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HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST
John J. Ray ^ | unknown | John J. Ray (M.A.; Ph.D.)

Posted on 05/27/2004 6:32:13 AM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican

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To: RedBloodedAmerican
I guess that's why they called it the Nationalist Socialist Workers Party, or in it's German acronym the N.A.Z.I. party.

Doh!

41 posted on 05/27/2004 8:01:41 AM PDT by jerod
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To: Old Sarge

JR
Since Jan 7, 1998


42 posted on 05/27/2004 8:02:19 AM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
If this attempts to equate Nazi-ism with Enviromentalism or Conservationism, than this is a bunch of B.S.

You can disagreee with Greenpeace as most people do, but come on...

43 posted on 05/27/2004 8:17:15 AM PDT by conserv13
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
Nice selective bit of the NSDAP Programme (manifesto). Here's the whole thing, and you can see how it was very palatable to the German people at the time, and some are things many of us would like today. But notice how much of it's as much nationalist as socialist.

1. We demand the union of all Germany in a Greater Germany on the basis of the right of national self-determination.

Good thing, except his definition of "Germany" was pretty big.

2. We demand equality of rights for the German people in its dealings with other nations, and the revocation of the peace treaties of Versailles and Saint-Germain.

This is a result of the Treaty of Versailles, which tried to drive the German people into proverty and make it a second-class nation. We had a much better idea with the Marshall plan after WWII.

3. We demand land and territory (colonies) to feed our people and to settle our surplus population.

Lebensraum!

4. Only members of the nation may be citizens of the State. Only those of German blood, whatever be their creed, may be members of the nation. Accordingly, no Jew may be a member of the nation.

Here's a nationalist, racist bit.

5. Non-citizens may live in Germany only as guests and must be subject to laws for aliens.

That's not so bad, good idea for today.

6. The right to vote on the State's government and legislation shall be enjoyed by the citizens of the State alone. We demand therefore that all official appointments, of whatever kind, whether in the Reich, in the states or in the smaller localities, shall be held by none but citizens. We oppose the corrupting parliamentary custom of filling posts merely in accordance with party considerations, and without reference to character or abilities.

The Democrats wouldn't understand the "only citizens vote or hold office" thing. I like the idea of appointing by ability rather than party affiliation, should be done here.

7. We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens. If it should prove impossible to feed the entire population, foreign nationals (non-citizens) must be deported from the Reich.

Ah, the socialism kicks in with a nationalist bent. Remember, this was a time when few had food.

8. All non-German immigration must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who entered Germany after 2 August 1914 shall be required to leave the Reich forthwith.

Bad idea, seriously stupid and nationalistic.

9. All citizens shall have equal rights and duties.

Okay, great thing.

10. It must be the first duty of every citizen to perform physical or mental work. The activities of the individual must not clash with the general interest, but must proceed within the framework of the community and be for the general good.

Seriously socialist.

We demand therefore:

11-17 are just outright communist land and economic demands.

18. We demand the ruthless prosecution of those whose activities are injurious to the common interest. Common criminals, usurers, profiteers, etc., must be punished with death, whatever their creed or race.

A bit severe, but he was definitely for law and order (as he saw it).

19. We demand that Roman Law, which serves a materialistic world order, be replaced by a German common law.

Good, we work under common law too.

20. The State must consider a thorough reconstruction of our national system of education (with the aim of opening up to every able and hard-working German the possibility of higher education and of thus obtaining advancement). The curricula of all educational establishments must be brought into line with the requirements of practical life. The aim of the school must be to give the pupil, beginning with the first sign of intelligence, a grasp of the nation of the State (through the study of civic affairs). We demand the education of gifted children of poor parents, whatever their class or occupation, at the expense of the State.

Education is important, good, but with indoctrination. Although free at tax expense is going socialist.

21. The State must ensure that the nation's health standards are raised by protecting mothers and infants, by prohibiting child labor, by promoting physical strength through legislation providing for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and by the extensive support of clubs engaged in the physical training of youth.

Except for the compulsory part, physical health is good, but this was in line with his creating a superior race thing.

22. We demand the abolition of the mercenary army and the foundation of a people's army.

Defeinitely a good idea.

23. We demand legal warfare on deliberate political mendacity and its dissemination in the press. To facilitate the creation of a German national press we demand:

What follows is the standard press controls you find in any communist state. Bad idea. Except the part about preventing foreign control of German newspapers has some merit.

24. We demand freedom for all religious denominations in the State, provided they do not threaten its existence not offend the moral feelings of the German race. The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not commit itself to any particular denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent health only from within on the basis of the principle: The common interest before self-interest.

Whoah, I thought everybody said the Nazis were godless! And here is pro-Christianity built right into their programme. But notice they are pro-Christian, but only so long as no church threatens the state. That's communist.

25. To put the whole of this programme into effect, we demand the creation of a strong central state power for the Reich; the unconditional authority of the political central Parliament over the entire Reich and its organizations; and the formation of Corporations based on estate and occupation for the purpose of carrying out the general legislation passed by the Reich in the various German states.

Standard tool of fascist or communists states.

So you see in the end the NSDAP was a nice mix of a totalitarian nationalist state with a whole bunch of socialism thrown in, and a bit of religion as well.

44 posted on 05/27/2004 8:22:13 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

Bookmarked and bumped for future reading.


45 posted on 05/27/2004 8:44:12 AM PDT by TBarnett34 (Go home, Cynthia McKinney!)
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

?


46 posted on 05/27/2004 8:55:36 AM PDT by Old Sarge (It's not Bush's fault - It's THE MEDIA'S fault!)
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

good read...


47 posted on 05/27/2004 9:42:04 AM PDT by jcb8199
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

The ghost of Hitler talks to Hillary disguesed as Eleanor Roosevelt.


48 posted on 05/27/2004 9:42:58 AM PDT by SpinyNorman (Kerry: the only man that can look like the front end of a horse while acting like the back end.)
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

Hitler a socialist? Who knew? This will be a major news item, I bet! Or oughta be! That makes all the difference in the world. Say goodbye to socialism in Sweden, North Korea and all those other places that never ever suspected this. Wow!


49 posted on 05/27/2004 9:45:08 AM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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To: conserv13
If this attempts to equate Nazi-ism with Enviromentalism or Conservationism, than this is a bunch of B.S.

"Equate?" Well, not entirely. But do they share important elements? Absolutely.

The key, which this article tends to dance around, is between whether rights and authority are seen to be individual or collective. The true political spectrum (meaning the one which reasonably describes reality) focuses on this issue. Socialists are well over to the 'all rights are collective' end, whether they call themselves Fascists, International Socialists, Communists, or National Socialists. The proof of that is in the overlapping self-definitions. All the words apply to all the forms of socialism, thus you get 'communists' who are self-described as 'international socialists' who are blatantly nationalist and therefore 'national socialists' who are now called 'fascists'.

The 'greens' or other hyper-environmentalists are also well over into the 'all rights and authorities are collective' end of the spectrum - believing that everyone should be controlled by some central authority's opinion of what is environmentally sound. Their priorities may vary between economic well-being for all (the claim of socialism) or 'sustainable economies', but the key is that they think the economy (and therefore all aspects of a citizen's life) need to be centrally controlled. Hayek laid that out with unassailable clarity. And of course, Lenin recognized that it is easier to take over a revolution than to start one - or by extension - that it is easier to take over a centrally controlled economy than to force those controls on people. Hence, the greens and socialists join forces until the control is established - each thinking that in the end their detail priorities will be used for the controls.
50 posted on 05/27/2004 10:40:32 AM PDT by Gorjus
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To: RedBloodedAmerican; ECM; Enterprise; CrazyIvan; randog; COEXERJ145; Old Sarge; sergeantdave; ...
Here's a good thumbnail synopsis (I picked this up off the Web some time ago):

If a leader were to arise -- a man who was a vegetarian; a radical environmentalist; a tea-drinking, nature worshiping, anti-smoking fanatic; a socialist; a proponent of abortion and of medical research utilizing fetal tissue; a man who would outlaw speech and ideas that he didn't approve of; an animal rights activist; a controversial artist and writer; a pagan who's harshest rhetoric was directed against Jews and Christians -- he could rise quickly to the leadership of the Green Party. Indeed, such a man would find few critics among Democrats, and would be welcomed by the faculty of most colleges. Such a man did once exist, and did become the leader of a modern nation only a few decades ago. That man was Adolph Hitler.

51 posted on 05/27/2004 11:05:49 AM PDT by SpyGuy
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To: SpyGuy

I'm going to have to register at DU just to post that on their site.


52 posted on 05/27/2004 11:16:09 AM PDT by stylin_geek (Koffi: 0, G.W. Bush: (I lost count))
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To: SpyGuy

Frightening. Could it happen?

Thank you, I'll save that one.


53 posted on 05/27/2004 11:17:13 AM PDT by Old Sarge (It's not Bush's fault - It's THE MEDIA'S fault!)
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To: SpyGuy
The problem with that sort of list is that the items NOT on the list may be as important. That Hitler was a socialist should be recognized by all. That 'such a man would find few critics among Democrats' ignores the issue of the characteristics not listed. Saying, 'That man was Adolph Hitler' denies those unlisted characteristics even exist. Those are false arguments in the same way that pointing at some wheels and a muffler and saying, 'that is a Mercedes 500SL' is false.

On the other hand, it's enough in my mind to recognize that he was indeed a socialist. Though a simple list begs the question, it is still a fact - as Hayek showed - that socialists inevitably become the monsters that Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao became. So the rest of the list - all of it, including the things not in your excerpt - follows from that one characteristic of being a socialist.
54 posted on 05/27/2004 11:21:12 AM PDT by Gorjus
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To: Gorjus
Yes, everyone should recognize Hitler was in fact a socialist.

However, how many times have you been in a discussion, tried to refute someone with facts, and been ignored or dismissed? The left in this country operates under the same mindset, aided and abetted by faux intellectualism that is passed off as critical thinking by our educational system.

55 posted on 05/27/2004 11:29:18 AM PDT by stylin_geek (Koffi: 0, G.W. Bush: (I lost count))
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To: Reeses

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If anything, conservatives should be represented as blue. That and blue is also my favorite color. ;-)


56 posted on 05/27/2004 11:32:38 AM PDT by David1
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To: Gorjus

Good point. Thanks


57 posted on 05/27/2004 11:40:20 AM PDT by conserv13
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

Theres no doubt that the Nazi Party was obviously very socialist during its growth in the 20's and early 30's. However, after coming to power, Hitler didn't want to upset the Conservative military and economic leaders of Germany. So this forced him to make the Nazis less socialist, hence the dissolving of the SA.


58 posted on 05/27/2004 1:14:38 PM PDT by Democratshavenobrains
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To: SpyGuy

Great synopsis, a keeper. Thanks!


59 posted on 05/27/2004 3:03:07 PM PDT by Enterprise
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To: SpyGuy
Yes, it really is shocking to tell a Lefty that. They just don't believe it.

Another neat thing about this paragraph that I've used with preachy vegetarians before when they try to beat you over the head with the morality of vegetarianism. I tell them "Hitler was a vegetarian and Jesus Christ ate meat". It kinda ruins their day.

60 posted on 05/27/2004 3:49:37 PM PDT by keithtoo (Please remove all Kerry-on luggage from your forehead compartments.)
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