Indians Trying to Save thier Reputation

NWCN King 5 | Pat McReynolds

[oceanperch]

Indians trying to save their reputation 10:42 PM PDT on Friday, June 11, 2004 By PAT McREYNOLDS / KING 5 News

TACOMA, Wash.
Native Americans are fighting back after federal agents raided 12 tribal smokeshops earlier this week. Shop owners didn't like their businesses being mentioned in the same sentence as Al-Qaeda.

Just as motorists cross into Tacoma on I-5, a new sign blinks in to view that says: "We are not terrorists. We are American Indians. We have been fighting terrorism since 1492." KING

"We are not terrorists. We are American Indians. We have been fighting terrorism since 1492." Patrons of the Emerald Queen Casino couldn't help but comment as they walked by. "I couldn't believe they put something like that up there," said one. "To me, it looks like an over-reaction," said another.

The owner of Lyle's Smokeshop authored the sign in response to a massive raid by customs agents earlier this week when they seized cash and thousands of cigarettes from 12 stores on the same day that the government announced a crackdown on cigarette smuggling and its ties to terrorism.

Those claims touched off a demonstration by smokeshop employees. David Turnipseed owns BJ's, another shop raided by federal agents.

"I think most people know that we're not terrorists. I think everybody knows that's a crock, that's just an excuse to get in the door," he said.

He even claims to have documents proving the cigarettes seized had already passed through customs. "It was bogus. It's a way in the backdoor to try and break the Native Americans," he continued.

Customs officials still have no comment on the raids, and even though many were put off by the message on the reader board, none of them felt their neighbors are funneling money to Al-Qaeda.

The sign is not owned by the casino and has nothing to do with it, and the message has done very little if anything to slow down Friday night business.

The raids took place on Tuesday and so far, customs agents have not charged any of the shops with a crime.

[senorita]

Read up on your history, we didn't even get to become citzens until 1924! Then we were finally allowed to vote in the 1940's. We've found a loophole in the laws and now that we are making big money, you guys can't stand it. All it takes is for fools to stop going to the casinos and handing us their money!

[datura]

You think the tribes are bad here????? Go to South Dakota where I was raised. These reservations are spotlessly clean, and hard to tell when you are in one versus the surrounding land. Back there, it's like going back a century in time - armed roadblocks collecting "taxes", people stringing up dogs on clotheslines and then beating them to death to tenderize the meat, straining rubbing alcohol through bread to keep from going blind from drinking it, 95% alcoholism and unemployment, and on and on.

Those tribes don't have casinos. They don't sell fireworks. They don't do anything but collect Social Security checks (no tribal funds to disperse). That's right - Social Security payments for LIFE starting at age 18. Plus free education up through the PhD level - but none make it that far. Free housing FOR LIFE. Many free food items FOR LIFE. Free health care FOR LIFE. These things are all paid for by our tax dollars. It makes me sick. But don't bitch about the tribes here - at least they've crawled out of the bottle to some extent.

BTW: I'm Cherokee. I'm not about to allow any tribe to get away with being assholes. Mine, or any other for that matter. I've lived here in WA for 18 years. The tribes here are virtually nonexistent.

[cyborg]

I love anyone with a good hustle that screws the government. The politicians have no interest in tribal people except for THEIR MONEY.

[gitmo]

We established these sovereign nations as part of our treaties with these people. It would be wrong to reneg on yet another agreement.

There is a giant arrowhead in Old Fort, NC. It was erected to commemorate a treaty. It marked the western-most point that white men would settle on the continent.

But your post is complaining that the Indian businesses aren't being saddled with the same ornerous government restrictions and burdens that other businesses are. I think we should be (a)glad that someone is getting a bit of a fair break and (b) fighting these restrictions for everyone. I think if we forced the government to adhere to the Constitution, 75%-80% of the laws and regulations on the books would be summarily tossed out.

[Carry_Okie]

Our state has been sold down the river and if we don't get it back soon, just get ready to say "How" when visiting Washington. These people are not stupid. They have learned they can get it all, and probaby feel it is justified. But the real culprits are the so-called "elected representatives" who have brokered these massive schemes. BTW The tribes, I have been told, are currently looking into gas stations. Again, NOT paying tax to the state. This so-called "(dependant) "sovereign nation" is truly becoming a HUGE state within a state to the detriment of the citizens of Washington State. And is coming to your town if you don't say no. LOL The Indians may end up with all the land back, after all.

How right you are, and it isn't just some kind of accident.

Commission on Global Governance

GOVERNANCE AND DEMOCRACY
EMPOWERMENT FOR THE NEW MILLENNIUM

SIR SHRIDATH RAMPHAL

at the
Olof Palme International Foundation's Seminar Governance at the End of the Millennium Barcelona, Spain
26 February 1999

This new vigour of civil society both reflects and enhances a large increase in the capacity and will of people to take control of their own lives and to improve or transform them. The number and proportion of people who can make their voices heard is nevertheless vastly greater in all parts of the world today than, say, 50 years ago, in 1945. This is principally the product of decolonization, economic improvement, and the spread of democracy. Beyond elections, however, people are beginning to assert their right to actively participate in their own governance. They include indigenous peoples long deprived by settlers of control over traditional lands, ethnic minorities seeking a role in government, and regional and local groups who feel their interests have been neglected by national leaders. These groups have all become more effective in asserting their rights.

Our Global Neighbourhood
The Report of the Commission on Global Governance

Chapter Two -- Values for the Global Neighbourhood

http://www.cgg-ch.ae.psiweb.com/chap2.html

Self- Determination

The second core principle of the existing international order is self- determination. Not as venerable as sovereignty, it derives from the rise of democracy and the national idea, both of which contributed to the consolidation of divided European principalities into modern nation- states, the collapse of European empires in the Americas, and the breakup of the Habsburg and Ottoman empires.

The Versailles Peace Conference after World War I recognized the principle of self- determination, but it was not until the founding of the United Nations in 1945 that it became an effective norm equally applicable world- wide. Throughout the post- war era, self- determination was generally viewed as a right limited to territorially defined populations living under colonial rule. As such, it played a crucial role in the process of decolonization that has brought a succession of new sovereign states into being.

During the past decade, two kinds of developments have occurred that have forced the world to re- examine the issue of self- determination. The first was the breakup of countries, the two most dramatic being the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia. Both were multinational federations that had been held together by iron- fisted central governments. With the political cataclysms of the early 1990s, these governments lost both their legitimacy and their power--and the constituent national units were able to become independent states. Similar, albeit much more peaceful, negotiated separations occurred in Czechoslovakia and in Ethiopia, where there had earlier been a protracted conflict. While the violent and unsettling consequences of the Soviet and Yugoslav breakups have raised serious concerns about the exercise of the right of self- determination, it is arguable whether they involve any new issues of principle.

A much more far- reaching development is the growing assertion of a right to self- determination by indigenous populations and other communities in many parts of the world. In these cases, self- determination involves a complex chain of historical and other questions that go far beyond the issue of establishing a new state on the basis of a pre- existing territorial entity. Issues of identity, human rights, and empowerment that have little to do with previous boundaries are also involved.

Self- determination is a right of all nations and peoples, as long as it is consistent with respect for other nations and peoples. The challenge now is to find ways to define and protect this right in the environment of the global neighbourhood. It is becoming ever more difficult to resolve the problems raised by competing claims to self- determination on the basis of separate nationhood for each claimant. A process of territorial dismemberment could be set in motion that would leave much of the world far worse off and would greatly increase insecurity and instability. Moreover, redrawing maps will not succeed in reducing injustice and the risks of civil strife if the new states still lack workable formulas to reconcile conflicting claims to authority, resources, status, or land.

The problem is not made easier by the absence of any clear definition of what constitutes 'a people' or 'a nation'. It is time to begin to think about self- determination in a new context--the emerging context of a global neighbourhood rather than the traditional context of a world of separate states.

The demand for separation and the resort to violence in support of it often follow the frustration of constitutional efforts to secure less drastic changes. This points to the importance of governments being sensitive to the aspirations of ethnic or other groups that feel alienated or threatened. Most of the nearly 200 nation- states in the world consist of more than one ethnic group. There is consequently considerable scope for discord and conflict over the sharing of resources and authority and the policies that governments follow. But there is also a positive side to pluralism as manifest in several successful multiethnic states. Diversity need not become a cause for division. A challenge to governance is to make it a source of enrichment.

If tragedies are not to be multiplied one- hundredfold, concern for the interests of all citizens, of whatever racial, tribal, religious, or other affiliation, must be high among the values informing the conduct of people in the world that has now become a neigh-bourhood. There must be respect for their rights, in particular for their right to lead lives of dignity, to preserve their culture, to share equitably in the fruits of national growth, and to play their part in the governance of the country. Peace and stability in many parts of the world could be endangered if these values are neglected. The world community needs to strengthen protection of these rights, even as it discourages the urge to secede that their frustration can breed. Governance in the global neighbourhood faces no stronger challenge.

[Libertina]

Since I don't know you, I don't know why you would use the word "always." If you read the posts I believe you would see, if you are not blinded with emotion, that it is not an "against the Indian thing" it is an "against unfair business competition argument" and agianst a "two-nation thing."

I have already stated that these "special rights: are NOT granted by law, but by out of control officals - not even by our legislature. Perhaps the authorities were after drugs, so are you saying those are special rights too?

[Carry_Okie]

These "special rights" that you decry are granted through treaty, not bribery.

No, they are granted by Federal judges making twisted interpretations of treaties.

[Libertina]

If you read the posts, you would see it was a power grab to get campaign money for the dems, not about taxes. The grab is actually DECREASING the tax base by taking more business OFF the rolls. If you cannot read the posts we cannot have a discussion. Again, this issue is so filled with emotion about historical injustice that people cannot reason.

[senorita]

Consider your ASS kissed! We are not all uneducated, poor and living in filth as you pointed out in your emotional tirade.
I consider myself as American and possibly more American than you. You have presented yourself as a bigot and a whiner. That's not what this forum is about!

[Libertina]

Fine with me. Let's go for it.

[Vigilantcitizen]

The Indians are being charged with smuggling in cigarettes from overseas. etc.

They haven't been charged yet, according to the article.

The raids took place on Tuesday and so far, customs agents have not charged any of the shops with a crime.

[Cultural Jihad]

Here's some more insight:

---

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other." -John Adams, Oct. 11, 1798 Address to the military

---

[datura]

You talk about being blinded by emotion? Listen to yourself becoming more and more shrill. I've been on tribal issues threads with you in the past - and this one is no different.

The main point of my comment is that we don't know all the facts yet about this case, yet you are ready to reneg on treaties that are over a century old because the tribes aren't getting screwed the same as the rest of Pierce County. (Where I live as well.) It's not the tribes fault. Whose fault is it for voting the RATS into office? The tribes??? NOT.

And don't put words in my mouth, Libertina. I merely suggested that these smoke shops were being raided for reasons other than what we've been told so far. For you to insinuate anything beyond that is slanderous.

[Libertina]

A singular voice of reason. Funny, conservatives who would decry any two-tiered system get all wound up in philosophic pretzels when the word Indian is in the conversation. When I specifically said that these particular tribes are getting privileges ABOVE the treaty rights, some emotional posters type "but they are just treaty rights." It's as if they have all gone deaf...

[Libertina]

Well I agree about regulation - too much. But I doubt you actually believe NO taxes should be paid and that Indians should be able to ignore all laws until we get it all sorted out. If you are saying that, I will have to disagree.

[datura]

If they are indeed above the treaty rights, then you are 100% correct. Not having the treaties in front of me to compare with reality any more than you do makes this all conjecture.

I highly doubt that consumption of tobacco products in a restaurant was considered important so long ago. Fishing and hunting, as well as shooting at each other was probably more on the minds of both sides.

[Libertina]

The playing field is quite uneven and the Skins continually grease the libs/dems hands at an alarming rate to keep it that way
Absolutely correct. This is the real argument, not an Indian vs. Americans problem. But some posters here are so emotional they can't even read the psots.

[Libertina]

Settle down, datura. You are the shrill one. Sorry there are incovenient facts about a two-tiered, illegal system of taxes and business regulations her in WA. Somehow, you'll have to deal with it as you pretzel yourself into a hissy about historical injustice, thereby ignoring the point of the thread.

[Batrachian]

The original article says nothing about campaign contributions. I don't really care about historical injustice, except academically. I do care about the greed of government for more tax dollars.

What is it that you want done? Make the Indians "just like everyone else"? I told you, get your elected representative to sponsor legislation to do that. Their status is the result of treaties between them and the federal government. The state can't simply tear up those treaties because they want more revenue. That's the real issue here. The state sees a potential windfall and is moving to grab it.

If they tried the same thing with the churches you'd be up in arms about it, and rightfully so, but because it's the Indians, whom you don't seem to like very much, you take the government's side. Your conservative ideals are taking a backseat to your personal feelings towards those people.