Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Painting Sold At Church Auction Sells Again For $489,600 (pressured to donate part to Church)
WNNE ^ | June 18, 2004

Posted on 06/19/2004 11:46:35 PM PDT by Michael2001

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-58 next last
To: Michael2001

If I hadn't been on the committee and hadn't been in charge of getting paintings for the auction then I wouldn't donate one penny of my profit to the Church. If anything I'd find another Church and donate to them since they're not attempting to bully me into it.

But this guy's behavior smacks of fraud. I wouldn't have a clue that some ugly painting like that is worth anything. Investment? They *had* to believe it was worth more than the few thousand they were willing to spend. This "case" demands a proper investigation.


21 posted on 06/20/2004 1:08:40 AM PDT by newzjunkey (No more Floridas: Can "W" actually win this thing outright?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Michael2001

You know...this group made a donation to God and God blesses it by returning a blessing over 100 fold. They should just tithe it to get down to 320 thousand just to shut them up! Better yet...they owe them nothing!


22 posted on 06/20/2004 1:55:16 AM PDT by mdmathis6 (The Democrats must be defeated in 2004)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BooBoo1000
I would be surprised if they gave much back. However, if the buyers are members of the church and follow the Bible, they would be obligated to donate 10 per cent of the profit.
This probably won't happen given the attitude of the community.
23 posted on 06/20/2004 2:48:14 AM PDT by gakrak
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Michael2001
Motives aside, in order to come up with a figure, this question needs to be answered:

A man makes $100,000 in a year.
He pays 30% tax.

What figure does he put down on his celestial form 1040 as his tithe, $10,000 or $7,000?
24 posted on 06/20/2004 2:50:22 AM PDT by Lokibob (All typos and spelling errors are mine and copyrighted!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Michael2001
And does anybody believe that if the painting turned out to be worth only $200 that the church would come across with a refund?

It's usually "Buyer Beware" but the seller should know what they're doing and not complain about it later.The fact that it's a church is meaningless.

25 posted on 06/20/2004 3:34:30 AM PDT by muir_redwoods
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: newzjunkey
Why did a "group" bid on the painting? Answer: because they wanted to make sure they got the painting.

Why did they want to make sure they got the painting? Answer: Because they knew it was valuable.

Why did they send it to Sotheby's? Answer: Because they knew it was valuable and they needed a large art-specialty auction house to validate it's worth and get the highest bid.

Seems like fraud to me. If the guy had bought the painting by himself and held it for a couple of years, I would think differently. But his inside position, coupled with assembling a group of friends, and the almost immediate re-sale through Sotheby's, pretty much seals the deal as far as I am concerned.

I would be interested in how Hale was persuaded to part with the painting. I bet there was some chicanery there, too, since the family had owned it for 100 years.

26 posted on 06/20/2004 3:44:44 AM PDT by Miss Marple
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: opinionator

Yup, O'Connor should have apprised the former owners of the painting's true value...at the very least the Hale family would have a huge charitable tax deduction.


27 posted on 06/20/2004 3:53:07 AM PDT by hershey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: opinionator

I agree with you. I think this guy was in charge of soliciting the donations, knew the painting was valuable, did nothing to inform the donator or the church so they could get the best price for it, bought the thing himself and has now made a tidy profit.

He should not be forced to give a donation, but he certainly should be ashamed of himself.

Different story if the purchaser just got lucky and picked up an unknown gem of a piece that was worth a bundle.

Regards,


28 posted on 06/20/2004 4:02:11 AM PDT by VermiciousKnid
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: VermiciousKnid

Yes, if he had been interested in getting the best price for the *church*, he could have suggested bypassing the church auction and taking the painting straight to Sotheby's (where they are also happy to give appraisals). Instead, it stays in the church auction so he and his friends can aquire it. Hmmm...

This isn't Antiques Roadshow, folks. I doubt O'Connor and his buddies were shocked at the price they got at auction.


29 posted on 06/20/2004 4:16:06 AM PDT by hellinahandcart
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: BJungNan

Somewhat akin to insider trading. I wonder if they consulted Martha Stewart about this investment opportunity????


30 posted on 06/20/2004 4:26:27 AM PDT by TheBattman (Leadership = http://www.georgewbush.com/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: opinionator
Sounds like fraud ? It is fraud...and beyond that ...What kind of Christian is he? This auction was supposedly for the benefit of the church...his church... sure no one can force him to donate a penny ,but if he were truly Christian he would know the money did not belong to him and it would be his desire to give the money to the church ...all the profit should go to the church... but my guess is he and his buddy are not Christian... I wonder what denomination this church is?
31 posted on 06/20/2004 4:41:45 AM PDT by mariejlt (I hate abusers!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: formerDem
...and no one in his group knew its real value before buying it.

Hmmmmmmmm.
Shades of William Jefferson C.!

Note the carefully chosen words. He neglected (on purpose) to say that no one in his group knew its real value before auctioning it; which leads me to believe...
Go back and read post #16.

32 posted on 06/20/2004 4:52:57 AM PDT by Publius6961 (I don't do diplomacy either.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: giotto

My question is: Are O'Connor, and his friends, professional auctioneers? If they are, then they had a responsibility to ascertain the true value of the painting. But if they were just members of the church and of the auction committee, I think they owe nothing.

If it turned out that the painting was worth say $200.00 would the church refund $3000.00? I think not.



33 posted on 06/20/2004 5:52:02 AM PDT by chainsaw (http://www.hanoi-john.org.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Michael2001
"Judge not, that you be not judged" Matthew 7:1

Boy, there sure are a lot of judges on this thread.

No none here knows the hearts of any of the parties to this event.

No one knows the true circumstances of this event, only what is reported by a reporter that very well may have gotten the facts wrong (naw, that don't ever happen does it?)

Yet, look at all the condemnation.

34 posted on 06/20/2004 5:52:51 AM PDT by FReepaholic (War On Terror: If not us, who? If not now, when?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lokibob
A man makes $100,000 in a year. He pays 30% tax.

What figure does he put down on his celestial form 1040 as his tithe, $10,000 or $7,000?

What about for the employer contributions for health care, SSN, and so forth? Retirement investments could be considered deferred.

35 posted on 06/20/2004 6:10:02 AM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Lokibob

On another note, recall Samuels citation of one of the curses of having a king: He'd be so audacious as to claim 10% in taxes.


36 posted on 06/20/2004 6:11:44 AM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Michael2001

The Lord loves a cheerful giver. It's not like He's short of cash.


37 posted on 06/20/2004 6:12:15 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Joe Hadenuf

The 3 buyers knew that they were buying something special. More than likely they saw it at a preview, got together some money and went after it at auction. It happens all the time. We attend auctions irregularly. Many of these antique buyers go to yard sales and come up with unbelievable things. The seller has no clue that the ugly vase from a dead aunts apartment could be worth thousands when they put that $25. sticker on it. This is a lesson for anyone clearing out attics and basements of deceased grandparents and others. When in doubt have the stuff appraised. It will cost a bit but not as much as this "find" in NH.


38 posted on 06/20/2004 6:17:51 AM PDT by oldironsides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: chainsaw
It's irrelevant whether they were auctioneers. Here is the crucial point: The owner of the painting donated it to the church for the auction. He was led to believe that the church would benefit from its considerable value. O'Connor was in a privileged position in that he was representing the church. He abused that privilege and the fiduciary duty he had toward the church. That duty included getting the painting properly appraised and then apprising the church of the painting's value.
39 posted on 06/20/2004 6:19:35 AM PDT by giotto
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Michael2001

Nothing I buy at yard sales ever turns out to be the lost third of a 14th-century triptych painted by an unknown Sienese artist that sells for $489,600.

My wife usually just makes me put it in the storage shed.


40 posted on 06/20/2004 6:22:37 AM PDT by Skooz (My Biography: Psalm 40:1-3)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-58 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson