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RED ALERT: Socialist agenda being pushed through the California Legislature

Posted on 06/20/2004 10:15:39 PM PDT by farmfriend

Socialist agenda being pushed through the California Legislature.

ALERT:Hearing scheduled for Sierra Nevada Conservancy bills 6/29/04

AB 2600 (Laird)

SUMMARY : Creates within the Resources Agency the Sierra Nevada Conservancy (Conservancy) to acquire and manage land for various specified public objectives, and to make grants for those purposes, in the Sierra Nevada-Cascade Mountain Region.

AB 1788 (Leslie)

SUMMARY : Creates within the Resources Agency the Sierra Nevada Conservancy (Conservancy) to acquire and manage land for various specified public objectives, and to make grants for those purposes, in the Sierra Nevada Region.

AB 2631 (Wolk)

SUMMARY : Establishes an interagency council (more government bureaucracy) to consider ways to coordinate state efforts to eradicate and control invasive species.


Analysis from the Assembly on AB 2600:

FISCAL EFFECT : According to the Assembly Appropriations Committee analysis:

1.Moderate ongoing costs, about $300,000 annually starting in fiscal year (FY) 2005-06, to the Resources Agency to provide staff and other resources to the Conservancy, payable from the General Fund (GF), Environmental License Plate Fund, Proposition 50 bond proceeds, or some combination thereof.

2.Substantial cost pressures, in the range of $5 million to $10 million annually starting in FY 2005-06, to fund the acquisition of public lands with the Conservancy's jurisdiction, payable from the GF, Proposition 50 bond proceeds, or a future resources bond measure.

They will fund through General Fund support, statewide propositions and other sources.
This scary document outlines the enormous amount of money the conservancy will request, and some ideas about how to get it.

COMMENTS : Pursuant to enactments going back to 1933, with the creation of the Wildlife Conservation Board, the Legislature has recognized the utility of multi-agency entities for land conservation. Since 1973, the Legislature has created eight conservancies in specified areas of the state having similar or related resource conservation objectives. According to the Legislative Analyst's report California's Land Conservation Efforts: The Role of State Conservancies, "Generally, state conservancies are most effective where specific land resources of extraordinary, unique value to the entire state are found to be inadequately protected..." [page 13; emphasis in original].

The Sierra Nevada is a large, distinct region of the state, in terms of its geology, plant communities, wildlife, and climate zones. Its rich natural resources and wide range of recreational opportunities qualifies it as a specific geographic area of exceptional statewide, and arguably global, importance and therefore is, by the Legislative Analyst's criteria, appropriate for protection by a multi-agency conservancy.

According to the Sierra Nevada Conservancy Working Group's July 2002 report, "Sierra Nevada Resource Investment Needs Assessment," the Sierra Nevada supplies 60% of California's water, but 23 of its 24 watersheds are impaired; population is projected to triple between 1990 and 2040 and the accompanying residential development increasingly threatens farms and other working landscapes; annual recreational visit-days are now about 50 million, a 75% increase in the past 15 years; and the region's overall economy is changing rapidly from resource extraction and development to business activities that serve or employ increasing numbers of recreational visitors and retirees and other migrants from areas outside the region.

According to Governor Schwarzenegger's Action Plan for California's Environment" ( www.joinarnold.com/en/agenda ), "The Sierra Nevada Mountain Range [sic] is one of the state's crown jewels. Yet, unlike many of California's other natural treasures, it has no conservancy. As Governor I will propose establishment of a Sierra Nevada Mountains [sic] Conservancy." ,P>

AB 1788 (Leslie) also proposes to create a Sierra Nevada Conservancy. AB 2600 differs from AB 1788 in the following principal respects:

a) AB 2600 defines the western boundary of the Sierra Nevada Region as extending down to about the 500-foot elevation contour, which include small portions of the extreme eastern side of the Central Valley. This western boundary encompasses major lakes and reservoirs and long reaches of the Sierra rivers as they descend through the mountains to the valley floor. The region defined in AB 1788 includes large portions of the eastern portions of the Central Valley and, in Tehama, Fresno, and Kern Counties, it extends across the valley into the Coast Range. The core region defined in AB 1788, where presumably the Conservancy's activities will be concentrated, is significantly smaller than the region defined in AB 2600. In particular, because AB 1788 uses the 1,500-foot elevation contour as the western boundary of the core region, long reaches of the deep canyons of the principal rivers of the Sierra and many lakes and reservoirs situated below that elevation are excluded from the core region;

b) On the governing board proposed in AB 2600, two members are state officials and five are appointees from the general public. On the governing board proposed in AB 1788, 13 of the 20 voting members are supervisors from Sierra counties or residents of the core region. The difference in composition can in part be attributed to whether the Conservancy is perceived as having regional or statewide significance;

c) AB 2600 requires its Conservancy board to act by a simple majority of the total appointed membership, that is, by four of the seven voting members. AB 1788 requires that the Conservancy's executive director be approved by at least 2/3 of the governing board, that is, by 14 of the 20 voting members;

d) AB 2600 requires the Conservancy to cooperate and consult with affected local governments and to base its project priorities on local general plans and recreation plans. AB 1788 instead prohibits the Conservancy from acquiring any property interest or making a grant for that purpose unless it documents the proposed use, management, and financing of management costs of the acquired property. Somewhat inconsistently, AB 1788 makes Conservancy projects and grants subject to all general and specific plans of local governments, which would not necessarily anticipate the management needs of the property to be acquired;

e) AB 2600 has no specific provisions regarding water management and water rights. AB 1788 has detailed provisions, based on the San Gabriel and Lower Los Angeles Rivers and Mountains Conservancy's statute, governing water management and water rights;

f) AB 1788 authorizes the Resources Secretary to resolve any dispute over jurisdiction between the Conservancy and other conservancies. AB 2600 has no comparable provision; and,

g) AB 2600 will become operative on January 1, 2005. AB 1788 does not become operative until the Legislature appropriates funds to carry out the bill or until a bond act is approved that includes an allocation of funds for the purposes of the bill.


Analysis from the legislature itself on AB 2631:

FISCAL EFFECT : Establishes a new state agency with a number of duties and responsibilities to be carried out all over the state. This bill does not identify any source of funding, except what the Legislature may appropriate in the future. There will be a considerable cost to the state of carrying out all the activities and responsibilities addressed in this bill. Presumably, existing programs would be folded into the Council's program, so the funding for those programs could be transferred to the Council, but the scope of the Council's responsibilities as set forth in this bill exceeds the scope of the collective efforts of all the existing agencies and programs.

COMMENTS : This bill apparently arose out of a workshop convened by the Nature Conservancy in January 2003. Participating in the workshop were state and federal officials, universities, industry associations, and non-governmental organizations. The workshop participants came to consensus that there needs to be more efficient coordination of existing activities, as well as a statewide strategy for addressing terrestrial, aquatic, and marine invasive species.

There is a vast number of plant, animal, bird, fish, insect, microbial, and other species that have been either deliberately or unintentionally introduced into California. Most of these non-native species are benign and have brought great benefits to the inhabitants of the state. Most ornamental plants, for instance, are introduced, as well as pets, livestock, game fish, some wildlife, crops, grape vines, fruit trees, forage grasses, etc. Some non-native species, on the other hand, are highly detrimental to the environment, including yellow star-thistle, Zebra mussels, Chinese mitten crabs, pine bark beetles, West Nile Virus, Exotic Newcastle disease, Caulerpa taxifolia, Giant Reed (Arundo donax), tamarisk (saltcedar), Mediterranean fruitfly, and others. A U.S. Environmental Protection Agency report estimates that a new non-native species is introduced into San Francisco Bay from the ballast water of cargo ships every 14 weeks.

The author acknowledges that California has several strong pest prevention and eradication programs. As well, California has a number of committees, interagency panels, and ad hoc working groups that address individual invasive species and threats. The federal government, as well, has many programs to control the interstate or international transportation of invasive species. Although many of these programs have been highly successful, the thesis of this bill is that more could be accomplished if all the efforts of all these groups were coordinated and a statewide strategy adopted. The author argues that the various agencies and other interested groups need to consolidate their joint authorities and coordinate their efforts and their funds.

This bill, however, goes much farther. It authorizes the Council to identify, list, and classify all non-native species in the state. The Council would then be authorized to establish programs to control and eradicate detrimental species. Finally, the Council would be authorized to restore native species that have been crowded out.

As originally introduced, this bill created a vast regulatory, permitting, and enforcement program. This bill has been substantially reduced in scope, but still creates a major new state program. Interested groups have participated in working groups that have re-written much of this bill, but many still have significant concerns.

A major concern is the funding for the program proposed in this bill. Although the funding for all the existing programs would presumably be rolled into funding for the Council, the Council is charged with many powers and duties that go well beyond the powers and duties of the existing agencies and departments. Additional funding would be needed, and probably could not entirely be supported by permit fees. The additional funding would need to come from the General Fund.

Although the underlying idea of better coordinating state (and federal) efforts to fight invasive species and developing a statewide strategy is a good one, this bill goes far beyond that goal. To carry out all the requirements of this bill would require a large bureaucratic structure with a full-time professional staff.


An Analysis of Arnold Schwarzenegger's Environmental Policy

A Sierra umbrella? - Conservancy proposed to protect mountain range

CA freepers, RED ALERT RED ALERT!!!

CA freepers, RED ALERT Thread 2

CA: Sierra Conservancy bills seek funding for range

Socialist who are pushing this legislation.


Newsletter for the California Association of Business, Property and Resource Owners (CABPRO)
Volume 10, Number 3 - April, 2004
Page 5

Sierra Nevada Conservancy

State legislation has been introduced to again attempt to create a Sierra Nevada Conservancy. Two bills are now pending in the State Assembly, with a hearing on both set for April 19 in Sacramento with the Assembly Natural Resources Committee. Assemblyman Tim Leslie (R-Tahoe City) introduced AB 1788 on January 5.

Assemblyman John Laird (DSanta Cruz) introduced AB 2600 on February 20. Both bills establish a new state agency known as the Sierra Nevada Conservancy, covering numerous counties but excluding the Lake Tahoe region (it already has a conservancy). The Conservancy would have powers to acquire private land or interests.

In AB 1788, the Conservancy’s operations would be funded either as part of the State Budget or as bond acts allocate monies. In AB 2600, $30 million from Prop 50 would be its funding source. Another notable difference between the two bills is that AB 1788 requires "a resolution in support of that acquisition and the land management plan applicable to the acquisition has been approved by the county or city that exercises general planning authority and jurisdiction over that parcel." (Section 33351 (c)) CABPRO asked for that when the first Sierra Nevada Conservancy bill was working its way through Sacramento in 2002! However, AB 2600 does not seek support from the local jurisdiction. There are other differences as well. These differences will be presented in the next issue of our newsletter.

Partly as a result of increasing acquisitions for open space and other preservation purposes, Field Director Pat Davison has written a discussion draft supporting property tax reimbursement back to the counties when these private parcels or development rights are taken off the tax rolls. The concept entails adding an additional amount onto the purchase price that represents a one-time lump sum to be given to the affected county.

Although the federal government has a program in place to "pay" counties an amount per acre of federal lands (i.e. PILT = Payment In Lieu of Taxes), the state has no such program. So when expansion of Donner State Park or South Yuba State Park occurs, the state pays the property owner for the land but there is no payment or consideration given to the county that had previously received property tax income from the land.

Some opposition to that concept has arisen, based on the potential that the neighboring property tax value increases because the adjacent property now abuts open space.

No quantification of that potential increase has been done in Nevada County. Also, the suggestion that increased tourism, and more tax revenue, will result from more open space has not been quantified at the local level either.

Your CABPRO Board will be discussing our position on both Conservancy bills and the "property tax reimbursement" concept at future meetings.

Contact the office if you want a copy of the "property tax reimbursement" discussion draft, or download it from our website.


Supes say no Nature Conservancy
Apr 19, 2004
By Ami Ridling, Staff Writer
Plumas County news on-line

Does the Sierra Nevada region need a state-mandated conservancy to direct the management of, and hold the power to conserve, public lands? The Plumas County Board of Supervisors does not think so, and they will do everything in their power to stop a conservancy from forming.

Two controversial bills, AB1788, authored by Republican Assemblyman Tim Leslie, and AB 2600, authored by Democrat Assemblyman John Laird, are currently making their way through the legislature. If one or both are passed, the Sierra Nevada Conservancy will be born.

At their April 13 meeting, the supervisors voted in favor of writing a letter opposing the two bills to the state.

"These (conservancy) groups are our enemy," said Supervisor Bill Dennison. He said the bills would impose on private property owners' rights.

Supervisor Robert Meacher suggested that Dennison, who will write and send the letter of opposition, be careful with the words he uses in his message. He said that "tact" is necessary in this situation, especially since Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger himself has fueled the bills.

AB 1788 and AB 2600 are similar. The main differences in the two bills are that AB 2600 would not allow for local representation on the Sierra Nevada Conservancy governing board. AB1788, however, calls for two supervisors from each of the five Sierra Nevada subregions, to sit on the governing board.

For more on this story, along with other local stories and features, please see this week's printed newspaper. To subscribe, use the form on this Web site or call 530-283-0800.


Los Angeles Times
June 5, 2004
EDITORIAL: A Jewel Worth Protecting

When Arnold Schwarzenegger campaigned for governor last fall, he called the Sierra Nevada "one of the state's crown jewels" and said that if he was elected he would support establishment of a Sierra Nevada conservancy. The Sierra deserves all superlatives, but it is an asset under stress. The governor should fulfill his promise this year.

The Assembly has passed AB 2600 by Assemblyman John Laird (D-Santa Cruz) to create a Sierra conservancy within the state Resources Agency. It would be similar to eight other such groups established by the Legislature since 1973, including the Santa Monica Mountains, the Coastal and the Lake Tahoe conservancies. These organizations identify and work to conserve wildlife habitat, watersheds, historic and cultural areas and open space. They may use state bond funds or grants from nonprofit foundations to purchase prime private lands threatened by development.

(snip)

The natural resources that make the region so attractive to both new residents and new businesses need protection. Too many areas, including the Mammoth Lakes region, could succumb to the syndrome of "loving it to death," awaking too late to the need for regional planning and protection of resources.

Both the Laird and Leslie bills passed and went to the Senate, which should work out an acceptable compromise on the issue of local participation. Then the governor could sign the legislation in a ceremony beside a sparkling creek and meadow abutting lofty spires of Sierra granite. Everyone could proclaim victory.


Government land by state
All values are in thousands (000's) of acres except %'s.

California - Total area of the state 99,822.70
Total Area Owned by State and Federal Gov'ts 52,085.90
% of State's Total Area 52.1%
Owned by Federal Gov't. 49,842.30
% of State's Tot. Area 49.9%
Owned by State 2,243.60
% of State's Tot. Area 2.2%


The following information was taken from a new publication entitled "Managing Federal Forests in the 21st Century" and published by American Forest & Paper Association, Washington DC 20036. The following facts can be and should be shared with co-workers, your family and your neighbors. It's high time for us in the timber industry to educate people about the importance of our forests and how public policy is threatening our very livelihood.

How much land is forested in the U.S.?
About a third. The total U.S. land area is more than 2 billion acres. Forested acres in the U.S. total 747 million acres. 192 million of them are in the National Forest System.

Who owns America's forests?
Federal, state and local government agencies own 37%. The forest product industry owns 9%. The remaining 54% of America's forests are owned by private citizens.

Are all National Forest System lands available for timber harvesting?
No. 75% of our national forest system is intentionally set aside for non-commercial uses and is not managed for timber or other resource production.

Is tree growth outpacing timber harvesting in the U.S.?
Yes. In 1996, the last year for which complete figures are available, net forest growth exceeded harvest in every region of the U.S.

What is the greatest threat to federal forests?
Disease, insect infestations and catatsrophic wildfire exacerbated by conflicting policies and mandates and frivolous lawsuits brought by several national environmental groups paralyzing federal land managers.

Who should be concerned about the forest health crisis on public lands?
Every American. It is not just people who live in and around national forests who are at risk. Recreational opportunities for all of us are threatened, wildlife habitat is threatened and whether they realize it or not, every American depends on the forests for clean drinking water and clean air.


My letter to the editor of the Sacramento Bee.

I read the article on the next round of the poisoning of Lake Davis (Lake Davis on hook again, May 31, 2004) dreading what it portends for the rest of the state. This will soon be the standard.

AB 2631 is an invasive species bill that has passed the Assembly and is now in the Senate. The intent is to go after mitten crabs and star thistle. The implications are much worse.

Are we going to go after barred owls that are displacing the spotted owl? How about the wild horses roaming the arid areas? Are we going to change our policy on coho salmon? Archeology shows these fish are not native to CA. What about all those eucalyptus trees? Shall we cut them all?

And the budget! How is the creation of a whole new bureaucracy going to effect that?

And to those who think that the ESA took their property rights away, wait until you can’t build that dream house or plow that field or graze those cattle because they want to promote some native grass, endangered or not.


Find your State Senator here.


Here is a short list of the issues with the sierra conservancy.

1. It puts all private property under control of an unelected body.
2.More than 90% of the land in some counties is owned by the state or federal government. More government control will restrict economic use of private property and likely bankrupt small counties.
3. The board members are appointed, and do not answer to the public and cannot be voted out of office if they harm individual property owners.
4. The conservancy effective merges 20 counties which is unconstitutional-- only the legislature and a vote by citizens can alter county lines.
5. Merging counties and putting control over private land under an unelected board is not only unconsitutional, it mimics the failed system of the soviet union-- this comment was made by an aide to Assemblyman Leslie.
6. The board would be able to redraw parcel boundaries and change property lines taking away constitutional protections for the landowner and changing our system of government from a constitutional government to one by fiat.
7. The conservancy can buy and sell property like a real estate agent. They can buy property and give it to other conservancies, whether or not the public agrees with the policies of that conservancy or their politics-- the public has no say.
8. The conservancy will control economic use of private property through their "working lands" program.
9. The land owner only has 45 days to respond to the conservancy, if the conservancy has indicate that their property is desired for the conservancy.
10. The conservancy will set up a duplicate water quality management program wasting tax money and making the government unnavigatable by the average citizen. If you have a problem or complaint, which bureacracy do you go to? Why is another bureacracy necessary?
11. The conservancy will require $30 million out of the genreral fund just to get started. This from a state that was insovlent a few months ago and requiered a $15 billion bond from a governor who promised "no new taxes".
12. The conservancy will have its own bank account and own portfolio, making it immune from budgeting and cost reduction strategies guaranteed by our constituion.
13. The government should not be able to use taxpayer money to fund a group that will take public lands away from the public by locking them up "for future generations". This again is a techinique of the failed soviet union to give powers to cronies. In fact the whole conservancy idea reeks of cronism.


TOPICS: Extended News; US: California
KEYWORDS: ab1788; ab2600; arnold; ca; california; conservancy; environment; government; landgrab; legislation; natureconservancy; sierraconservancy; sierranevada; socialist
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To: Jeff Gordon

Of what importance is that if our budget balloons with these bills, if we can't manage our own property, if our counties go backrupt?


41 posted on 06/21/2004 3:23:00 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
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To: Jeff Gordon
in exchange for billions of dollars in payments to the state over the next quarter-century.

To the state, not to the locals who pay for all the police and firemen. These counties are already hurting because of the amount of federal land that is not on the tax rolls. Now he will take more off. The counties won't survive. Is this what you supported him for? Increases in government budget and bureaucracy?

42 posted on 06/21/2004 3:26:05 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
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To: farmfriend
I expect him to do what every politician is supposed to do, listen to his constituents.

If he fails to keep his word on this subject what are you going to say when he fails to keep is word on a subject near and dear to you?

I would rather have a politician that has principles and stands by those principles without regard to the prevailing wind. This concept is (among others things) what made Reagan our greatest and most loved President since George Washington.

I hate the whole concept of this bill but I would be truely pissed if Arnold went back on his word. Climb all over our Republican legislators to keep this bill from getting to Arnold. Kick their butts good and hard, but leave Arnie alone.

43 posted on 06/21/2004 3:28:44 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon (LWS - Legislating While Stupid. Someone should make this illegal.)
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To: farmfriend
To the state, not to the locals who pay for all the police and firemen.

Have you considered changing your Freeper name to "Cassandra?"

44 posted on 06/21/2004 3:30:35 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon (LWS - Legislating While Stupid. Someone should make this illegal.)
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To: Jeff Gordon
If he fails to keep his word on this subject what are you going to say when he fails to keep is word on a subject near and dear to you?

O, like the driver's licenses for illegals? He has already gone back on that. Cutting the budget? Gone back on that. Cutting the size of government? Gone back on that.

45 posted on 06/21/2004 3:31:16 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
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To: Jeff Gordon
Have you considered changing your Freeper name to "Cassandra?"

Excuse me? Is that a personal attack? Shame on you!

46 posted on 06/21/2004 3:32:44 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
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To: Jeff Gordon
Have you considered changing your Freeper name to "Cassandra?"

Seeing as you don't think this is a problem, I assume therefore, that you think it perfectly OK to do without elected representation in favor of having decisions about how you can use your property made by distant bureaucrats.

I seriously doubt you really understand what that portends. It is the issue that drove the US to separate from Britain, you know.

47 posted on 06/21/2004 3:43:31 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: Jeff Gordon; farmfriend; Carry_Okie
Do you expect him to back down on his word just because the word he gave in this instance really sucks?

As I recall Arnold also promised to bring fiscal responsibility to California.

A state that is flirting with default should not be creating yet more government programs and purchasing more land.

The new government lands after being paid for will require more funds in order to manage the new lands.

California should be selling land to pay off debt and reduce expenses.

48 posted on 06/21/2004 4:03:57 PM PDT by Pontiac (Ignorance of the law is no excuse, ignorance of your rights can be fatal.)
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To: Pontiac
A state that is flirting with default should not be creating yet more government programs and purchasing more land.

Much less destroying a revenue base.

49 posted on 06/21/2004 4:07:41 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: Carry_Okie; SierraWasp; calcowgirl; hedgetrimmer; forester
I posted it to the Free Republic Network board.
50 posted on 06/21/2004 4:24:26 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
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To: farmfriend
Excuse me? Is that a personal attack? Shame on you!

If the shoe fits....

51 posted on 06/21/2004 4:41:00 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon (LWS - Legislating While Stupid. Someone should make this illegal.)
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To: FairOpinion

I would call this the Solyent Green Legislation. I wonder how many Hollywood types with Mountain Hidaways will gladly take the forced Gov. payout to lose their property?


52 posted on 06/21/2004 4:46:03 PM PDT by marty60
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To: farmfriend

Thanks for pinging me.


53 posted on 06/21/2004 4:55:20 PM PDT by Alia (California -- It's Groovy! Baby!)
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To: farmfriend
As Governor I will propose establishment of a Sierra Nevada Mountains

Has anyone ever been to Mammoth? That whole chain on the way up is a wasteland...Reminds me of how ANWAR is supposed to be "Pristine" but if you see the pictures on NR Online, its above the treeline and completely unihabitable. At least in the Sierra's there is not huge cache of oil that our failure to use is putting us in a National Security risk... I don't get the importance of this issue, with all due respect. Is this going to affect SoCal's ability to get water from up there?

54 posted on 06/21/2004 4:55:56 PM PDT by PeoplesRep_of_LA (I am no longer afraid to publicly say I love Jesus, thanks Mel)
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To: Jeff Gordon

Do you expect him to help do away with elected constitutional government just because he promised to do so when he was campaigning?

Don't you think its moral and proper if a politician discovers that a piece of legislation is subversive and is designed to do away with elected representation, that he stop it no matter what his pre election promise was?


55 posted on 06/21/2004 4:57:08 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: skeeter

You can drop in on your representative, read him the parts of the bill that are unconstitutional and then explain to him why the bill is unconstitutional. If he won't let you do that, then ask to testify against the bill so it is on the public record that the bill is unconstitituional and the constituents know that it is.

Believe me, this works, it has worked in many states.


56 posted on 06/21/2004 4:59:26 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: hedgetrimmer
Do you expect him to help do away with elected constitutional government just because he promised to do so when he was campaigning?

Strawman arguments are always silly.

57 posted on 06/21/2004 5:02:38 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon (LWS - Legislating While Stupid. Someone should make this illegal.)
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To: farmfriend

This has been going on for years - at least 20 years. This is just one more in a very long line. What is so different in this case?

Here is a list of the others:
Altadena Foothills Conservancy *LTA *S&P Altadena, CA CA
Amador Land Trust *LTA *S&P Jackson, CA CA
American River Conservancy *LTA *S&P Coloma, CA CA
Anderson Valley Land Trust *LTA *S&P Boonville, CA CA
Anza-Borrego Foundation *LTA *S&P Borrego Springs, CA CA
Arid Lands Community San Jacinto, CA CA
Atascadero Land Preservation Society *LTA *S&P Atascadero, CA CA
Back Country Land Trust *LTA *S&P El Cajon, CA CA
Ballona Lagoon Marine Preserve *LTA *S&P Culver City, CA CA
Ballona Wetlands Land Trust *S&P Playa del Rey, CA CA
Batiquitos Lagoon Foundation Carlsbad, CA CA
Bay Area Barns and Trails *LTA *S&P Mill Valley, CA CA
Bayfront Conservancy Trust Chula Vista, CA CA
Big Sur Land Trust *LTA *S&P Carmel, CA CA
Bodega Land Trust *LTA *S&P Bodega, CA CA
Bolinas Community Land Trust Bolinas, CA CA
Bolsa Chica Conservancy Huntington Beach, CA CA
Bolsa Chica Land Trust *S&P Huntington Beach, CA CA
Bonsall Conservancy *LTA *S&P Bonsall, CA CA
Brentwood Agricultural Land Trust *LTA *S&P Brentwood, CA CA
The Buckeye Conservancy *LTA *S&P Eureka, CA CA
Butte Creek Watershed Conservancy Chico, CA CA
Butters Land Trust *LTA *S&P Oakland, CA CA
Cache Creek Conservancy *LTA *S&P Woodland, CA CA
Calaveras Open Space Trust *LTA Angels Camp, CA CA
California Institute of Man in Nature/Across California Conservancy Nevada City, CA CA
California Rangeland Trust *LTA *S&P Sacramento, CA CA
Canyons Network Carlsbad, CA CA
Carquinez Strait Preservation Trust *S&P Crockett, CA CA
Caspar Community *LTA *S&P Caspar, CA CA
Catalina Island Conservancy Avalon, CA CA
Cayucos Land Conservancy *LTA *S&P Cayucos, CA CA
Center for Natural Lands Management *LTA *S&P Fallbrook, CA CA, OR, WA
Claremont Wildlands Conservancy *LTA *S&P Claremont, CA CA
Coachella Valley Mountains Conservancy Palm Desert, CA CA
Coastal Land Trust Albion, CA CA
Coastside Preservation & Recreation Inc Moss Beach, CA CA
Comptche Land Conservancy *S&P Comptche, CA CA
Crafton Hills Open Space Conservancy *LTA *S&P Yucaipa, CA CA
Del Monte Forest Foundation Pebble Beach, CA CA
Desert Tortoise Preserve Committee Riverside, CA CA, NV
Dry Creek Conservancy Roseville, CA CA
Eastern Sierra Land Trust *LTA *S&P Bishop, CA CA
El Rio De Los Reyes En Reedley Conservation Trust Reedley, CA CA
Elkhorn Slough Foundation *LTA *S&P Moss Landing, CA CA
The Environmental Trust, Inc. *LTA *S&P La Mesa, CA CA
Escondido Creek Conservancy *LTA *S&P Escondido, CA CA
Fallbrook Land Conservancy *LTA *S&P Fallbrook, CA CA
Feather River Land Trust *LTA *S&P Quincy, CA CA
Foothills Wildlife Conservancy *S&P Monrovia, CA CA
Foundation for the Preservation of the Santa Susana Mountains Chatsworth, CA CA
Friends of Mission Valley Preserve San Diego, CA CA
Friends of the Desert Mountains *LTA Palm Desert, CA CA
Friends of the Dunes *LTA Arcata, CA CA
Friends of the Santa Margarita River Fallbrook, CA CA
Glendora Community Conservancy *S&P Glendora, CA CA
Golden State Land Conservancy *LTA *S&P Ukiah, CA CA
Goleta Valley Land Trust Santa Barbara, CA CA
Greenspace, The Cambria Land Trust *LTA *S&P Cambria, CA CA
The Habitat Trust *LTA *S&P Fayetteville, NC CA, NC
Half Moon Bay Open Space Trust *LTA Half Moon Bay, CA CA
HeartLand Trust *LTA Sherman Oaks, CA CA
Heirloom Trust Occidental, CA CA
Helix Community Conservancy *LTA La Mesa, CA CA
Homestead Valley Land Trust Mill Valley, CA CA
Humboldt North Coast Land Trust *LTA *S&P Trinidad, CA CA
Huntington Beach Wetlands Conservancy *S&P Huntington Beach, CA CA
Inland Mendocino County Land Trust *LTA Ukiah, CA CA
Inland Valley Land Trust Claremont, CA CA
Inter-Canyon League Silverado, CA CA
Iron Mountain Conservancy Ramona, CA CA
Jacoby Creek Land Trust *LTA *S&P Bayside, CA CA
Jamul Trails Council *LTA Jamul, CA CA
Kern River Valley Heritage Foundation *LTA *S&P Lake Isabella, CA CA
Laguna Canyon Conservancy Laguna Beach, CA CA
Laguna de Santa Rosa Foundation *S&P Sebastopol, CA CA
Laguna Greenbelt, Inc. *LTA *S&P Laguna Beach, CA CA
Lake County Land Trust *S&P Lower Lake, CA CA
Land Conservancy of San Luis Obispo County *LTA *S&P San Luis Obispo, CA CA
Land Trust for Santa Barbara County *LTA *S&P Santa Barbara, CA CA
Land Trust for Santa Clara County *LTA *S&P Gilroy, CA CA
Land Trust of Napa County *LTA *S&P Napa, CA CA
Land Trust of Santa Cruz County *LTA *S&P Santa Cruz, CA CA
LandPaths *S&P Santa Rosa, CA CA
Lassen Land and Trails Trust *LTA *S&P Susanville, CA CA
Lompico Watershed Conservancy *S&P Felton, CA CA
Los Angeles Neighborhood Land Trust *LTA Los Angeles, CA CA
Malibu Coastal Land Conservancy Malibu, CA CA
Malibu Trails Association Malibu, CA CA
Marin Agricultural Land Trust *LTA *S&P Point Reyes Station, CA CA
Mattole Restoration Council *LTA Petrolia, CA CA
McKinleyville Land Trust *LTA *S&P McKinleyville, CA CA
Mendocino Agricultural Land Trust Potter Valley, CA CA
Mendocino Land Trust *LTA *S&P Mendocino, CA CA
Merced County Farmlands and Open Space Trust *LTA *S&P Merced, CA CA
Midcoast Park Lands, Inc. El Granada, CA CA
Middle Mountain Foundation *LTA *S&P Live Oak, CA CA
Midpeninsula Regional Open Space District Los Altos, CA CA
Mill Creek Watershed Conservancy Petrolia, CA CA
Minarets Conservancy *LTA North Fork, CA CA
Moat Creek Management Agency *LTA *S&P Point Arena, CA CA
Mojave Desert Heritage & Cultural Association Laguna Beach, CA CA
Monrovia Mountains Conservancy Monrovia, CA CA
Monterey County Agricultural and Historical Land Conservancy *LTA *S&P Salinas, CA CA
Morro Coast Audubon Society *LTA Morro Bay, CA CA
Mountain Meadows Conservancy Westwood, CA CA
Mountains Restoration Trust *LTA *S&P Calabasas, CA CA
Muir Heritage Land Trust *LTA *S&P Martinez, CA CA
The Nature Conservancy, California Field Office *LTA San Francisco, CA CA
Nature Trust of the Santa Monica Mountains *LTA *S&P Malibu, CA CA
Nevada County Land Trust *LTA *S&P Grass Valley, CA CA
North Coast Small Wilderness Area Preservation *LTA *S&P Cambria, CA CA
North Delta Conservancy *LTA *S&P Courtland, CA CA
Northcoast Regional Land Trust *LTA *S&P Bayside, CA CA
Northern California Regional Land Trust *LTA *S&P Chico, CA CA
Ojai Valley Land Conservancy *LTA *S&P Ojai, CA CA
Open Space Alliance of Santa Cruz *LTA *S&P Santa Cruz, CA CA
Pacific Forest Trust *LTA *S&P Santa Rosa, CA CA, OR, WA
Pacifica Land Trust *LTA *S&P Pacifica, CA CA
Palos Verdes Peninsula Land Conservancy *LTA *S&P Palos Verdes Peninsula, CA CA
Paradise Community Foundation Paradise, CA CA
Peninsula Open Space Trust *LTA *S&P Menlo Park, CA CA
Placer Land Trust *LTA *S&P Auburn, CA CA
Port Costa Conservation Society *LTA *S&P Port Costa, CA CA
Preserve Calavera Oceanside, CA CA
Quail Ridge Wilderness Conservancy *LTA *S&P Davis, CA CA
Redlands Conservancy *LTA Redlands, CA CA
Redwood Coast Land Conservancy *LTA *S&P Gualala, CA CA
Riverside Land Conservancy *LTA *S&P Riverside, CA CA
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation *LTA *S&P Missoula, MT AZ, CA, CO, ID, MI, MN, MT, NV, NM, ND, OR, PA, SD, UT, WA, WY
Sacramento River Preservation Trust Chico, CA CA
Sacramento Valley Ag Land Conservancy Elk Grove, CA CA
Sacramento Valley Conservancy *LTA *S&P Sacramento, CA CA
San Andreas Land Conservancy Davenport, CA CA
San Benito Agricultural Land Trust *LTA *S&P Tres Pinos, CA CA
San Bernardino Mountains Land Trust *S&P Lake Arrowhead, CA CA
San Diego River Park - Lakeside Conservancy *LTA *S&P Lakeside, CA CA
San Dieguito River Valley Land Conservancy del Mar, CA CA
San Elijo Lagoon Conservancy *LTA *S&P Encinitas, CA CA
San Gabriel Mountains Regional Conservancy *LTA *S&P Glendora, CA CA
San Joaquin River Parkway and Conservation Trust *LTA *S&P Fresno, CA CA
San Juan Canyon Preservation Trust *LTA *S&P Belmont, CA CA
Sanctuary Forest, Inc. *LTA *S&P Whitethorn, CA CA
Santa Catalina Island Conservancy Avalon, CA CA
Santa Lucia Conservancy Pacific Grove, CA CA
Santa Monica Mountains Trails Council *LTA *S&P Agoura Hills, CA CA
Save Mount Diablo *LTA *S&P Walnut Creek, CA CA
Save the Redwoods League San Francisco, CA CA
Sempervirens Fund *LTA Los Altos, CA CA
Sequoia Riverlands Trust *LTA *S&P Visalia, CA CA
Sequoya Challenge *LTA *S&P Grass Valley, CA CA
Seven Generations Land Trust Berkeley, CA CA, OR
Shasta Land Trust *LTA *S&P Redding, CA CA
Sierra Foothill Conservancy *LTA *S&P Prather, CA CA
Sierra Madre Mountains Conservancy Glendale, CA CA
Siskiyou Land Trust Mount Shasta, CA CA
Small Wilderness Area Preservation, Inc. *LTA Los Osos, CA CA
Solano Land Trust *LTA *S&P Fairfield, CA CA
Sonoma Land Trust *LTA *S&P Santa Rosa, CA CA
Southern California Agricultural Land Foundation *LTA *S&P Chino, CA CA
Southern Marin Land Trust *S&P Sausalito, CA CA
Southwest Wetlands Interpretive Association Imperial Beach, CA CA
Stanislaus Farmland Trust Modesto, CA CA
Tahoe Land Trust Tahoe City, CA CA
Tamalpais Conservation Club *LTA Mill Valley, CA CA
Topanga Natural History Association Topanga, CA CA
Tri-Valley Conservancy *LTA *S&P Livermore, CA CA
Truckee Donner Land Trust *LTA *S&P Truckee, CA CA
Trust for Public Land, Western Regional Office *LTA San Francisco, CA CA
Tuolumne County Land Trust Sonora, CA CA
Tuscany Research Institute *LTA *S&P Las Vegas, NV CA
Ventana Conservation and Land Trust *LTA Santa Barbara, CA CA
Ventura County Agricultural Land Trust *S&P Ventura, CA CA
Ventura Hillsides Conservancy *LTA Ventura, CA CA
Volcan Mountain Preserve Foundation Julian, CA CA
Watsonville Wetlands Watch *LTA Freedom, CA CA
Western Alliance for Nature Malibu, CA CA
Western Cave Conservancy *LTA Santa Cruz, CA CA
Westport Village Society, Inc. *LTA *S&P Westport, CA CA
Whittier Hills Conservancy Whittier, CA CA
The Wilderness Association of San Diego, Inc. San Diego, CA CA
The Wildlands Conservancy Yucaipa, CA CA
Wildlife Heritage Foundation *LTA *S&P Lincoln, CA CA
Winnemem Wintu Organization Redding, CA CA
Yggdrasil Land Foundation, Inc *LTA San Francisco, CA CA
Yolo Land Trust *LTA *S&P Woodland, CA CA
Yuba Sutter Land Trust Marysville, CA CA


58 posted on 06/21/2004 5:05:19 PM PDT by BJungNan (Stop Spam - Start Charging for Email - You get 2000 a month for free, then you pay!)
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To: Jeff Gordon

The conservancy will create a bureau of unelected officials who will give taxpayer money and resources to environmental NGOs. This will make the NGOs extremely wealthy and extremely powerful because the right of the citizen to have any say over public land will be destroyed. You cannot possibly support this.

When NGOs start to run things, the rights of citizens are lost.

Do you think an NGO should be able to change your property line? Because this NGO will if the conservancy passes. If you don't think they should be able to change your property line, why should it be ok for them to change the property of others? Do you think they should be able to buy and sell real estate like a for profit corporation and never pay taxes? Do you think they should be able to have a bank account of this money-- where they are free from the worry that taxpayers might cut off their funding-- because they will have their own wealth and therefore be uncontrollable by the electorate? Do think any NGO has the right to take public money for land then make it illegal for the land to be used for anything except what they want? What if the public changes their mind? What if there is an economic downturn so severe that the land is needed for its resources and contribution to the economy? Do you think that the people of today should have to give up their property rights and economic prosperity for "future generations" to be determined by an NGO?

I don't think any clear thinking citizen of a Constitutional Republic would answer yes to any of those questions.


59 posted on 06/21/2004 5:14:02 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Pontiac
California should be selling land to private citizens to pay off debt and reduce expenses
60 posted on 06/21/2004 5:15:07 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


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