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The Janus* face of Islam
Rational Thinking.Humanists.net ^ | 1/16/02 | Abul Kasem

Posted on 06/24/2004 3:01:53 PM PDT by veronica

Islamists living in the infidel West are greatly alarmed and deeply perplexed after the September terrorist attack in America. After 9-11, many of them are doing overtime to search the 'goodies' from the Qur’an and are desperate to prove that Islam is a religion of unbound mercy to their host countries.

They repeatedly quote a handful of these 'goldies' from the 'Meccan Verses' of the Qur’an, which are milder in tone than the ones descended on Medina. They carefully hide the unconscionable, intolerable, barbaric verses that litter the almost entire Qur’an by saying that 'those verses are out of context' and are not applicable to the infidels who have given them a chance for a better life and have accepted them as their own countrymen. Nothing can be worse than this hide and seek game of the Islamists living in the West. It is in the interest of all the non-Muslims (as well as the innocent Muslims who have very little knowledge about 'real Islam') that the truth must be told.

The message is very clear. Those Islamists living in the West quote those 'goodies' from the Qur’an are actually showing the dead 'Meccan Islam' to the vast majority of the ignorant non-Muslims (as well as half-informed Muslims) to camouflage the most up to date version of Islam; i.e. the living and breathing 'Medina Islam'. The strategies of these Islamists are also very clear:

· When in the West or in the land of the infidels or when weak, then practice 'Meccan Islam'.

· When in Islamic paradises or when the number of Muslims becomes sizable in an infidels land, then practice 'Medina Islam' or the 'real Islam'.

The sooner the humanity discovers this double face of Islam (a la Roman god Janus) the quicker will it be saved from the further catastrophe of the like of 9-11.

So, how do we know about the 'living and breathing Medina Islam'? Here is the answer.

In order to understand the 'real Islam' we must look at Qur’an in chronological order and not the way it is published. The chronological order shows which verses are canceled and which verses are replaced. It is meaningless to study and to explain Qur’an without the knowledge of its currency. Many verses in the Qur’an have been replaced by other verses.

The Qur’an itself talks about this in the following verses:

God does not abrogate any verse but substitutes something similar or better...2:106

God removes (abrogates?) what He wills...13:39

God substitutes one revelation with another; God has the mother of the Book...16:101

These verses have created a lot of confusions among many. However, one thing is certain. It is this. God does change His mind and that that change can be very dramatic. In many cases, the matter of abrogation may involve life and death situation. So, it is extremely important (especially for the ignorant non-Muslims) to know which verses are applicable to them and which verses are not. The most important among these verses are the ones containing the provisions of fighting the infidels. There was a time when fighting was prohibited and there was (rather is) a time when fighting became compulsory.

Those verses revealed in Mecca are considered to be the benign and non-violent type. There are 87 Meccan verse and 27 Medina verses (this may vary slightly but we shall work with these numbers). Thus, there are total 114 suras (or chapters) in Qur’an.

Medina verses contain the provisions of fighting because it was in Medina that Mohammad received the green light (read signal) from God to fight the infidels. So, as a guide we can conclude that the verses with a chronology order of 87 or more are the replacement for the Meccan verses regarding the treatment of the unbelievers.

In this short discourse, I shall try to elucidate how we can eliminate the confusion regarding the 'goodies' from the Islamists and the 'bashings' from the secularists/freethinkers/infidels.

Please note that the chronology order of the verses are indicated in bold ( ).

We can divide the propagation of Islam by Mohammad in four distinct phases. These phases are:

1. Peaceful persuasion

2. Fighting for defense

3. Limited attack

4. Open aggression

Phase 1: Peaceful persuasion stage.

Highlights

· A policy of peaceful co-existence with the pagans of Mecca.

· Give and take strategy with the pagans and the hypocrites.

· Jews and Christians (people of the Book) were considered as friends.

· Mohammad was almost like the Buddha preaching love, forgiveness, non-violence, and peace.

· Only the pagans of Mecca were considered as enemies (i.e. enemy list contains only one group).

Important verses

(Note: To save time and space I have given the main messages of the verses omitting the complete verses. Click HERE... if you want to read the complete verses)

1. Be patient and bear with those who deny the truth; God will deal with them...73:10, 11 (3)

2. 'To you is your religion, to me is mine'...109:1- 6 (8)

3. Be patient with the evil doers...38:15-17 (38)

4. Show patience to the pagans...20:130 (42)

5. Don't be in a haste to fight...19:83, 84 (44)

6. Be patient with the unbelievers (pagans); God's way will prevail...20:134, 135 (45)

7. Mohammad is not sent to dispose of people's affairs...17:54 (50)

8. God guides those whom He pleases; rewards will be in paradise...10:25, 26 (51)

9. God will call into account the pagans who slander the Qur’an...15:91-93 (54)

10. It is not God's job to see if people believe the truth or not...6:104 (55)

11. Turn away from those rejecting faith and proclaim peace on them...43:88, 89 (69)

12. Invite the unbelievers (pagans) with beautiful preaching and gracious arguments; be patient and do not retaliate...16:125, 126 (70)

13. Leave the unbelievers (pagans) alone...23:54 (74)

14. Repeal evil with good deeds...23:96 (74)

15. Leave the unbelievers alone and wait in patience for God to punish them...52:45, 47, 48 (76)

16. Mohammad is only a warner and not an enforcer...67:26 (77)

Phase 2: Fighting for defense stage

Highlights

· Mohammed along with his handful followers migrated to Medina (622 AD). Some tribes of Medina accepted him as their leader.

· Mohammed and his gang started raids on passing caravans of the Meccans to acquire the wherewithal for survival.

· Mohammad won the battle of Badr (same year of migration i.e.622 AD) which bolstered his morale for further raids on Meccan caravans.

· After several years of stay in Medina, God gave Mohammad permission to launch defensive war.

· Enemies were the pagans of Mecca and the hypocrites (note: the enemy list includes two groups now).

Important verses

1. Permission to fight for self defense is granted...22:39-41 (105)

2. Rewards for Jihad is announced...22:58 (105)

Phase 3: More defensively aggressive stage

Highlights

· Mohammad expected the Jews of Medina to accept him as their new Moses.

· The Jews rejected Mohammad as their new apostle.

· Mohammad included the Jews as his enemy and started to raid their sanctuaries.

· Enemies of Mohammad now were pagans, hypocrites, and the Jews (note: the enemy list now contains three).

· Mohammad was a little bit forgiving to the defeated Jews. He gave them a chance to live in their lands provided they paid him fifty percent of their agricultural produce of land.

· This way Mohammad acquired the means of a guaranteed livelihood for his horde of soldiers.

· The battle of Uhud (623 AD) was fought. Muslims suffered a severe beating in the battle.

· The battle of trench (625 AD) took place with huge loss of lives. Mohammad managed to win this battle.

· Treaty of Hudaibiya (626 AD) was signed with the pagans of Mecca ensuring ten years of peace. Mohammad was allowed to visit Kaba along with his followers during the pilgrimage season.

· Battle of Khaibar (627 AD) took place. The Jews lost the battle and surrendered unconditionally. Mohmmad ordered the beheading of around 700 adult male surrendered Jews and took 17 years old Jewess Safiya as a war booty and made her his wife.

Important verses

1. Forgive and overlook the unbelieving Jews; God will take care of them...2:109 (87)

2. Fight defensively the Meccan pagans but if they cease hostility then stop fighting except for the oppressors...2:190-194 (87)

3. Fighting against the Meccan pagans is prescribed after the passing of the month of pilgrimage (Zulhaj)...2:216, 217 (87)

4. 'No compulsion in religion'; do not force the defeated enemy to embrace Islam; but they will be thrown in hell...2:256, 257 (87)

5. Spoils of war belongs to God and Mohammad...8:1 (88)

6. Strike terror in the hearts of the unbelievers; cut the necks and finger tips of those who oppose God and Mohammad...8:12, 13 (88)

7. When you meet, the unbelievers in hostility attack them and never turn back from them. If you retreat except for a strategic reason then God will punish you and will send you to hell...8:15-16 (88)

8. Keep on fighting until the persecution stops and Islam is established; one-fifth of booty belongs to God and Mohammad...8:39-41 (88)

9. Obey Mohammad, be united and persevere in fighting...8:45, 46 (88)

10. If you defeat the enemy then teach them with treachery and terror; if they ask for peace then give them peace...8:57-61 (88)

11. Rouse the believers to fight with perseverance, God will help by increasing your strength...8:65 (88)

12. Continue killing and do not take prisoners until the land is subdued then enjoy the war booty...8:67-69 (88)

13. Martyr's sins are blotted out and they go to paradise...3:157, 169-171, 195 (89)

14. Can take women captives as concubines in addition to wives...33:50 (90)

15. There is a great reward for fighting against the friends of Satan...4:74-78 (92)

16. Fight and rouse other believers to fight; God will restrain the fury of the unbelievers...4:84 (92)

17. Kill the hypocrites if they turn renegades...4:89 (92)

18. Higher grade for fighting for God...4:95, 96 (92)

19. Guaranteed reward for fighting in the cause of God...4:100 (92)

20. Whether a fighter kills or is killed, he is admitted in paradise to reside there permanently...22:58, 59 (103)

21. Struggle for God's cause...22:78 (103)

22. Can't lag behind in fighting for God...48:15-16 (111)

23. Muslims are compassionate with each other but are strong to fight against the unbelievers...48:29 (111)

Phase 4: Offensive war or open declaration of attack to spread Islam

This phase is the stage of open offensive war against all the unbelievers. This phase started in 630 AD after Mohammad re-entered Mecca and captured Kaba from the pagans. This is the phase, which is currently valid for all Muslims.

Highlights

· Permission was granted by God to declare offensive war against all non-Muslims.

· Kill the pagans and humble the Jews and the Christians through Jizya tax.

· Tabuk expedition (late 630 AD) is the first war against the Christians.

· The world is divided into two houses, viz. House of Islam (Darul Islam) and the House of war (Darul Harb).

· All Muslims must fight to convert the Darul Harb into Darul Islam.

· This is the final teaching of Qur’an and so it is valid today and for future (that is, for eternity).

· Christians are included in the list of enemies (that is, the list now grows to four).

· Verse 9:5 (also called the verse of the sword) replaces all verses showing mercy, love, tolerance and forgiveness to all non-Muslims.

Important verses

1. Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable...3:85 (89)

2. Kill (execute by beheading)/crucify/torture who opposes Mohammad...5:33 (112)

3. Do not make friendship with the Jews and the Christians...5:51 (112)

4. After giving four months notice break all treaties with the pagans that they did not keep; those treaties with the pagans that they kept are to be honored to their full term; in future make no more peace treaties with the pagans and kill all pagans who do not accept Islam...9:1-6 (113)

5. Pagans who accept Islam are brothers of Muslims; those who break the agreement fight them...9:11, 12, 14, 15 (113)

6. Do not make friend or seek protection from the unbelievers (includes pagans, hypocrites, Jews and the Christians)...9:16 (113)

7. Unbelievers should not visit mosques or maintain the mosques of God; they will go to hell...9:17 (113)

8. Those who do Jihad are the highest in rank; they will dwell in paradise...9:19-22 (113)

9. The unbelievers are unclean, forbid them to enter Kaba...9:28 (113)

10. Fight against the Jews and the Christians until they are subdued and pay the Jizya tax with submission; God's curse is on them...9:29-31 (113)

11. If you do not fight in the cause of God with whatever you have got then God will punish you with a serious punishment...9:38, 39, 41 (113)

12. If you fight for God then expect either martyrdom or paradise. The unbelievers can expect only punishment from God...9:52 (113)

13. Those who are able to fight for God but do not do so are rejected by God...9:90-96 (113)

14. Whether you slay or slain in Jihad, God has promised paradise for giving all in the cause of God...9:111 (113)

15. Fight the unbelievers surrounding you...9:122 (113)

So, what do we learn from the above list of Quranic verses? Are you confused? Of course you are. When the Islamists in the west are drumming, "Islam is peace. Islam is tolerance. Islam is merciful" who will not be confused by such contradictory statements! Let me tell you something. Actually there is no confusion whatsoever if we follow the simple rule on abrogation.

This simple doctrine of abrogation says that when there are confusions (i.e. contradictory statements in Qur’an), the later verses abrogate the former contradictory verses. The result is that only the latest category of verses remains valid without any doubt. That is why it is so important to know the chronological order of verses in Qur’an.

Let us hear from a modern translator (Yusuf Ali is too old) of the Qur’an and Hadith.

"So at first 'the fighting' was forbidden, then it was permitted and after that it was made obligatory against those who start 'the fighting' against you (Muslims) and against all those who worship others along with Allah".

(Ref. Introduction section of the English translation of Sahih Bukhari by Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan, Medina Islamic University).

In the same section Dr M. Muhsin Khan writes further

, "Then Allah revealed in Sura Bara’at (9) the order to discard (all) the obligations (covenants, etc.) and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the pagans as well as against the people of the scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizya (a tax levied on the Jews and Christians who do not embrace Islam and are under the protection of an Islamic government) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (9:29). So they (Muslims) were not permitted to abandon ‘the fighting’ against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong and have the possibility of fighting against them."

Jalaluddin Suyuti wrote Itqan fi 'ulum-il-Qur’an in 1497 AD. This book is the Tafsir (explanation) of Qur’an and is highly regarded. It is a compulsory reading for any one who wants to study Qur’an for its 'real meanings'. His another famous book is Istenbat al-Tanzeel. In this book

Suyuti wrote,"everything in the Qur’an about forgiveness is abrogated by verse 9:5".

Please read that above quote again if you are really serious about Islam. Remember that this verse has a chronology order of 113 (Remember? There are 114 suras in Qur’an).

Islamic apologists often quote the following verses to portray the mercy and forgiveness in Islam.

To you is your religion and to me is mine...109:6

No compulsion in religion...2:256

Turn away from those who join false gods with Allah...15:94

Unfortunately, all those 'goodies' of Qur’an are canceled if we follow the Tafsir (explanation) of Suyuti and the doctrine of abrogation) regarding the verse of the sword (9:5).

Islamists love Ms. Karen Armstrong for her siding with them. Ms. Karen Armstrong writes to fool the non-Muslims in believing what George Bush is drumming, 'Islam is a peaceful religion'. Any one who has a workable knowledge on Islamic matters knows for sure that her writings are very misleading and does not tell the truth at all. When Ms. Karen Armstrong writes by quoting verse 2:190

"the only permissible war (in the Qur’an is one of self defense. Muslims must not begin hostilities", (Time magazine October 1, 2001)

she is clearly being dishonest in telling the truth about the phase four of Islamic war which calls all Muslims to declare a total war on the house of Harb (i.e. the infidels abodes). Phase four of Jihad is valid until all the people of the world are converted to Islam. Thus, today's Muslims are in perpetual war with the infidels whether they (the Muslims) are in an Islamic paradise like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh (recently included, previously not), Iran ...or in infidel lands like USA, UK, Canada, France...etc.

Here is another quote from Alsaylu Jarar (4:518-519) by Al-Shawkani. Shawkani is a famous writer on Islamic matters. His writings are authoritative and are used by the Jihadis to justify their merciless actions.

"Islam is unanimous about fighting the unbelievers and forcing them to Islam or submitting and paying Jizya tax (protection money for the Jews and the Christians only) or being killed. The verse about forgiving them are abrogated unanimously by the obligation of fighting in any case".

Can Ms. Karen Armstrong and other Islamists living in the comfort of non-Muslim freethinking society refute the above assertion by an eminent Alim (Islamic scholar)?

Please note that verse 9:5 is a very important verse of Qur’an. This verse marks the transition from the phase of showing mercy (phase 1) and forgiveness to the unbelievers to the phase of open aggression on them (phase 4). As told before, this verse is known as the verse of the sword. This verse cancels all the verses containing mercy, tolerance, and forgiveness to the non-Muslims (as many as 111 to 124 verses; you got to scan the entire Qur’an; anything forgiving, merciful, friendship is out).

Also, note carefully how the chronology order increases as Mohammad turns from a non-violent (like Buddha) person to a fascist nazi like Hitler/Mussolini/Osama/Ayatollah. In fact, we can safely conclude that Mohammad was a saint before the chronology order of the Qur’an was below 87 but he became a fascist dictator after this.

Again note that the chronology order in the final phase of open aggression against all non-Muslims of the world (phase 4) is almost the end (113) chapter (sura) of Qur’an (Remember? There are 114 suras in Qur’an).

Is lying allowed in Islam? I must be a nut to ask such a question! Of course, not, you say. Lying is a great sin in Islam; at least the Islamists will let us believe this. This is a complete delusion. Muslims are allowed to tell lies in order to make the religion of Islam rule the world. Would you not believe me? See for yourself what Imam Ghazali (another supreme Islamic scholar) says:

"Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praise worthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible " (Ref: Ahmad Ibn Naqib al-Misri, The Reliance of the Traveller, translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller , Amana publications, 1997, section r8.2, page 745).

And what could be the noblest goal of a Muslim than to make Islam rule world? This is the secret why the Islamists constantly lie about their religion when they are in West. Because, if they tell the truth, no one will be attracted to Islam.

Islamists often attack the secularists and freethinkers whenever they (secularists/freethinkers) quote the offensive verses of the Qur’an by 'out of context' arguments.

What could be more clear and forceful evidences / proofs than what has been told above that 'out of context' argument by the Islamic apologists is a total hoax?

--------------------------

*A double-faced head represented Janus, a Roman god.

Kasem writes from Sydney, Australia. Comments could be made by writing to – abul88@hotmail.com

Note: The author relied on the English Translation of Qur’an by A. Yusufali and the English Translation of Sahih Bukhari by Dr. M. Muhsin Khan. All references given are believed to be correct. However, the author is not responsible for any misconception that a reader may have due to his consultation of other sources.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: balkans; bosnia; campaignfinance; islam; kosovo

1 posted on 06/24/2004 3:01:54 PM PDT by veronica
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To: veronica

What I say is going to be really politically incorrect, but from my view, Islam is the AntiChrist. It denies the Divinity of Christ. It also transgresses against the last lines of The Revelation which state that nothing is to be added, and nothing is to be taken away.

Their book is heresy.

Flame away...


2 posted on 06/24/2004 3:14:45 PM PDT by OpusatFR (Vote Kerry if you want to commit national suicide)
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To: veronica

great find. this makes a lot more clear.


3 posted on 06/24/2004 3:22:15 PM PDT by kallisti (i was toilet-trained at gunpoint)
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To: veronica

The further we get into this, the more I comprehend the depth of my Czech grandparents' dislike of Islam and the driving force behind the Crusades.


4 posted on 06/24/2004 3:36:06 PM PDT by Think free or die
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To: veronica
Islam - a Religion of Peace

ROTFL!!! Tell me more! Tell me more and more and more!

ISLAM=FASCISM

5 posted on 06/24/2004 3:43:31 PM PDT by Miron
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To: Think free or die
Do you think maybe the Serbs were on to something?

I know it's terrible to to think that all those muslims got what they deserved, but then I am reminded of the hellacious reaction when the Israelis bombed Saddam's nuclear reactor in the early '80s, and ten years later, we were thanking God (not allah) that they had done so.

It may not be too long before we are thanking the Serbs for what they have done.

6 posted on 06/24/2004 3:45:28 PM PDT by lancer (If you are not with us, you are against us!)
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To: veronica

The face of Islam (graphic!)

http://www.model-info-line.at/homepage-11-September/bilder/alle-bilder/grausame-bilder/WTC-jumper%20.jpg

http://www.model-info-line.at/homepage-11-September/bilder/alle-bilder/grausame-bilder/World%20Trade%20Center%20censored%20photo%2005.jpg


7 posted on 06/24/2004 3:48:42 PM PDT by Miron
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To: veronica

Lying to promote islam IS allowed...it is called taqiyya. This is an excellent list. All should visit Robert Spencer's website at: www.jihadwatch.org for a daily briefing on jihadist happenings here and worldwide.


8 posted on 06/24/2004 3:50:17 PM PDT by milford421
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To: lancer

The muslims are burning Churches in Kosovo...all under the "watchful" eyes of the UN.


9 posted on 06/24/2004 3:51:26 PM PDT by milford421
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To: OpusatFR

Preach it brother!

I hope Americans can survive the coming Islamic sh!tstorm...in our own backyard.


10 posted on 06/24/2004 3:57:34 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl ("In the Kingdom of the Deluded, the Most Outrageous Liar is King".)
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To: TheSpottedOwl
I hope Americans can survive the coming Islamic sh!tstorm...in our own backyard.

The legal framework for declaring islam illegal in the United States must be vigorously explored.
11 posted on 06/24/2004 4:30:53 PM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: lancer

I'm far from an expert on the history of the Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, and others in the former Yugoslavia. I've learned a bit and forgotten a lot. The Serbs fought fascism during WWII, while some of the other groups, notably the Croats, allied themselves with the Nazis. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt for that reason alone. I'm also pretty sympathetic to their challenge of having a growing ethnic minority in Kosovo - not a situation which was likely to be resolved easily.


12 posted on 06/24/2004 4:34:28 PM PDT by Think free or die
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To: veronica
And then that was that whole thing in the Quran about Quraysh that I read about awhile back. Something about how they made a peace with its inhabitants with the deliberate intention of breaking it. Anyone know anything about that?
13 posted on 06/24/2004 4:41:58 PM PDT by inquest (Judges are given the power to decide cases, not to decide law)
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To: SpaceBar
The legal framework for declaring islam illegal in the United States must be vigorously explored.

Well, there is the technical fact that only Congress is forbidden to infringe on the free exercise of religion...

14 posted on 06/24/2004 4:44:45 PM PDT by inquest (Judges are given the power to decide cases, not to decide law)
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To: SpaceBar
The legal framework for declaring islam illegal in the United States must be vigorously explored.

It's a cult, not a religion. Try and get the ACLU to see this, until their offices start getting blown up by these nuts...

Like I said....Islamic Sh!tstorm...

15 posted on 06/24/2004 4:53:25 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl ("In the Kingdom of the Deluded, the Most Outrageous Liar is King".)
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To: inquest

Yes Mad Mo made a treaty with the Quereshi Jews and waited until he was stronger than them. They then attacked and beheaded all 600 of the men and kept the women and children as booty!


16 posted on 06/24/2004 5:19:38 PM PDT by Coroner
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To: Miron
ISLAM=FASCISM

If I'm not mistaken didn't the muslims in Yougoslavia side with the Nazis, as well as the muslims living in the mid-east?

17 posted on 06/24/2004 5:32:01 PM PDT by YankeeReb
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To: inquest

Read the biography of the evil 'prophet' to understand islam. This one was published in 1913 - written by an historian, the book includes all the original arabic sources in the footnotes...They can't say it isn't true...
See tagline. Link to Free pdf Books.


18 posted on 06/24/2004 5:47:07 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (UNDERSTAND EVIL. Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf. Link on My Page.)
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To: veronica
What could be more clear and forceful evidences / proofs than what has been told above that 'out of context' argument by the Islamic apologists is a total hoax?

"I fear Greeks even when they bear gifts" would be a wise dictum here. In this case, the Greeks are the humanists. These whizkids make quite the out-of-context hash out of the Old and New Testaments. They don't even grok the concept of Janus, which was not intended to be a god of hypocrisy but a god of the past and the future, a god of transitions.

So yes, though the Koran is full of venom, I don't really trust these guys to give us a deep understanding of it.

19 posted on 06/24/2004 5:53:51 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: YankeeReb

The arabs were delighted to be able to help hitler kill Jews. Seems arafat's killers still give the nazi salute. Don't miss out on the photographic evidence. Go to:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1159541/posts

POST 115.

Saddm's hero was Stalin. Why wouldn't the mufti of Jerusalem worship hilter? Just killers doing what they do best and sticking together.


20 posted on 06/24/2004 5:59:45 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (UNDERSTAND EVIL. Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf. Link on My Page.)
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To: inquest
Well, there is the technical fact that only Congress is forbidden to infringe on the free exercise of religion...

Islam is a doctrine for social and military conquest concocted by a wascally first millenium arabic general, not a religion.
21 posted on 06/24/2004 6:01:04 PM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: veronica

You have done the members of FR a huge service by posting this no-nonsense, totally honest analysis of the cult of mohammad. As an aussie, I'm proud to see the author writes from my country. We are not PC here. We call it as we see it. We don't swallow wholesale lies. Our Press, though biased to the Left, (as the majority of journalists are,) still publishes the truth. Muslim crime in Sydney is 'through the roof' - with only 240,000 muslim immigrants in the entire country, they are making themselves felt. Painfully. Accusations of intolerence, oppression, ignorance; muslims are not careful how they insult Australians... Australians are the most tolerant people on earth. 30% of the population is now of post WW2 migrant stock. All have to a great extent assimmilated. They love the way of life. ( I can say all that, I'm a migrant myself.)

But not the muslims. No way. They aggitate. Look sideways at one at the traffic lights, and it's a hate crime. Meanwhile, we have pack rapes, honour killings, more mosques...and the icing on the cake; fat bearded imams in nighshirts with proven terrorist links ( the latest is out on strict bail conditions) awaiting trial...preaching jihad on his website.
What was his occupation? (Before he became a terrorist supporter)
He was a baggage handler at one of our airlines!
The PC laws in the US ( and europe) only serve to hide muslim crime:
http://www.hvk.org/articles/0104/64.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/726673/posts

Read the biography of the 'prophet' free pdf book. See tagline.


22 posted on 06/24/2004 6:39:41 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (UNDERSTAND EVIL. Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf. Link on My Page.)
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To: veronica

good find - added to my Archive


23 posted on 06/24/2004 6:58:01 PM PDT by King Prout (the difference between "trained intellect" and "indoctrinated intellectual" is an Abyssal gulf)
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To: Fred Nerks

Thanks, mate. :)


24 posted on 06/24/2004 7:51:52 PM PDT by veronica (Hate-triotism, the religion of leftists, liberals, anti-semites, and other cranks...)
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To: dennisw; SJackson; BenF; Nachum; Yehuda; DonaldDuke; Sabertooth; JohnHuang2; kattracks; hchutch; ...

FYI...


25 posted on 06/24/2004 7:53:23 PM PDT by veronica (Hate-triotism, the religion of leftists, liberals, anti-semites, and other cranks...)
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To: BenF; Coroner; DonaldDuke; dennisw; Fred Nerks; HiTech RedNeck; hchutch; inquest; JohnHuang2; ...
Virgins? What virgins?
by Ibn Warraq
Saturday January 12, 2002
Luxenberg tries to show that many obscurities of the Koran disappear if we read certain words as being Syriac and not Arabic. We cannot go into the technical details of his methodology but it allows Luxenberg, to the probable horror of all Muslim males dreaming of sexual bliss in the Muslim hereafter, to conjure away the wide-eyed houris promised to the faithful in suras XLIV.54; LII.20, LV.72, and LVI.22. Luxenberg 's new analysis, leaning on the Hymns of Ephrem the Syrian, yields "white raisins" of "crystal clarity" rather than doe-eyed, and ever willing virgins - the houris. Luxenberg claims that the context makes it clear that it is food and drink that is being offerred, and not unsullied maidens or houris.
What the Qur'an Really Says
by Saykh Prof. Abdul Haddi Palazzi
The Qur'an recognizes the Land of Israel as the heritage of the Jews and it explains that, before the Last Judgment, Jews will return to dwell there. This prophecy has already been fulfilled... Viewing the Jewish return to Israel as a Western invasion and Zionists as recent colonizers is new. It has no basis in authentic Islamic faith. According to the Qur'an, no person, people or religious community can claim a permanent right of possession over any territory. The Earth belongs exclusively to God, and He is free to entrust sovereignty over land to whomever He likes for whatever time period that He chooses.
Whose Land Is Israel?
by Vendyl Jones
I took out a photograph of the above satellite image and pointed out the perfect Hebrew words "Ki-Luz-HaShem-Efraiyim." The accountant was aghast. "How did you make that?" he inquired. When I had to explain that these were just the shadows of the mountains and that the words were written there since the creation, he was dumbfounded. He took the picture and showed it to everyone in the garage.
I'd quibble with this last one -- the writing that can be seen on those photos would have appeared at about the time the Covenant was made, more particularly, when the Cities of the Plain were destroyed.
posted to: BenF; Coroner; DonaldDuke; dennisw; Fred Nerks; HiTech RedNeck; hchutch; inquest; JohnHuang2; King Prout; kallisti; kattracks; lancer; Miron; milford421; Nachum; OpusatFR; Sabertooth; SJackson; SpaceBar; TheSpottedOwl; Think free or die; veronica; YankeeReb; Yehuda

26 posted on 06/24/2004 8:06:38 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: OpusatFR

I have long believed the prophesied "last empire" being of western europe was nonsensical. The characteristic beheading mentioned in the book of Revelation fairly shreiks "Islam" to me.


27 posted on 06/24/2004 8:48:45 PM PDT by Woahhs (the choice is not between peace and war, only between fight and surrender.)
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To: SunkenCiv

"Virgins? What Virgins?" Is what I always think of when I see the face of Atta. He gets to the gates of paradise, and allah hands him raisins...

"What the Qur'an Really Says" is incomprehensible - unless one understands the the HOW and WHEN and WHY the 'verses' were 'revealed' to mohammad. Each utterance was nothing but justification of crime.

"Whose Land is Israel?" Reminds me of 'The First Palestinian State' a look at the history of Arafat.
http://www.ourjerusalem.com/opinion/story/opinion20031210.html

And don't forget, America was discovered by islam, as was the Australian continent. Columbus was a muslim. As was Jesus and Abraham...
American Muslim History:
http://www.islam101.com/history/muslim_us_hist.html

Believe it not!


28 posted on 06/24/2004 9:00:46 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (UNDERSTAND EVIL. Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf. Link on My Page.)
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To: veronica

Holy cow!!!!! Good one!


29 posted on 06/25/2004 3:38:15 AM PDT by dennisw (http://www.prophetofdoom.net/)
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To: TheSpottedOwl; Fred Nerks; HiTech RedNeck; King Prout; veronica
In order to understand the 'real Islam' we must look at Qur’an in chronological order and not the way it is published.

Pay attention kiddies. Maybe you know this already, maybe you don't. But the dopey Koran is not arranged chronologically. In contrast, the Jewish Tanach (Old Testament) and the New Testament are chronological. This author's insights come from reading Koran chronologically. Thus the kinder, gentler Meccan verses are easily seen to come early on in Muhammad's career.

From the internet--->>>
The Koran is not organized chronologically like the Bible (which starts at Genesis, the beginning, and ends with Revelations, the end days). Instead, the chapters of the Koran are ordered from longest to shortest.

 

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:SUH8_NMCfMIJ:iranscope.ghandchi.com/Anthology/Islam/IbnWarraqWTC.htm+%22Cast+terror+in+the+hearts,+smite+the+neck%22&hl=en

What should we make with these further  unfortunate verses from the Qur’an:

*Torment to Non-believers->IV.56 
*Only Islam Acceptable-> III.85
* No friends from outsiders->III.118
*No friends with Jews, christians->V. 51
* No friends with non believers->IV.144, III.28
* No friends with parents/siblings if not believers->IX.23
* Fight non-believers->IX.123 * Kill non-believers->IV.89
*Anti Jewish verses->V.82
* God a "plotter"->VIII.30
*Killing Idolators->IX.5
* Idolators are unclean just because they are idolator->IX.28
* Forcing non-believers to pay tax->IX.29
* The Torment of Hell->XLIV.43-58
* All except Muslims/Jews/Christians/Sabeans will go to hell->II.62, V.69
* Cast terror in the hearts, smite the neck and cut fingertips of unbelievers->VIII.12
* Smite the neck of unbelievers->XLVII.4
*  Severe Punishment for atheists->X.4 ; V.10 ; V.86
*  Severe Punishment for non-believers->XXII.19-22 ; LXXII.23, XCVIII.6
*Punishing non-believers of Hereafter->XVII.10
* Punishing for rejecting faith->III.91
* Non believers go to hell->IV.140 ; VII.36 * Partial Believers go to hell too->IV.150-1
* Sadistic punishments->LVI.42-43
* Punishment for apostates->XVI.106 ; III.86-88 ; III.90 ; IV.137.
* Threat of punishement for not going to war->IX.38-39, XLVIII.16
 *God making someone more sinful so he can be punished more->III178
*Intentionally preventing unbelievers from knowing the truth->VI.25 ; VI.110
* Intentionally preventing unbelievers from Understanding Quran->XVII.45-46
* It is God who causes people to err and He punishes them for that->XVII.97
* God could guide, if he chose to, but did not->VI.35
* Intentionally misguiding those whom he pleases to->XIV.4
* Willfully misguiding some->XVI.93
* God causes human to err->IV.143 ; VII.178
* God deceiving humans->IV.142

30 posted on 06/25/2004 4:02:29 AM PDT by dennisw (http://www.prophetofdoom.net/)
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To: OpusatFR
What I say is going to be really politically incorrect, but from my view, Islam is the AntiChrist. It denies the Divinity of Christ. It also transgresses against the last lines of The Revelation which state that nothing is to be added, and nothing is to be taken away.

This is a great article. I don't think that Mohammed (a demon-possessed pedophile according to Franklin Graham) was THE Anti-Christ -- in my opinion, he was one of a long line of lesser anti-christs sent by Satan to both lead the faithful astray and war against the remaining faithful. Even ideologies such as Communism and Nazism may have been Satanically-inspired.

31 posted on 06/25/2004 4:31:19 AM PDT by Siamese Princess
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To: *balkans

Bump


32 posted on 06/25/2004 10:19:15 AM PDT by Dragonfly
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To: Dragonfly

bump and ping for later reading ...


33 posted on 06/25/2004 10:24:32 AM PDT by 68 grunt (3/1 India, 3rd, 68-69, 0311)
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To: dennisw

"In order to understand the 'real islam' we must look at Qur'an in chronological order and not the way it is published."

And the best way to do this, is to read the biography of mohammad.

Discover when and why and how the 'verses' he 'recited through the intermediary of the archangel Gabriel'

Each utterance was nothing but a self-serving justification for criminal activity. The 'prophet' was a warlord. An evil, conniving psychopath.

Allah has the mindset of an arab. Allah thinks like mohammad. Ever wondered why?

Download this free biography written by an eminent historian - published in 1913 - it includes ancient arabic sources in the numerous footnotes.

Understand the cult of mohammad - understand islam. See my tagline.


34 posted on 06/25/2004 4:41:16 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (UNDERSTAND EVIL. Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf. Link on My Page.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Thank you for this...keep me on the list


35 posted on 06/26/2004 8:21:12 AM PDT by milford421
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To: veronica

An excellent thread! I skimmed over it, and will read it in depth later.


36 posted on 06/26/2004 8:29:39 AM PDT by Destructor
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To: OpusatFR

I agree. No one can make a good argument for Islam being a true "religion of peace." It's a big lie that is being perpetuated by the media.


37 posted on 06/26/2004 8:33:02 AM PDT by Destructor
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BTTT...


38 posted on 06/26/2004 12:12:25 PM PDT by veronica (Hate-triotism, the religion of leftists, liberals, anti-semites, and other cranks...)
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To: Fred Nerks

Thanks!


39 posted on 06/26/2004 5:14:38 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: milford421
You're most welcome. I don't have a list per se, I just gathered up the user names who'd already posted here, or were posted to, sorted 'em, and removed duplicates.
George W. Bush will be reelected by a margin of at least ten per cent

40 posted on 06/26/2004 5:16:54 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: veronica
I support the nuclear test ban treaty. We should eliminate ALL nuclear weapons from this planet.

No nation should have nuclear weapons.



Instead, they should all drop their spare nukes here:


41 posted on 06/26/2004 5:22:00 PM PDT by Cronos (W2K4!)
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