Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Relationship Between The Basque And Ainu
High Speed Plus ^ | 1996 | Edo Nyland

Posted on 06/25/2004 3:44:16 PM PDT by blam

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-93 next last
To: blam

The biggest danger in social science is the allure of romantic wistfulness.


21 posted on 06/25/2004 9:14:52 PM PDT by Old Professer (Interests in common are commonly abused.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

Before or after the Super Bowl?


22 posted on 06/25/2004 9:16:18 PM PDT by Old Professer (Interests in common are commonly abused.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: blam

Since you have an interest in archaeology, how do you go back and review posts you made years ago? Is there a shortcut, or do you just have to back up in the My Comments screen for hours?


23 posted on 06/25/2004 9:18:52 PM PDT by ovrtaxt ((David): It's such a fine line between stupid an'...(Derek): ...and clever.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Old Professer
'Coming of age in Samoa' comes to mind? Romantic wistfulness notwithstanding, she presented her twisted fantasies as truth.

Kind of like MIchael Moore.

24 posted on 06/25/2004 9:21:21 PM PDT by ovrtaxt ((David): It's such a fine line between stupid an'...(Derek): ...and clever.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Polybius; motife
Some think the Basque are an isolated remnant of Cro Magnon man in Europe. ~ motife

When mention that to my half-sister, whoser father has Basque roots, she is never amused. :-) ~ Polybius

Perhaps you should mention that the Cro-Magnon had bigger brains that modern Homo Sap...

25 posted on 06/25/2004 9:25:52 PM PDT by null and void (Time flys. My time crawls, like an insect, up and down the walls...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: ovrtaxt
People of color will soon dominate in terms of sheer numbers and yet one sees no mass migration of people while many small accomodational moves are reflected in neighborhoods; the article here is operating from a premise that there is both a migration and an exile-as-motor-response to account for people quite geographically diverse over a considerable time in history.

It doesn't really make a lot of sense.

26 posted on 06/25/2004 9:31:47 PM PDT by Old Professer (Interests in common are commonly abused.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Old Professer
"It doesn't really make a lot of sense."

Sure it does if you add the component missing from this article, the end of the Ice Age.

The last big 'burp' of ice melt occurred rather suddenly about 8,000 years ago. Sundaland (around Indonesia), an area the size of present day India, goes underwater and everyone there has to find somewhere else to live.

Dr Stephen Oppenheimer covers this very well in his book East Of Eden as does Dr Robert Schoch in his book Voyages Of The Pyramid Builders. They both have excellent ideas that the first Sumerians came from Sundaland.

Everywhere in that peroid was flooding and people were migrating everywhere.

27 posted on 06/25/2004 9:57:22 PM PDT by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: ovrtaxt
Go here for the most recent articles. That's the best I can do.

Gods, Graves, Glyphs

I frequently bump into some of my years-old articles doing a search on other things. Also, there are some bookmarked on my profile page.

28 posted on 06/25/2004 10:04:34 PM PDT by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: blam

bttt


29 posted on 06/25/2004 10:13:11 PM PDT by nopardons
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

So the grounds closest to the stem percolated last?


30 posted on 06/25/2004 10:15:55 PM PDT by Old Professer (Interests in common are commonly abused.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: blam
So your an archivist as well? Funny, once I've said something it's gone for whatever no matter how good it sounded at the time.

It ought be simple that types are traceable yet time is lumpy and all crusty on top mostly.

31 posted on 06/25/2004 10:20:03 PM PDT by Old Professer (Interests in common are commonly abused.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Old Professer
"So the grounds closest to the stem percolated last?"

I don't understand what you mean by that.(?)

32 posted on 06/25/2004 10:21:06 PM PDT by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Old Professer
"So you're an archivist as well?"

Nope. Gods, Graves, Glyphs, was set-up by FReeper Ernest_at_the_Beach and it is managed and maintained by FReeper 'farmfriend', I just post'em.

33 posted on 06/25/2004 10:28:49 PM PDT by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: blam

fascinating


34 posted on 06/25/2004 10:32:44 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Many a law, many a commandment have I broken, but my word never.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

BTTT


35 posted on 06/25/2004 10:42:48 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: blam
"...note the similarity between the names Inuk and Ainu"

Must be hallucinatin'. They're about as similar Gnu and butch.

36 posted on 06/25/2004 11:16:45 PM PDT by Rudder
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale
It seems Yankees can't make a simple vowel sound

One of the greatest complicators of vowels was Katherine Hepburn.

37 posted on 06/25/2004 11:28:08 PM PDT by ValerieUSA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: blam; SunkenCiv

Hey Civ, have you heard of this Edo Nyland?


38 posted on 06/25/2004 11:30:58 PM PDT by ValerieUSA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: blam

Merritt Ruhlen thinks so. He calls it the Dene-Caucasian family. Basque is believed to be distantly related to languages such as Chechen in the Caucasus. Ruhlen thinks those are related to some Siberian languages and to the Athapaskan Indian languages of the Far North and the Southwest (Navajo, Apache, and the Dene languages of Alaska.)

Some people have thought that Basque is directly descended from the languages spoken in Upper Paleolithic Europe, because the Basques are more directly descended from Cro-Magnon man than other Europeans, although the Celtic-speaking peoples are genetically close to the Basques (The origins of Celtic languages are pretty obscure, but it would seem that they originated in central or eastern Europe rather than Britain, Ireland, or Western France.)

Others tend to see languages as being related to gene markers carried by the original speakers (e.g. Spencer Wells) and dismiss the notion of related languages being associated with genetically very different peoples. Have you ever read Journey of Man? It's based on a PBS special that aired last fall, I think.

Wells thinks that Basque is part of a set of languages carried by the earliest farmers to migrate out of the Middle East. These, according to him, may include the languages of the Caucasus, Burushaski (a language spoken by Shiite Muslims in Pakistan), Sumerian, the Etruscan and Pelasgian languages spoken in the Mediterranean before the Greeks and Romans, and Iberian languages of Spain.

He correlates this distribution of languages with the frequency of a genetic marker called M172, which occurs most often in the Caucasus, the Middle East, and the eastern Mediterranean (Greece,Italy,and southern Balkans).

But the Basques have very low frequencies of M172; their marker is M173 (the Upper Paleolithic European marker). So there could be no connection, and Basque really is a relic of the languages spoken in Europe during the last Ice Age, and truly is a linguistic isolate.

OTOH, the Celtic languages are spoken by people who are genetically closer to the Basques than to the original Celtic speakers, so maybe the Basques adopted Basque from the first farmers to migrate into Spain, just like the Irish and Scots adopted Celtic from elites originating in continental Europe (probably in the early Bronze Age- remember the Amesbury archer?) who left little or no genetic trace in the extreme west of Europe.

Wells favors the Kurgan hypothesis (Gimbutas) for Indo-European origins, so he doesn't think IE languages correlated with the first farmers in Europe (why he thinks M172 is associated with a mostly extinct substratum of languages). Recent evidence (I'll post it when I find it) from using new methods to analyze language evolution supports the Wave of Advance model (Renfrew, Gamkrelidze-Ivanov that says first farmers = proto Indo-European speakers.

It's an open question; you can't talk about the origin of the Basques without touching on the origin of IE languages.


39 posted on 06/25/2004 11:44:14 PM PDT by monkeyman81
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: SwedeCon

I agree. It is absurd. One could say there is a genetic relationship between Basque and Ainu, but not linguistic. Regarding the genetic relationship, it's fairly weak (Basques and Ainu are presumably genetically closer to each other, for example, than Basques are to people from southern India, or Ainu to Australian Aborigines). The relationship is this: Wells points to a common origin for Europeans and northern Asians/American Indians in Central Asia about 35,000 years ago (associated with a Y-chromosome lineage called M45). The Ainu might be a relic population of this ancestral group, as might the apparently extinct Paleo-American population to which the Kennewick and Spirit Cave men belonged. The Basques are a relic of the earliest European lineage to derive from the common Central Asian ancestor (the M173 lineage which I talked about in my earlier post.)


40 posted on 06/25/2004 11:57:19 PM PDT by monkeyman81
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-93 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson