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The Relationship Between The Basque And Ainu
High Speed Plus ^ | 1996 | Edo Nyland

Posted on 06/25/2004 3:44:16 PM PDT by blam

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To: shamusotoole


61 posted on 06/27/2004 7:54:23 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Well, I don't know... I still can't find it in the books.
George W. Bush will be reelected by a margin of at least ten per cent

62 posted on 06/30/2004 10:25:03 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: blam

"I read the same about the early people found on the Canary Islands. Cro-Magnon had a larger brain than all humans today. (Did they have a higher IQ?)"

My head is huge and (judging by an MRI) so is my brain. Unfortunately for me that does not = high IQ.

I just have a huge freekin' cromag noggin. :)

63 posted on 08/10/2004 11:34:46 AM PDT by myheroesareDeadandRegistered
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To: myheroesareDeadandRegistered

The CroMagnon skulls on average are larger than human average today, but so are those of Neandertal. Obviously there's a great deal of overlap, and the number of samples of the non-extant drifts are small. :')

64 posted on 08/10/2004 9:50:17 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: SunkenCiv

I don't think this ever made it to the GGG Ping list.

65 posted on 11/29/2004 5:12:59 PM PST by blam
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No ping, just the updated contact information.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest
-- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

66 posted on 11/29/2004 9:52:51 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
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To: blam

Interesting post (as usual) blam. I'd just like to remind everyone that in comparative linguistics you have to be very careful in drawing conclusions from a small number of pairs of matched words. In any pair of unrelated languages, each of a few thousand words, with only a limited number of consonantal and vowel combinations, one predicts a small number of matches by pure chance. One needs to show that the number of independent matches are significantly larger than would be generated by chance.

67 posted on 12/03/2004 11:08:29 AM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: blam

The Ainu are Veda, as are Australian Aborigines, they were the first major human population of the world, their skeletons have been found in Tierra del Fuego and evidence in caves suggest they were there up to 60,000 years ago.
They were the first builders of cities 15,000 years ago, now found around India in 120m of water, They were the bringers of culture to the Middle East. At the same time, according Aztec history, was "the age of the white haired bearded giants", it was these people who built Atlantis - in the Caribbean. The great calamity that caused a rapid rise in sealevel 11,600 years ago almost wiped out both these great seafaring civilizations who together, mapped the world. These ancient maps of the Sea Kings, trace the coastlines as it was when the sea was over 140m below the present level.
(See Porcupine Banks was once Hy Brasil off Ireland)
Both the black Veda and white Atlanteans are likely to have spoken the same language as suggested by the above article (on Basques).
Survivors of Atlantis eventually blossomed into "Age of the Red Heads" they continued some seafaring and astronomy, but not on as grand a scale as their ancestors. Maps were merely copied from the ancient sea kings.
These red heads suffered another calamity about 7,000 years ago when the Bahaman Banks went under water and some survivors sailed via the Gulf Stream to Ireland, Wales and Scotland, to become the Gaelic Celts as well as the Basques and Berbers. Others travelled inland into North America (Anasazi, Hopi and Algonkians) and others travelled to South America (red hair, green eyed Araucanians).
I suspect that the red heads in China were a fragment of this break up.
so were the Egyptians.
They must have taken the North Pacific current to China.
Fragments of the red head culture also traded along the west coast of America in balsa rafts from 400 BC to 400AD. The red haired Paracas Mummies were these people.
Eventually they found their way to Easter Island and other Isolated pockets across the Pacific.
The next age according to Aztec history was the "Age of the Black Haired People". This started in America 5,500 years ago. According to genetics, a calamity befell these people 6,000 years ago and survivors of a great East Asian civilization (from which Tibetans, Thais,Taiwanese, Haida and Hawaiians came from) travelled via the Kuroshio current to the west coast of Canada, California, Central and South America. These people interbred with the remaining red heads to form present day Amerindians. Genetics does show a basal Paleolithic Caucasian layer in some Amerindians.
After 4000 years in Canada, one group left Haida Gwaii and sailed to Hawaii to begin the 2000 year reign of Polynesian Kings and Queens in the Pacific.
On the lost tribe of Israel thing, well the most likely trail is via the Cape of Good Hope, across to South America and then follow the trail of Ur names up both the Amazon and through Uruguay to Lake Titicaca where one finds the Uros people living the life of the Indus birdmen and Tigris swamp people on floating reed beds. People who worshipped Ra, the Egyptian Sun God. these people probably left the middle East when the Barbaric Aryans invaded from the north. These Aryans also destroyed what was left of the ancient Veda civilization - The Harrappan civilization.
Sifting through the remains of the city is when the Aryans finally thought about becoming civilized.
I hope this answers a few questions the reader might have.

68 posted on 12/23/2004 4:25:57 AM PST by peterpanther
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To: peterpanther
Very, very interesting, thanks for your addition. Your input is not to far from my current ideas on this whole subject.

BTW, welcome to Free Republic...and, Merry Christmas.

69 posted on 12/23/2004 7:17:48 AM PST by blam
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To: peterpanther; JimSEA
I've been heavily influenced by Dr Stephen Oppenheimer's excellent book.

Eden In The East

Book Description

A book that completely changes the established and conventional view of prehistory by relocating the lost 'Eden' - the cradle of civilisation - to Southeast Asia


At the end of the Ice Age, Southeast Asia formed a continent twice the size of India. The South China Sea, the Gulf of Thailand and the Java Sea, which were all dry, formed the connecting parts of the continent. Geologically, this half-sunken continent is the Sunda shelf of Sundaland. In Eden in the East Stephen Oppenheimer puts forward the astonishing argument that here in Southeast Asia was the cradle of civilisation that fertilised the great cultures of China, India, Mesopotamia, Egypt and Crete six thousand years ago. He produces evidence from ethnography, archaeology, oceanography, from Creation stories, myths and sagas, and from linguistics and DNA analysis, to argue that this founder-civilisation was destroyed by the catastrophic flood, caused by a rapid rise in sea level at the end of the last Ice Age.

From the Author

'Eden in the East'overturns conventional ideas of the origins of western civilization in Mesopotamia. In this book I place Southeast Asia for the first time as the key to the first roots of civilisation. At the same time I provide scientific explanations for numerous, and previously unexplained, cultural links between early Eastern and Western cultures. Notable among these links are the hundreds of myths of a great flood which forced people into boats and left only a few survivors. I can now identify this flood as the dramatic rise in sea level at the end of the ice age that suddenly inundated vast areas of Eurasia. In other words the Biblical Flood really did occur. It had its most disastrous effects, however, in the continent of Southeast Asia - now a lost and half-sunken Eden.

As the Ice Age ended, there were three catastrophic and rapid rises in sea level. The last of these, which finished shortly before the start of civilization in Mesopotamia, may have been the one that was remembered. These three floods drowned the coastal cultures and all the flat continental shelves of Southeast Asia. As the sea rolled in, there was a mass emigration from the sinking continent. These flood-driven refugees, carried their domestic animals with them in large ocean-going canoes in all directions. The networks of sea trade, created by their settlements around the Indian Ocean, fertilized the Neolithic cultures of China, India, Mesopotamia and Egypt.

The Southeast Asian contributions to the building of the first cities in Mesopotamia may not have been solely technological. While they may have brought the new ideas and skills of megalithic construction cereal domestication, sea-faring, astronomy, navigation, trade and commerce, they may also have introduced the tools to harness and control the labour of the farmers and artisans. These included magic, religion, and concepts of state, kingship and social hierarchy.

The evidence:

While most alternative prehistories are based more on speculation than fact, I have found some very solid evidence; and have built on the work of specialists in many fields in addition to my own research, to support a comprehensive new picture.

The most solid facts come from oceanographic research of the last decade. It now appears that the great rise in sea level after the last ice age, known about for many years, was not gradual; three sudden ice-melts, the last of which was only 8000 years ago, had catastrophic effects on tropical coasts with flat continental shelves. Rapid land loss was compounded by superwaves, set off by cracks in the earth s crust as the weight of ice shifted to the seas.

Archaeology holds the most accurately dated clues to the past. I have devoted two chapters to archaeological evidence found on coasts and in caves throughout the Indo-Pacific region. All of the technological 'firsts' which signalled man's emergence from the long Palaeolithic era towards the end of the Ice Age come from the Pacific Rim islands. These include evidence of deliberate long-distance sailing and grinding of cereal flour in the Solomon islands from 30,000 years ago. The world's first pots, 12,500 years old, come from Japan. The first evidence that swamps were drained for agriculture comes from the New Guinea Highlands 9,000 years ago.

These snapshots hint at a much older history to the discovery of Neolithic skills in the East. The better archaeological preservation of the later stages of human development in Mesopotamia and Egypt, however, has given rise to the view that civilization started in the West.

I review the evidence of the spoken word in the two linguistic chapters. Experts in the history of language now recognise that Southeast Asia not Europe or West Asia was the centre of language dispersal at the end of the Ice Age. The ancestral language of the Micronesians and Polynesians did not come out of China, as has been recently assumed, but further south over 8000 years ago out of the drowning islands of Indonesia. As the Flood engulfed Indo- China and separated Sumatra from Malaysia the ancestral languages of the Khmers, whose descendants built Angkor Wat, moved west into India.

The most dramatic new findings in this book come out of my own research field. I have published more than 25 scientific papers on the genetic prehistory of the Indo-Pacific region over the past 15 years. Building on my initial work, in Eden in the East I have shown that genetic disorders can be used as people-markers revealing a new view of prehistoric migrations in the Indo-Pacific region. My latest finding, made in collaboration with the Oxford Institute of Molecular Medicine, was published in the American Journal of Human Genetics in October 1998. This paper arose directly out of my research for Eden in the East. It provides compelling evidence that Polynesians and other argonauts of the Indian and Pacific Oceans originated in eastern Indonesia back in the Ice Age rather than in China, as previously thought. This finding alone forces the realisation that the Polynesians' skills of sailing, navigation, astronomy and agriculture had their origins, back in Indonesia, during the Ice Age.

Another objective tool that I use to explore ancient East-West cultural influence in the last part of the book is comparative mythology. Uniquely shared folklore shows that counterparts and originals for nearly every Middle Eastern and European mythological archetype, including the Flood, can be found in the islands of eastern Indonesia and the southwest Pacific. Southeast Asia is revealed as the original Garden of Eden and the Flood as the force which drove people from Paradise.

My multidisciplinary approach to prehistoric enquiry has been recognised in the academic fields of linguistics and comparative folklore. I have been invited to present papers on my work on prehistory at international linguistic meetings. This year I contributed a chapter to a book on Flood myths in the Moluccas published by the Department of Languages and Cultures of Southeast Asia and Oceania, Leiden University (Netherlands). --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

70 posted on 12/23/2004 7:37:29 AM PST by blam
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To: peterpanther
"At the same time, according Aztec history, was "the age of the white haired bearded giants", it was these people who built Atlantis - in the Caribbean."

I'm leaning toward the Sundaland area as the location of Atlantis...prior to the last surge of Ice Age melt 7-8,000 years ago.
It was this surge that opened up the Strait Of Mallacca(sp) and allowed migrants/refugees to head in that direction by boat/ship to Mesopotamia...wise men from the east?

71 posted on 12/23/2004 8:01:19 AM PST by blam
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To: blam

I am yet to read East of Eden, I look forward to doing so.
Graham Hancocks book Kingdoms of the Ice Age covers the ancient Veda Civilization off India and the Underwater megalithic structures off Yonaguni and Okinawa. I would be surprised not to find ancient underwater structures off Southern Thailand, Borneo and the Phillippines. S.E. Asia and its Archepelago of islands would have been a perfect place for a civilization to flourish, with a great many environments to exploit and many navigational challenges across the sea. The Caribbean is also an archepelago that would have provided similar challenges. Two perfect places for civilizations to begin.
But ancient Polynesian history say they came from Irihia, (Sri Lanka and southern India (home of the Kerala) then lived in "Long skinny land" (Taiwan banks to Japan, once out of water) and then very large land (Canada) This genealogy goes back 16,000 years. Their only genetic contact with S.E. Asian populations appears to be around 11,500 years ago, when they ceased contact with Melanesians. Genetics say they left Taiwan 6000 years ago splitting from Tibetans, Thais and Taiwanese. Genetics and Hawai'ian genealogy say they left Canada 2200 years ago, arriving in Hawai'i form Haida Gwai'i (Queen Charlotte Is)
Their arrival in Canada correlates with the beginning of the age of the black haired people - an exodus from Asia - at the same time there was an Exodus of red heads from America. Polynesian blood can be found in the Maya and Pima. With their keeness to Tattoo I suspect it was a branch of these people that continued on to Europe to become the Picts of Scotland and possibly the Etruscans of Italy.
Platos story of Atlantis correlates perfectly with the Caribbean and America. - out through the straits of Hercules(Straits of Gibraltar) 40 days sail - (to America) three large islands (Hispaniola, Cuba and Bahaman Banks) being the gateway to a continent as big as Africa and Asia put together (North and South America) His date for the destruction correlates with records of a rapid rise in sea level at the time and it also correlates with genetic evidence showing when Celts left Spain (As Cro Magnon man or as a Solutrean) apon his arrival in America he was renamed a Clovis hunter. He was very tall 8-10 feet. In Greek legend he was called a Titan.In Aztrec legend he was part of "The age of the white haired bearded giants" .
This is obviously a separate civilization flourishing in the Caribbean to Oppenheimers East of Eden. I am most certain these Ice Age civilizations had trade contact. Why wouldn't they?
I think we have severely underestimated mans seamanship ability in ancient times.

72 posted on 12/27/2004 1:59:30 PM PST by peterpanther
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To: blam

b ump

73 posted on 12/27/2004 2:05:19 PM PST by Centurion2000 (Truth, Justice and the Texan Way)
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To: peterpanther
"I think we have severely underestimated mans seamanship ability in ancient times."


Oppenheimer has changed my ideas about some things. I have his book, "Out Of Eden", on order.

74 posted on 12/27/2004 9:04:07 PM PST by blam
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To: Rudder

Sounds like you don't know nuthin' bout this topic Rudder!;)Now one critical question that this discussion[+article+book] raises is what race are the basques? Not only are they linguistically isolated, they're genetically isolated as well. Just because they "look white" doesn't mean that they are genetically 100% caucasoid and have caucasoid lineage.Their contemporary appearance has a lot to do with 1000s of years of intermarriage with white europeans. The same is true for the hungarians who were originally a mongoloid people[phenotypically] but now pretty much look "white" too.Genetics seems to suggest that Basques, Hunza's and Ainu's[possibly Jomons as well] are surviving fragments of an unknown human race/ethnic division which migrated to those regions before any one else did.Analagous to the australoid peoples of S Asia and australia.

75 posted on 02/01/2005 9:13:12 AM PST by Zivatar
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To: Zivatar
Inuk and Ainu: do these two words appear similar to you?

That was the topic of my post.

76 posted on 02/01/2005 9:23:07 AM PST by Rudder
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To: monkeyman81

Can you cite your sources for this information?
Not to mention have you come across anything suggesting a genetic link between the Ainu and the Hunzas.

77 posted on 02/01/2005 12:58:43 PM PST by Zivatar
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To: Zivatar

I have not actually read anything about a genetic link between the Ainu and the Hunza but I found this article here:

No tell me monkeyman81, what do you know about the racial characteristics of the basques? Can you give me some citations about this topic as well?

78 posted on 02/01/2005 1:06:14 PM PST by Zivatar
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To: blam

Proto Celts with their un-European Gaelic language I believe came from America, the home of Atlantis and cradle of European Civilization.
I suspect that the Gaelic language or something similar was spoken by the Red heads of America. It is only a matter of time before we find vestiges of the Gaelic language amongst American Indian languages. The Masonic religion also originated in America. The secret mens society of the blonde Tolai in New Guinea is essentially Masonic, right down to the handshake! Read on.
Aztec and Toltec American history states that between 9,600 years ago and 6,000 years ago was the age of the Red Heads.
Recent genetic studies indicates that Irish, Welsh, Scottish, Basque and Berber genes all left Spain between 18000 and 12,000 years ago (age of white haired bearded giants in America), to return just 6,000 years ago, suggests to me that the cradle of Celtic culture was in America. 6,000 year old Anasazi petroglyphs are almost exactly the same as 6,000 year old Irish petroglyphs. Stonehenge smacks of the Megalithic archway culture of Peru. Star viewing holes in caves are excavated in the same manner on both sides of the Atlantic. Knowledge of Astronomy by the ancient Celts in Europe mirror the knowledge of Astronomy in Nevada, Peru and caves in Cuba. Round stone houses are everywhere these Red Heads have been (even Easter Island).The loom in America is the same as the first looms in Mesopotamia and Egypt. It even appears that these Red Heads brought with them back to the old world, the use of Cocaine (Cocaine mummies) and the first use of copper was also in America over 9,000 years ago.
American Indians evolved from this Caucasian base into how we know them today as a result of an Asian influx after 6,000 years ago.
Aztec age of the Black Heads began 5,500 years ago. This matches exactly with the dispersal of genes from the Taiwan/Okinawa area. The megalithic ruins in 20m of water off Yonaguni testify to a great civilization once existing in this area. Genes of these people can be found in the Tibetans, Thais, Taiwanese, Orochon, Tlingit, Haida, Hawaiian, Maya and Maori.
Not only do Hawaiians talk of a great flood causing them to leave their homeland, where they floated to Alaska from the 'long skinny land' (Taiwan to Japan) on a big tree, but legends around the Caribbean and of the Anasazi tell of a heavy rain falling for many days and many were drowned. It was this deluge that separated their islands from the mainland.Little by little subsequent tempests submerged the lands of the Bahamas, separating the people from one another by arms of the sea. These legends most likely tell of the polar meltdown around 6,000 years ago
Scientists have identified a particularly warm period between 7,000 and 5,500 years ago, where much of Antarcticas sea ice disappeared. Maps of the Antarctic coastline(without ice), South America and Greenland(with rivers instead of Glaciers) was most likely done by the red heads during this warm period.
The Bahama Banks was once a large island and was most likely the home for many Seafaring Red Heads, as it was the stepping off point for voyages back to Europe and was also at the end of the Northern Equatorial current, the route that these ancient sailors would have taken from the mouth of the Mediterranean.
Many of these people would have escaped by boat and cruised on the Gulf Stream back to the Coastline of Europe, giving rise to the megalithic cultures of England, France and Spain that sprang up around this time.
Araucanians of Chile possess 12,000 year old Caucasian genes and commonly have red hair and green eyes. They are also 19% Rhesus negative, the same genes as the Irish and Basques.
A Cro Magnon man skeleton recently found in a tomb in Tierra del Fuego gives wieght to the idea that the Atlantic posed no barrier to ancient man. Kennwick man was also Causasian, he was also a Paleo-Indian. Not only this but archaeologists are finally admitting that the Solutreans of Spain were the same culture as the Clovis hunters of America.
I believe that red heads evolved in one place (America) but dispersed through time to all corners of the globe. I believe that celtic looking fortifications in the Pacific are not from Celts from Britain, but are from the proto Celtic cultures of America. The Celtic motifs on Lapita pottery was also most likely from some branch of these proto Celts of America. By the way, the beginning of Lapita pottery is located in the centre of a group of islands north of New Guinea that exhibit blond and red haired Melanesians (Tolai and people of Missima)

Here is an excerpt from an article posted in Enigma,1996:
The "discovery" of the oldest known mummy in North America helps confirm that a significant civilization existed in America around this time. The mummy, named the Spirit Cave man, was found on the shelves of the Nevada State Museum. Discovered in Nevada in 1940 it was originally thought to be 2000 years old. Recent radiocarbon dating has pushed its age back to 9,400 years (7,400 BC).
The most intriguing facts is that the mummy was wearing moccasins and shrouds of woven marsh plants. The weave of the shrouds indicates that it was made on a loom. If these findings turn out to be true it would mean that the there were people in North America more than 9,000 years ago with the knowledge and technology to weave cloths on looms. Such a level of sophistication again pushes back the dates of early civilization and should makes us question some long held assumptions about the primitiveness of ancient people. DNA and other tests are being undertaken.
It does not say what coloured hair this mummy had, but I suspect that it to be either blonde or red.

Peter Marsh
Author of Polynesian Pathways website, soon to become world pathways.

79 posted on 02/26/2005 5:58:26 AM PST by peterpanther
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To: peterpanther

O believe theree is pretty good archeological and linguistic evidence that Hawaii was among the last of the islands of Polynesia to be settled, not the first.

80 posted on 05/04/2005 11:53:49 AM PDT by Restorer
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