Posted on 07/01/2004 5:58:38 PM PDT by neverdem
About one in six soldiers returning from the war in Iraq shows signs of post-traumatic stress disorder or other emotional difficulties, researchers are reporting today.
Lower levels of psychiatric problems were found among troops who served in Afghanistan.
The study, published today in The New England Journal of Medicine, is the first to examine the mental health of troops returning from Iraq.
The researchers surveyed more than 6,000 soldiers in the months before and after service in Iraq or Afghanistan. Almost 17 percent of those who fought in Iraq reported symptoms of major depression, severe anxiety or post-traumatic stress disorder, compared with about 11 percent of the troops who served in Afghanistan.
The rates were slightly higher than those found among soldiers in the 1991 Persian Gulf war, and lower than the rates in Vietnam veterans. But mental health studies of soldiers in those earlier conflicts were carried out years — in the case of Vietnam, decades — after the troops returned home. The new study examined soldiers before deployment and within three to four months after they returned.
"In the Vietnam era, post-traumatic stress disorder hadn't even been recognized as a disorder," said Dr. Charles W. Hoge, lead author of the study and chief of the department of psychiatry and behavioral sciences at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research. "It wasn't until 10 or 15 years later that many of the experiences the soldiers were having were recognized as P.T.S.D. Because of those lessons, we're now trying to take a more proactive approach to mental health."
He and other experts said that every war imposed unique pressures. Soldiers in Iraq have more contact with the enemy and more exposure to terrorist attacks than did troops in the earlier Iraq war.
National Guardsmen and Reserve troops are playing a larger role. At the same time, soldiers in Iraq have more public support than did the veterans returning from Vietnam.
The finding that rates of psychiatric problems among the soldiers returning from Iraq were higher in the new study than those among troops who were in Afghanistan reflects their greater exposure to combat, the researchers said. More than 90 percent of the Iraq troops reported having been shot at, while among those returning from Afghanistan, 66 percent said they had been attacked.
In each group, those who had the largest number of symptoms were also the ones least likely to seek help, the study found. More than half the soldiers who met the criteria for a psychiatric disorder reported that they had not sought help out of fear that they would be stigmatized or their careers would be harmed.
Whether the percentage of troops experiencing post-traumatic stress will change over time is unclear, but most experts say that the figures are likely to increase.
Dr. Robert Rosenheck, a professor of psychiatry and public health at Yale and director of the Department of Veterans Affairs Northeast Program Evaluation Center, said it was possible that some soldiers were experiencing symptoms but had not yet recognized them.
In the late 1990's, a long-term study of veterans of the Persian Gulf war found that the prevalence of post-traumatic symptoms more than doubled between an initial survey and a second one two years later. Based on those findings, and the continued fighting in Iraq, the percentage of returning soldiers with post-traumatic symptoms could still go up, said Dr. Matthew J. Friedman, director of the Department of Veterans Affairs at the National Center for Post-traumatic Stress Disorder.
"We know from research on soldiers deployed to Somalia in the early 90's that as the nature of the mission changed from peacekeeping to the capture of warlords, the prevalence of P.T.S.D. went up," he said. "The current study was conducted back when the war was one of liberation."
Another variable is the increasing numbers of National Guard and Army Reserves troops that are being sent overseas. Because they receive relatively little warning before deployment and are often less prepared for combat than soldiers in regular units, Dr. Friedman said, Guard and Reserves troops are more prone to post-traumatic stress.
"This study was only about those who were exposed to things that, in essence, were part of their jobs," he said. "There is a major concern about how Guard and Reserve troops are going to fare, particularly now that their tours are being extended."
BTW, I'm pretty sure that units from the reserves undergo 90 days of active duty training prior to deploying overseas.
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Same smear the Left smeared VN Vets with....
About one in six street punks suffer stress related disorder. Naturally they will recieve better care and compensation than our GI's and nore sympathy.
So what else is new?
My son is doing great after a 13 month deployment, and 11 in the Sunni triangle.
He was well prepared, and well cared for after coming home.
I see this as more anti-Bush, anti-military spin.......
Mental health warning on US soldiers
My initial post on the topic:
This is nothing new. When I was a kid, there was a guy in my neighborhood who had been hiccuping about once a second continuously since World War II, over twenty years at the time.
I never talked to him, but you could hear him down the block when he went outside, which wasn't often. Over a period of years, every time I saw him, he was hiccuping, and it was rather loud, too.
I don't know if it's true, but other kids in the neighborhood said he started hiccuping when he fell onto the rotted, putrid body of a German soldier in a trench during the war. Whatever it was that started him hiccuping, it must have been pretty bad.
War is hell.
If you are inclined to reply to this post, you may want to see some of my other posts on that thread, starting with this one.
I have a son that spent 13 months over there with most of the time at BIAP. He is going back in Jan. and is OK with it.
He's considering training for Special Ops.
God bless your son, mom. And God be with YOU!
So what!!! 1 in 6 people off any street in any city suffer stress disorder, if not even higher.
I have to agree...Im sure there are some who are suffering from PTSD...but, for the most part, I think the majority of returning troops are fine.....Mike and his unit lost 3 crewmembers in the chopper that was shot down, they were mortared almost daily,....I have seen no signs of any stress related problems from him or his troops..
I've seen some damn good people ruined by PTSD. If you want to bad mouth them or ignore the truth about what combat stress does to people, then you may want to take a look at why you would do that.
If you support our troops, don't try sweeping their problems under the rug. They need our help not only while they are deployed, but even more after they get back and try to live their lives.
I recommend you try reading this thread from start to finish for a some further insights.
I have a brother in law who suffered deeply from PTSD after Viet Nam. I know what it's about, and am sweeping nothing under the rug here....
And if there is any pontificating going on, it's being done by you.
(btw.......I'm not all that interested in your insights if you trust the NY Times to tell the truth about anything....)
I don't apologize for sneering at the reporting by the NY Slimes. Every rational person in America knows the Slimes doesn't give a damn about the stress suffered by our troops.
It's the GD Times we are bad mouthing. We bad mouth them because they bad mouthing our troops and our President.
Osama Bin Laden cares more about our troops than the NY Times.
2) You evidence a lack of understanding about the subject. I recommend further research. This thread has some good posts from people who know what they're talking about. Check into it.
3) I happen to be one of the "1 in 6", but from service prior to this war. Fifteen years after I did my time, I still wake up screaming some nights, and I didn't go through a tenth of what most Iraq vest have gone through. If you want to give me some grief about it or try to sweep me under the rug, come on out and say it. If not, then please stop implying it in your posts.
All in all, I'm doing fine -- now that I have finally figured out what the problem is and did something about it. But not before it cost me very, very dearly in my life.
Please don't take the tone of my post as an attack, I am not mad and not out to label or insult you. Understand, however, that those of us with "issues" related to our service face apathy, stigma and ridicule, and it just becomes wearying after a while. I don't see malice in your posts, just misunderstanding. Please don't think there is any malice in mine, just frustration borne of years of torment.
Minimalizing or dissembling about the real mental health issues surrounding military service only makes them worse. If you really support our troops, please don't let them down when they need you most.
"I see this as more anti-Bush, anti-military spin......."
Please explain how I misinterpreted that.
Who is minimalizing this, certainly, not I.....I just said I have not seen any signs yet.....
"About one in six street punks suffer stress related disorder. Naturally they will recieve better care and compensation than our GI's and nore sympathy."
So what else is new?
There is nothing in the article about "street punks". The article is about our soldiers.
Why do you think this is bad-mouthing our troops?
Please explain your what you're trying to say.
Supported by the Military Operational Medicine Research Program, U.S. Army Medical Research and Materiel Command, Ft. Detrick, Md.
The views expressed in this article are those of the authors and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Department of the Army, the Department of Defense, the U.S. government, or any of the institutions with which the authors are affiliated. We are indebted to the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research Land Combat Study Team: Lolita Burrell, Ph.D., Scott Killgore, Ph.D., Melba Stetz, Ph.D., Paul Bliese, Ph.D., Oscar Cabrera, Ph.D., Anthony Cox, M.S.W., Timothy Allison-Aipa, Ph.D., Karen Eaton, M.S., Graeme Bicknell, M.S.W., Alexander Vo, Ph.D., and Charles Milliken, M.D., for survey-instrument design and data collection; to Spencer Campbell, Ph.D., for coordination of data collection and scientific advice; to David Couch for supervising the data-collection teams, database management, scanning, and quality control; to Wanda Cook for design and production of surveys; to Allison Whitt for survey-production and data-collection support; to Lloyd Shanklin, Joshua Fejeran, Vilna Williams, and Crystal Ross for data-collection, quality-assurance, scanning, and field support; to Jennifer Auchterlonie for assistance with Defense Medical Surveillance System analyses; to Akeiya Briscoe-Cureton for travel and administrative support; to the leadership of the units that were studied and to our medical and mental health professional colleagues at Ft. Bragg, Ft. Stewart, Camp Lejeune, and Camp Pendleton; to the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research Office of Research Management; to David Orman, M.D., psychiatry consultant to the Army Surgeon General, Gregory Belenky, M.D., and Charles C. Engel, M.D., for advice and review of the study; and, most important, to the soldiers and Marines who participated in the study for their service.
Source Information
From the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, U.S. Army Medical Research and Materiel Command, Silver Spring, Md. (C.W.H., C.A.C., S.C.M., D.M., D.I.C.); and First Naval Construction Division, Norfolk, Va. (R.L.K.).
Address reprint requests to Dr. Hoge at the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, 503 Robert Grant Ave., Silver Spring, MD 20910, or at charles.hoge@na.amedd.army.mil.
Here's a list of the authors of the NEJM article:
Charles W. Hoge, M.D., Carl A. Castro, Ph.D., Stephen C. Messer, Ph.D., Dennis McGurk, Ph.D., Dave I. Cotting, Ph.D., and Robert L. Koffman, M.D., M.P.H.
The article was prepared with the assistance of the government by people who worked for the government. All those initials in the paragraph right after it says Source "Information" at the end of the paragraph, correlate exactly with the names of the authors of the NEJM article.
Fair enough, but I fail to see what relevance that has to the facts of the article, since plenty of us do see the signs.
I think those who have responded are doing so as a result of what they perceive to be typical media slights towards our returning troops. I don't believe there is any dismissal by them of what our returning troops are enduring while re-adjusting to life in the states.
"1 in 6" seems a lowball figure - which was going to be my initial response.
"Please explain what you're trying to say."
I am not trying to say anything-I said it. The NY Times is no friend of our troops, our country, our way of life.
The Times could care less about problems our troops may face, except in whatever ways the famous rag can use it against our side.
Comprende?
Agreed. What pisses me off are those ignorant fools who seek to downplay and stigmatize the problem, treating it as "an attack on Bush" or an "attack on our military". That's a bunch of ignorant crap.
DAMMIT, IT'S A REAL PROBLEM, PEOPLE! It's not our troops' fault!
The reason I rarely comment on it myself is due to the malignant, medieval mindest that holds that because a veteran wakes up screaming in the night, it's because HE's the problem. HE's weak. We should be ashamed of HIM. HE should just suck it up and take it like a man.
I've seen firsthand what this does to people. Families and friendships lost, good friends' lives ruined. Suicides. ENOUGH!
I'll never have any respect for those who insist they are experts about things they don't have a clue about.
Our vets deserve help for their PTSD problems, not ridicule, stigmatization and scorn, some of which I am disgusted to see even in the Free Republic.
Those who think this is a bunch of liberal propaganda, ought to educate themselves about the truth.
I couldn't agree more. We adopted 4 troops for this War on Terror, and out of the 4 - one is not so good. Very depressed and down on things. But I try to cheer him up with letters and care packages. I can understand - a little only because I've never been in a war zone - that he is away from his wife and brand new baby whom he had to leave when the baby boy was 3 days old.
My main concern is keeping his spirits up so he's more alert. I would hate for him to get hurt or worse because he is down on himself and his situation.
Strangely, the most positive of our 4 "boys" is the Combat Medic. I would think he would have a harder time with his station, but he doesn't. He is the most resolute out of them all, and I admire him for it.
Sorry about your PTSD. I'm glad your coping with it better these days. Thanks for the link. When I post articles from the Times I try to pick the most apolitical ones, usually just health and science as well as their right of center OpEd columnists, Brooks and Safire. Try as I might, just the fact that it's the NY Times generates negative comments. Plenty of times it's obvious that those making comments didn't read the article. I'll be reading your link shortly.
If you love our troops more than you hate the NYT, consider the importance of this story.
Yeah I have no use whatsoever for rags that take orders from the Socialist International like the New York Times, but now and then -- whatever the motive -- they print articles worth paying attention to.
PTSD (and other disorders related to exposure to stress and trauma in military service) are very real, but have been taboo subjects for years.
There's a reason so many vets don't like talking about their wartime experiences. My best friend's uncle was one of the first troops into Dachau at the end of WWII. He refused to talk about it to the day he died. No one ever heard his story because of it.
I know so many, far too many, good men whose lives have been ruined by mental health problems stemming from their military service.
I'm one of the lucky ones, I did pretty well for myself, and aside from the occasional screaming nightmare, I can't complain. I can't say the same for some of my other shipmates, though.
I'm not posting to whine about it, it's just important to realize that this is not some "new age touchie feelie stuff". It's a real problem, as old as war, and warriors injured by it deserve recognition, respect and treatment, too.
IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT.
I linked the NEJM article in the 1st comment. The lead author is Col. Hoge, IIRC. Something tells me he would not want to hurt the Army.
hole_n_one how did you obtain that transcript?
Imal, pardon me, thanks for the links.
Ditto! And may God bless them, one and all.
I thought the same thing. There is a lot of stress on the streets in LA. Used to live there.
After spending 20 years in the military...I have to say that there are people who are simply adaptable to ALL situations. And there are people who can't handle alot of stress. The military could actually test someone in basic training and know your profile...and it would be the same for the rest of your career.
I worked with a guy who did a tour in Central America during the mid-80s...and saw a number of his trainees die from combat action. It always bothered him, and I doubt that he will ever be the same. But he doesn't sit around and stress out over that fact...and lives a productive life.
Apparently, only about 20% or so will have lasting problems.
Sucks being one of them, let me tell you. :)
I'm sorry I came off so combative in my posts. I endeavor to keep emotion from clouding my posts on FR as much as possible, but in this case, I failed. It was unseemly, unwarranted and I sincerely apologize.
I really hate revealing personal details, but it seems warranted in this case.
This topic, probably more than any other, sets me off pretty easily, because it bears on a lot of very fine people I have known, served with and loved, including my best friend.
Without going into details, he was a reactor operator like myself, and we went through some of the hard times together. It is common for all involved in serious incidents to feel guilty, "damn I screwed the pooch", "maybe I could have done something better", etc. etc. ad nauseum.
After a particularly bad incident, the stress got to him, and he cut his wrists. I was the one who found him. Fortunately, he was still alive. I wrapped up his wrists, got him to the hospital and he made it.
What was weird, was that dealing with the bleeding didn't bother me. He made it and I was damn glad. What got me was having to help pack up his stuff and send it back to his family. It tore me apart going through his stuff like he was dead.
Don't get me wrong. I was ready to go back on duty and did for years after. It's just that things like PTSD and it's effects aren't something I get to choose not to have. You have it or you don't, like the flu.
And I, myself, used to sneer at those "weaklings" like that mealy-mouthed soldier Patton slapped in the movie, until I got a better taste of what that's all about (although I think Patton did the right thing).
I got back up and went back to duty plenty of times after some serious bad days at sea. That's not the problem. It's what comes after. Years after.
PTSD is not an excuse for sitting around crying and whining and navel watching, but it is a real problem and deserves real, effective treatment.
Again, I'm sorry to come off combative. That's not how I feel. Just frustrated that a problem that can be easily treated, once it is acknowledged, has instead been stigmatized, swept under the rug and just plain lied about since long before I was born. And it vexes me to see that continue.
"Real men don't cry". Well I cried my pathetic eyes out thinking back on what I've seen this do to people. If that means I'm not a real man, too damn bad.
BTTT
THANK you, wingman!
I'm not sure what Imal's problem is and why he is so arrogant and defensive, but I don't see that ANY of us who questioned the spin in this article as having dismissed the actuality of, or concern for, those who return with PTSD.
OF COURSE there will be those for whom the experience created lasting stress, OF COURSE they must be treated, and OF COURSE it is not their fault.
What I was responding to initially (and stand by) is the article itself, and the NYT's constant (and stated) attempts to turn everyone against the war in Iraq (and against the soldiers without stating that outright) in order to defeat Bush in November.
As the mother of a soldier who has been in Iraq, I resent his calling me ignorant because I don't swallow the NYT tripe, hook, line and sinker. He jumped to conclusions and went on the attack with many here, and I'm not sure why.
Now I understand why you misinterpreted our posts.
Having a brother in law who suffered for years (and was not a weak man), I do not dismiss the problem.
I dismiss the NYTimes and the left whose only goal is to defeat President Bush in November, and for me as a military mom, the prospect of John Kerry as CinC scares the life out of me.
I misunderstood you, and am sorry about that.
I spent a lot of time behind the wheel I Iraq, and I noticed when I first got back and into traffic that I kept catching myself about to pull onto the shoulder or into oncoming traffic. I'd also try to drive defensively without thinking about it, and once I almost tapped the leg of my 'turret gunner' (Who obviously wasn't in the sunroof of my Honda) when I was startled to see a cop hiding behind an overpass.
After a week or so I had mellowed out considerably, but I was on edge when I first got back.
That's just a natural extention of spending time with people trying to kill you. Stress, in the right amount, keeps you alert and alive, and shouldn't be discounted out of hand. I'm sure there are some people who've had a harder time letting go of it than others, and I've seen some people who seem to revel in it.
Overall, I think that people had it much harder in Vietnam. The combat was less mobile, many of the people were less prepared and trained, and we don't rotate people, we rotate entire, cohesive units. Iraq is long periods of tedious watching punctuated by the occasional brief but dangerous event. Irrational or not, I think the feeling is that if you don't die right away, (ie in the IED blast or whatever) then your odds are pretty good. It's not like there are large numbers of long, protracted battles.
They do happen, but not nearly as often as midnight raids, roadside IEDs, mortars, or other short term events. I think stuff like that is easier to get over than having hours long gun battles in the jungle.
I hate to break the news to people out there, but about 1 in 6 Americans suffers from a stress disorder.
Keep an eye on it. Things like this have a way of coming back on you when you least expect them.
In my case, I didn't start having "issues" until years after I got out. Fortunately for me, it's relatively mild stuff. I don't live under a bridge, have done well in my career (I'm happily retired in my early '40s) and am quite satisfied with life in general.
But happiness and success in life doesn't necessarily mean "symptom-free". As an example, my mom has a friend (an awesome guy who retired very well off) who was a navigator on a B-17 in WWII. He's fine, quite happy and not doing bad for an old codger in his '80s.
But one winter a few years back, he was driving down a snowy road, and some kids threw a snowball at his car (he later assumed, he didn't see them). The sound of the snowball hitting his car sounded exactly (to him) like the sound of a flak burst hitting the fuselage on a B-17.
It was such a surprise and shock to him that he had to pull the car over and sit there for a few minutes before he could continue. Aside from the shock, it brought back a lot of memories of his days in the "Army Air Forces".
As others have pointed out, it's not just veterans who can have symptoms of PTSD -- which, by the way, is only a "disorder" if it interferes with your ability to enjoy your life and interact with loved ones, family, friends and society. Lots of people show signs, a much smaller percentage are subject to having it wreck their lives.
All that aside, THANK YOU FOR SERVING IN IRAQ. There are many who lack the vision to see just how extremely important the mission there is. But in time, even the dimmest among them will see the truth. THANK YOU!
I think it's probably more than 1 in 6, frankly.
What distinguishes combat/military PTSD is the group that gets it, the common factors that cause it and the fact that so many veterans can relate both to the symptoms and their underlying triggers. Of course, everyone is different, but there is a definite commonality factor for vets, even of different services.
As for non-military, I grew up in some pretty bad parts of town, but nothing like "the projects". I have to imagine that just about everyone in a crime-infested inner city will show symptoms.
I was also in various elements of the computer biz. If you want to talk about psychological "color", look there. I've seen it all.
No problem. I am sorry for the trials you have been through with your friend.
Footnote on that: He's now quite happily married (12th aniversary this year), has a son, nice house, a good income, and we're still best friends.
All's well that ends well.
"As the mother of a soldier who has been in Iraq..."
That is the reason why I wrote my message about you. If anyone has a right to an opinion it is someone who has seen off a loved one.
I'll never forget my mother and father crying when I said good-bye and left for Vietnam. It was one of the few times I had ever seen my dad cry.
My hat is off to you dear lady and thank you for raising such a son as yours.
I have found a fellowship with other parents of those who have in the past gone off to war. We share the same grief mingled with great pride.
The difference now is that my son has been welcomed back with open arms and great love from practically everyone, and it was not so with you brave men who served in Viet Nam.
Our country may never be able to pay the debt we owe for your pain and sacrifice.
Thank you, sir, and welcome home!
My friend is home 3 months now and is showing signs. Not sleeping at night, etc. He would do it again in a heartbeat, in fact, looking forward to his next deployment. I would have him do it again, although what he is suffering and unable to deal with breaks my heart.
He will not admit that anything is going on, missing the first part of getting better, as far as I am concerned. And that behavior is definitely a result of his not wanting to be perceived as "weak."
I am seeing my friend do the exact opposite. He is getting more on edge, easier to upset.
All I can say is when our soldiers went into Iraq, I felt like each one was one of my heroes.
The years have passed quickly and now a new generation is fighting instead of me.
IF there was any debt, it was settled long ago.
Thanks for your posts.
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