Posted on 07/07/2004 9:23:32 AM PDT by milford421
This is from a muslim question and answer forum regarding muslims and the armed forces in non-muslim countries.
Pay particular attention to the edict that muslims are forbidden to fight muslims under any circumstances...
You are missing the point, which is that a Muslim is not allowed to join a Kaffir (non-Muslim) Army. That is the issue about which the questioner is asking the imam. The US Armed Forces are considered a Kaffir Army, as the US is an Infidel country.
Pssst... and guess what? Christians can't join the IDF either... just thought I'd mention it.
If Muslims are prevented from fighting in our armed services (against other Muslims) then shouldn't that be used to EXCLUDE them from immigration to the US.
If you can't serve in the armed forces in times of war, why should we grant immigration or citizenship.
Hoppy
Well, then let's kick out any one, citizen or not, who can't or won't serve regardless of their religion... Seems fair enough.
Interesting, but unfortunately we've got thousands of Muslims in the armed forces fighting and killing other Muslims. In fact, i've got a couple of good friends who've gone and killed in both Afghanistan and Iraq, so i doubt very many following these teachings from some website run out of a closet in some guy's shack.
U.S. Muslim Soldier Dies Trying to Stop Suicide Bomber
Friday, June 11 2004 @ 07:54 AM HST
His family says Capt. Humayun Khan, a Muslim and an American, loved his country and the military. He also believed strongly that peace would be the ultimate outcome of the war in Iraq.
Khan did not live to see that outcome.
The Department of Defense announced the 27-year-old was killed Tuesday in Baquabah, Iraq. It happened when suicide bombers drove into an American compound while Khan was inspecting soldiers on guard duty.
Khan, who lived in Bristow, is the 20th Virginian to die in Iraq.
"Instead of running, he stood foward to the oncoming taxi to prevent it from going inside," said Shahrayar Khan, who is 11 months older than his brother. "Even being in Iraq, surrounded by moral peril, I knew he would do the right thing. That he was there to protect and to save lives."
Flowers and condolences have been arriving at Khan's family home since Wednesday.
The family says Khan was originally scheduled to be home by now, but his stay in Iraq was extended by the military's stop loss program. He last spoke with his mother on May 10, Mother's Day.
"I told him, 'Be safe, please be safe for me.' He said, 'Mother, I am safe. I just have a responsibility for my soldiers,'" said Gazala Khan, Humayun's mother.
Born in the United Arab Emirates, Khan grew up in Silver Spring, Md., and graduated from Kennedy High School in 1996. His family says he joined the ROTC to pay for law school.
His youngest brother describes Khan as a gregarious man who loved basketball.
Being both American and Muslim, his family says Humayun was well liked in Iraq, where he was seen as a bridge between two cultures at war.
Khan's body is at Dover Air Force Base. His family says he will be buried next week at Arlington National Cemetery
The uneasy loyalties of a Muslim soldier
Monday, May 24 2004 @ 10:36 PM HST
By Jon Ward
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Mirza Mahmood Ahmad of Great Falls, Va., recalls his uneasy feelings about his son's deployment to Iraq in January, though he is proud of the young man's service in the Virginia National Guard.
"I said, 'Bashir, you want to go? There is no confusion in your mind? You are a Muslim. You may have to fight against other Muslims.' "
His son was annoyed by the question, Mr. Ahmad says.
"He said, 'First of all, I'm a medic. I won't be fighting.' 'Second,' he said, 'I can't back out' -- because of his loyalty to his fellow soldiers," says Mr. Ahmad, 47, a Pakistani-born U.S. citizen who owns his own international wireless company.
Muslims make up a small minority in the U.S. military and have been regarded with suspicion by other Muslims at home and abroad, as well as by fellow members of the armed services of different faiths who question their enthusiasm for fighting fellow Muslims.
According to the Pentagon's most recent statistics, 4,154 of the 1,399,751 active-duty members of the armed forces, or 0.3 percent, identified themselves as Muslims.
Mr. Ahmad says he must defend his son's presence in Iraq to some at his mosque who question how a Muslim can go to an Islamic country and fight against members of his own religion.
"I have had to explain why Bashir is doing this," he says.
"He's an extremely smart kid," Mr. Ahmad says. "People like Bashir should be in the Army. I think he's making a major contribution."
His son -- Pfc. Mirza Bashir Ahmad, 21, a political science student at Radford University -- serves as a Virginia National Guard medic with the 276th Engineer Battalion out of Richmond.
In an e-mail from Iraq, Pfc. Ahmad said American Muslim soldiers in Iraq must walk a fine line to maintain the trust of their comrades while not offending other Muslims.
"Sometimes ... I get the feeling I am being watched with an evil eye" by other soldiers, Pfc. Ahmad wrote.
"I do often feel like I am viewed with suspicion, but that is always from soldiers who don't know me," he said. "There are always jokes about me helping the terrorists and being a spy, but I shrug it off as humor in bad taste at the wrong time."
Pfc. Ahmad said other soldiers in his unit look to him for leadership in situations with Muslims that require diplomacy.
"People often come to me as an authoritative figure on the politics, religion and culture of the region, and if there requires ... a representative to talk to locals, I will be asked to do so because ... I may be more welcomed," he said.
Mr. Ahmad immigrated to the United States in 1977 and belongs to a Muslim minority that interprets the Koran -- and specifically the idea of jihad, or holy war -- differently from many other Muslims.
"We are not against jihad," he says. "The ignorant majority of Muslims have a wrong interpretation of jihad, which is to fight against non-Muslims. The true interpretation is that any struggle for good -- it could be against yourself -- is jihad."
Mr. Ahmad's brother, a George Mason University graduate and computer expert, was assassinated by Islamic extremists in Pakistan in 1999 because of his views.
Mr. Ahmad does not think his family's situation is particularly noteworthy, he says, and asked not to be photographed. "It's unusual for us, a first-generation American family, in a very awkward time. [September 11] has changed a lot of things."
When I read the information on these Imam sites, and that provided in Post Nos. 7 and 12, what other conclusion can I draw ?
A little Xenophobia might save this Republic.
If we continue in the present direction, with US Forces Muslims fragging other US forces, and Muslim FBI Agents refusing to do their jobs, am I supposed to hang onto a utopian idea of equality, or believe what my eyes and ears are telling me ?
Especially when a tenet of theri religion states that it is permissable to lie to the Infidel for long term advantage.
Good idea.
The Israelis know that equality is not a higher virtue than survival. They know that only those persons having a vested interest in the survival of their state should be trusted to protect it.
It certainly seems fair to me to limit citizenship to those who are willing to bear the costs.
I think your idea has merit.
Pacifists in this country shouldn't vote, since they make it clear that they would't under any circumstances, fight for our survival.
You may be surprised that spiritual texts do not always agree with what the preachers preach. Another good reason to question authority, including religious authority.
Religion doesn't kill people, people kill people.
That's not the point we're talking about. There are lots of Moslems who don't listen to this particular Imam (he admits it in some of his other FAQ's). There are lots of Christians who never listened to David Koresh or Jim Jones. There are lots of Hindus who didn't listen to Maharishi Maraquesh and lots of Buddhists who ignored Alan Ginzberg, etc.
Ain't it great that we all have so much in common?
And God told Moses to write "thou shalt not kill". I don't recall any qualifiers in the commandment, like thou may, however, kill anyone not a member of the 12 tribes of Israel.
Ok, now try and get this implemented - provided it is constitutionally sound.
But the exception does not negate the rule.
When there is a body or branch of Islamic thought that ceases to divide the political world between the Infidel Nations and the nations of Islam, then I will have some other information to consider. Perhaps that branch will develop in the US.
But being sceptical about Muslim loyalty is a rational position until then.
Well, then based on how some factions of Christianity speak, act about our "godless" nation etc... then I guess I have a reason to be sceptical of Christian loyalty as well, eh?
Israel does not let Arab Moslems in its military, not for racist reason but for security reasons. The same should be applied in the US; WE SHOULD NEVER ALLOW MOSLEMS TO SERVE IN OUR ARM FORCES. Remember, the first day of the war, some Moslem American soldiers throw a granade in the tent where his collegues where sleeping.
So that means that ALL muslim servicemen are going to do the same? Get a grip.
No! But they are a poptential risk. There are enough American with no double allegiances to do our fightings.
I'll continue to judge people based on their moral character as individuals - Ya know, the very thing we conservatives are always wanting others to do?
I'll leave the stereotyping of entire groups to people of your ilk.
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