Posted on 07/10/2004 12:38:30 PM PDT by Stoat
Medical science has come a long way in the 400 years since William Harvey discovered the circulation of the blood. Anaesthetics, an appreciation of the importance of clean water, penicillin and cracking the human genome are but a few of its more notable achievements. So why has Gwyneth Paltrow turned the clock back 5,000 years to the ancient Chinese to find relief for her physical ailments?
The actress caused a stir this week when she turned up at a New York film premiere wearing a low-cut black dress and sporting what appeared to be a row of circles on her back. The large, round red weals were in fact marks caused by an alternative therapy known as "cupping".
Variously described as a "form of acupuncture" or "middle-class leeching", it involves placing a heated (preferably, thick) glass cup upside down on the skin. As the air inside the cup cools, it creates a vacuum and, so the theory goes, stimulates blood flow and sucks the "toxins" out of the body.
The treatment is believed to have originated in China and was brought to Europe by the Jesuits in the 13th or 14th century.
It is credited with everything from relieving aches and pains to - in Paltrow's case - helping her find love with her husband, the Coldplay singer Chris Martin.
When in London, Paltrow is treated by Nish Joshi, who has been described as "the super-immunity man to the stars".
Mr Joshi, whose clients also include Cate Blanchett, Ralph Fiennes and Kate Moss, runs a clinic near Harley Street in central London. He offers a range of alternative treatments including acupuncture, homeopathy and Ayurvedic medicine - in which pulse and tongue diagnosis are used "to assist in the herbal treatment of medical conditions without the side-effects of modern medicine".
According to Mr Joshi, "cupping" works by "drawing toxins trapped in the tissues and lymphatic channels into the blood stream" and thereby gives "a kick-start to getting the toxins in our bodies moving".
Used in conjunction with herbal supplements, he promises "dramatic" results, including "freedom from bloating, constipation and lethargy". Cupping sesssions of 30 to 40 minutes at the clinic cost £75 to £90. How many sessions are needed depends on Mr Joshi's assessment.
Arabella Weir, the author and actress, underwent a series of "cupping" treatments at the Joshi Clinic earlier this year as part of a New Year's "detox" programme.
"It feels like twenty 14-year-old boys giving you love bites, but not as much fun," she said yesterday.
"I wouldn't describe it as painful - but then, I've given birth twice - but it is uncomfortable."
But did she feel cleansed? "I had three or four sessions and I didn't feel any different - apart from the fact that I wore a burkha for two weeks afterwards. Why would anyone parade around in a backless dress?
"To be honest, it was comic. As my husband, who is a surgeon, pointed out when I got home: 'Isn't it just a little too convenient that all those toxins are congregated at the top of your skin, just where the cups are?'
"It's just a posh version of leeching - and a damned expensive one at that. I'd rather spend the money on a personal trainer than this hippy claptrap."
Prof Edzard Ernst, the director of the department of complementary medicine at the University of Exeter, also dismisses "cupping".
"It's been around for thousands of years but there's no evidence it works," he said.
"For a start, I'd like them to define what these toxins are in our bodies that are supposed to be poisoning us?
"In any case, we already have a number of organs that detoxify the body. They're called the liver and kidneys, and they're pretty good at it."
It's been around for thousands of years but there's no evidence it works," he said.
"For a start, I'd like them to define what these toxins are in our bodies that are supposed to be poisoning us?
"In any case, we already have a number of organs that detoxify the body. They're called the liver and kidneys, and they're pretty good at it."
I wonder how she knows this?
Somewhere, P. T. Barnum is smiling.
Even if it's 'the placebo effect,' it still worked.
I have a 3 o'clock open Monday, Gwyneth. Bring a suitcase full of Euros. And your own towel.
The placebo effect and the power of the mind over the body is well-documented and not at issue here at all. If something is a placebo, however, it shouldn't be held in the same estimation as an actual treatment....the two are entirely different. One relies on the mind's ability to deal with pain (or fools the mind into overlooking something) and the other addresses either the symptom or the root cause of a given condition through a documented, repeatable and scientifically valid treatment such as a specific medication.
Although it would eliminate it's value as a placebo, it's essential to avoid blurring the lines between the two approaches and holding a silly fad such as this in the same regard as a scientifically-proven treatment, as this has the effect of demeaning the value of all science as being equally ill-defined.
When they start talking about "removing toxins" and other such poorly-defined rationales, it's essential to begin asking simple questioins such as "what toxins are you talking about" and "define for me the physiological mechanism by which this occurs".
Evasive or incoherent answers to such simple questions identifies the "treatment" as being in the realm of either superstition or placebo.
I wonder how she knows this?
Maybe she asked That teacher from Fla. Debra Beasley. Sounds like something she'd know.
Somewhere in America right now is a teen-age boy heating a hastily emptied olive jar in the microwave.
"As the air inside the cup cools, it creates a vacuum and, so the theory goes, stimulates blood flow and sucks the "toxins" out of the body."
I can think of some folks who need the cups placed over their mouths, thereby ridding them of their nasty old "toxins."
Pathetic!!!
"THIS WAY TO THE EGRESS - 5¢"
Gwyneth Paltrow has been concentrating her time on the study of political philosophy in the 21st century. She does not have time to also become an expert in medicine. After she masters political science and astronomy and physics and theoretical mathematics, I am sure she will turn her brilliant mind to healing and medicine.
Whenever you hear anything about removing toxins you should know it's a scam unless it removes the deadly toxin of liberalism.
I can't believe that nobody posting here has heard of 'cupping'!
I KNOW it works for respiratory problems. I had it done the first time 4 years ago, after a persistant cough would not respond to antibiotics, inhalers, and some other pretty strong 'western' treatment. I was going to an accupuncture-ist for other issues and she suggested it. It worked on the first try.
It does seem a bit 'barbaric', small shallow glass cups are 'barely' wiped with rubbing alcohol, and then lit on fire. The fire is immediately extinguished and the cup pressed down on the back. The suction is created by the just-extinguished flame. It burns, but not from the heat, from the strong focused suction. They are left on for around 10 minutes and then pryed off. She then rubbed the back with tiger balm.
Then, 4 years later I got the same horrible cough and searched high and low for someone who knew how to do it. I mean, who knew how to do it without burning me! but also where to place the cups.
I ended up again at a traditional Dr. from Laos who also did eastern medicine. Again, it worked on the first try.
Cupping was very common in Europe and also in N. Africa.
Besides the bruises it leaves it has no side effects.
I don't care what anyone says, it works.
Although I'm of course thrilled that you have experienced relief of your ailment, you may wish to consider the points raised in post #6.
The only objection that I have to it is in it's adherents promoting it as something other than a culturally and faith-based remedy and in so doing putting it on the same footing as a scientifically-based treatment. Remedies such as "cupping" have the same degree of scientific justification, proof and validity as astrology, and it's essential to keep that perspective in mind.
Faith has many benefits, but it's essential to be honest about one's faith and not blur the lines with science.
What, they're claiming it's a religion??
I never said that.
It is a matter of faith, not a matter of science.
Faith is, of course, a different thing than religion, although the two concepts can often merge.
You are welcome to your beliefs and I don't dispute for a moment your experiences. I would only wish to suggest that people be honest, and when they cannot answer simple questions such as "what definable physiological event is occurring here" that they admit that it is a matter of faith and belief, not of science.
Then you won't care about this: No, it doesn't.
Yeah, ya'll. Another goofy "treatment" currently making
the rounds is the "foot soak" machine that supposedly
pulls the toxins out of the body. Our chiropractor has
invested in those things and was pushing the treatments the
last time we were in her office. I know she is sincere,
but has been sold a bill of goods. I looked it up on the
internet and it has been exposed as a scam. The machine
itself produces the scary colored "toxins" after your feet
stay in it for 15 or 20 minutes. Brown, yellow green gooky
looking stuff comes out into the water, but it is not
coming from the pores of the feet. It has something to do
with the type of material the thing is made of. In fact,
I think it would be interesting to run the thing with no
one's feet in it and watch it produce "toxins" out of thin
air. I want to tell her about this, but I don't know how
to go about it.
That's a great article; thanks for posting :-)
My pleasure. Skepdic.com is great for debunking junk science.
Of the few chiropractors that I have met, one thing that they held in common was a sincere belief that the mainstream medical community was an entirely corrupt cabal intent on preventing "alternative, traditional and other worthwhile" approaches from gaining acceptance.
This ideology of perceived institutional opression will quite likely prevent your chiropractor from listening to dissenting views, unfortunately.
Although I have come to believe that the AMA has morphed into a labor union much like any other, I still have faith that most good (mainstream) doctors will seriously entertain considering the validity of new treatments that hold promise in the curing of sickness and disease and the reduction and elimination of pain. They wil, however, be wanting to see scientific proof first.
I have a degree in Natropathic Medicine (I kid you not). I worked with a Psychiatrist as his office manager but also a therapist for Stress Relief. I studied Irodology, Massage, Reflexology and Nutritional Medicine to get my degree. I truly believe (as did my boss) that stress can cause many symptoms. Of everything that I studied, I worked with Massage and Reflexology and only for stress. Sometimes telling people to better their diet, however I was supervised by a medical doctor. I believe many of the things I studied were bunk.
Stress can definitely cause many symptoms, as can a poor diet. These are solidly supported truths based upon clearly and easily definable physiological actions.
Although I'm sorry to hear that you've invested so much time and work in a field that you have now apparently lost much of your faith in, I'm hoping that a silver lining can be found. Sometimes the best lessons that we learn in life are the ones that are the most painful, time consuming and costly. Your studies in these areas will undoubtely be helpful in understanding the truths in many unrelated areas in the future.
You also have reason to be happy, in that you unlike many others, have found Truth. There are millions of people who go through their lives completely smitten by a particular fad, fashion or belief and never see the sunlight.
There are many old Marxist/Leninists who have gone to their graves honestly believing that "Uncle Joe" Stalin was a truly good man and that the famines of the Soviet era were entirely "Capitalist propaganda".
excellent :)
An all or nothing approach isn't much good for anything. I work in the 'alternative health' industry and do take A LOT of time to educate myself and pass on good information to customers. People should ALWAYS educate themselves whether it's alternative therapies or western medicine.
and debunking satan *lol* (michael moore should be in there)
http://www.skepdic.com/satan.html
I hope that I didn't imply that an "all or nothing" approach is the only way. I'm merely advocating the clear distinction of things that are supported by science and those that are not.
I'm merely fearful that when a high-profile celebrity such as Gwynneth Paltrow goes out of her way to publicly endorse something like "cupping", that many desperate people who have chronic illnesses will consider it to be on an equal scientific footing as Magnetic Resonance Imaging or Penicillin.
As you say, everyone should educate themselves as much as possible regarding their treatments; I agree completely.
Nope I didn't get that from your post. Just thinking out loud about some of my customers who had really bad experiences with doctors. They will accept almost anything BUT traditional medicine. I have some customers, one with hep C, one with AIDS and one with acute lymphoma who refuse to see a doctor further no matter what I say. Hence I have also a medical library because otherwise they'll go to a complete quack and at least I'm an educated quack ;-)
One experience is a client who called me and asked me if I had anything for a cough for a little kid. When I heard the kid, I told her get him to a hospital because it was whopping cough and it was such as. I don't know if she did take him. From the tone of her voice, sounded like she probably didn't. Oh well.
>>Although I'm sorry to hear that you've invested so much time and work in a field that you have now apparently lost much of your faith in, I'm hoping that a silver lining can be found. <<
Oh don't feel sorry for me! I gave it all up for the best job in the world, wife and mother. Now only Dad gets foot massages!
I guess I should advertise as the resident Reflexologist!
If you need a foot massage, you know where to find me....;-)
Works for me, I don't seem to fart much anymore either.....
heh
Better be careful, the FR horny brigade may take you up on that offer ;-)
To all those reading, this offer was to Cyborg only. My boss (Dad) will have to approve all other customers.
(do you think that will cover it or make it worse?)
hehehe I think you're safe :)
Here's my 20 year study on a large and multi-cultured/national family:
Chiropractic: for back pain. Get an old, simple chiropractor who doesn't belong to 'network chiropractic' and doesn't suggest opting out of vaccinations!
Accupuncture: No real results, subtle help with some vague problems, ie: weight loss, smoking.
Homeopathy: Worked wonders on a small percentage of children, chronic ear infection, overexcitement. Otherwise, no noticable effects.
Naturopathy: Definately the first thing to do, healthy diet and natural supplement regime. Basic health and circulation issues. If serious illness, must follow Dr. orders. (like at any point if possible surgery is recommended, follow up!)
Cupping: miraculous, ancient technique for respiratory problems. (Ask your old grammas, they'll fess up if you don't act like you think they're nuts)
Osteopathy: Very effective for pain treatment, seems a little weirder than chiropractic, but if you can let go, the technique makes sense, and only a few appointments are needed.
Here's for some specialised advice:
VBAC? Get an Irish Dr. (highest rate in the world)
Infertility? if over 40 MUST go to a Dr. specialising in that age group.
Chronic back pain? If nothing else works, x-ray may show noticable difference in leg length, custom insoles may help.
Eyes burning? sensitivity to light? Difficulty focusing?May need seances of reeducation of muscles, not glasses.
ping to above post
I once heard second hand from a cult guru that the best technique was to combine their message with getting the kids off junk food, on an exersize regime and onto healthy food, and then they would think that you cured them of their problems through your powers.
Sounds like there's a lot of truth to that - Louis Farrakhan does much the same thing at the spiritual level.
"Sounds like there's a lot of truth to that - Louis Farrakhan does much the same thing at the spiritual level."
ROTFLMAO!! @ Calypso Louie reference :-)
He's still around, isn't he? Wouldn't the fact that he hasn't been assassinated yet and he's still a multimillionaire suggest to him that the white man is not quite as evil as he suggests?
Oh well, if we're going to be listing obvious contradictions from Leftist race-baiting hysterics we'd have to chop down the ENTIRE rainforest to make enough paper :-)
If the Evil Ice People didn't exist, Crazy Louie would have to invent them.
Oh well, if we're going to be listing obvious contradictions from Leftist race-baiting hysterics we'd have to chop down the ENTIRE rainforest to make enough paper
Sounds like a win-win scenario to me.
I saw a commercial last night for a product that is supposed to remove toxins, including heavy metals, via a pad that is stuck on the bottom of the feet. That ole’ P.T. knew a thing or two about people...
Aw geez! They will probably make millions with it, which is a terribly sad commentary on the intelligence of many people as well as how much excess cash they have.
You're quite right about P.T. Barnum, and sadly people haven't gotten any more astute since Barnum's era despite the easy availability of instant information and fact-checking.
I bet they do sell a lot...sheesh!
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