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1 posted on 07/20/2004 9:28:44 AM PDT by Mini-14
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To: Mini-14
Deceptive or unethical behavior. Example, a colleague of my wife applied for an advertized position, got to a third interview to discuss $$ etc; HR person started out saying "You realize this is 30hrs/week with no benefits ?"
First time this was ever mentioned, everything up to then had implied full time, benefits bearing job. Waste of everyones' time in the end.
2 posted on 07/20/2004 9:39:12 AM PDT by 1066AD
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To: Mini-14
Too often the notice appears: "Site last updated May 2003."

Doesn't necessarily mean that the job (or other) data on the site is that old. Many sites work from a database that is constantly updated, but the basic code for the site itself is not changed very often.

3 posted on 07/20/2004 9:39:12 AM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: Mini-14
My favorite was "you're over qualified" and "you're under qualified" ... and having both these statements cast in my face by two different people in the same organization and for the same position.

Also, some one half my age with half my education and experience playing God with my life. Awful, worst experience in my life.
4 posted on 07/20/2004 9:40:17 AM PDT by SMARTY ('Stay together, pay the soldiers, forget everything else." Lucius Septimus Severus, to his sons)
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To: Mini-14
Employers are doing a collectively lousy job at filling positions

I don't hear too many companies bemoaning the fact that they can't find good help. Therefore, I think it is overstated to say that Employers are doing a lousy job at hiring. It is more accurate to say that Employers are getting what they require.

I think what this whiner is really saying is: "I wanted a high-paying job as a web-designer, but no one would hire me. So now I write articles for Computerworld telling everyone how foolish companies are in their hiring practices."

5 posted on 07/20/2004 9:40:39 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column)
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To: Mini-14

"Norris is a freelance writer and adviser specializing in recruitment and career issues. He's based in Stamford, Conn."

This is simply the worst article I've ever read concerning finding a job, hiring practices, and life in general I have ever read.

What a loser.


7 posted on 07/20/2004 9:43:41 AM PDT by Badeye ("The day you stop learning, is the day you begin dying")
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To: Mini-14
Ah, Norris, my friend, you are missing the point. The purpose isn't to avoid you! The purpose is to build a structure that excludes geezers!

The major objective is to avoid hiring any one over or approaching age 50, from the federal government on down, NO OLD TIMERS NEED APPLY!! Sure, Walmart hires a few, but jobs where you'd use a life time of skills, no way!

All the structure Norris describes is to make the HR folks lives easier by ensuring that no geezers can get past. If the don't exclude older applicants by these mechanisms, they'll have no other means of doing so.

8 posted on 07/20/2004 9:45:26 AM PDT by Tacis (,)
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To: Mini-14
Actually, we do not accept phone calls and we will not see anyone without an appointment.

It's common sense to have such policies, the only people I know that seem to have a problem with this are the ones who want to bullsh!t their way into a company.
9 posted on 07/20/2004 9:46:52 AM PDT by HEY4QDEMS (Trespassers will be shot, survivers will be shot again.)
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To: Mini-14

My number one complaint - HR person contacts you and sets up an interview. You get there and the person you actually have to work for wants to know if you know this, done that, etc. Basically wants to know if you have done stuff that is not on your resume. A waste of everyone's time. HR people - IMO - are extremely ignorant bordering on stupidity people.


12 posted on 07/20/2004 9:53:36 AM PDT by 7thson (I think it takes a big dog to weigh a hundred pounds!)
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To: Mini-14

Ya know, about the time Detroit started making cars, the horse carriage business went south. The author needs to quit whinning. Job hunting has never been easy. Twenty-five years ago I was told I was a woman so couldn't be a mail carrier, never mind I had the highest test score. Along about that same time I was hired at a state park but two hours after I filled out all the paperwork I got a call from a very upset supervisor who said he'd been hauled over the coals because I was white and where was his token black employee. That job stayed open for several years and was finally pulled because there had never been a black applicant. Job hunting stinks, always has, always will so shut up and get over it.


13 posted on 07/20/2004 9:54:18 AM PDT by mtbopfuyn
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To: Mini-14

While there are many, many things I've hated about job search, this article is written by someone who has obviously never done any hiring. Many of the so-called abuses he speaks of, one being the no-call, are necessary. If the company is looking to add staff, they are too busy to answer the telephone.

Companies either have the mindset that it is easier and less costly to go through 2 or 3 employees, firing one or two that do not work out, than it is to conduct a thorough and professional job search. I think to a certain extent, that is true.

The bottom line is is YOU don't get the job, there is something wrong with the process or the company. If YOU do get the job, everything is OK. We need more perspective here that the writer of this article doesn't offer.


14 posted on 07/20/2004 9:54:45 AM PDT by 1L
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To: Mini-14
Headhunters are also a big problem. I can't tell you how many times I received a call from a headhunter and they started with the line, "I have your resume in front of me and I have a job you might be interested in, tell me, what is it exactly, that you do?"

The worst part was that when I carefully considered what the headhunter had to offer and gave them permission to submit my resume for the position, I made it painfully clear that no matter what the response was, I wanted to hear back from him/her so I can digest any critique that may have been offered by the hiring manager. I can say that to a person, each headhunter assured me that they would call me back no matter what the response was. And to a person, not one headhunter ever took the time to call me back. It was up to me to track them down, leave messages, etc. before I could get them to tell me that the company "filled the position".

Also, I worked for a smaller company for a few years and was privy to the hiring process. They were looking for programmers last fall and put a listing on Monster.com. That was around 9am. By the end of the day they had over 300 resumes. After two days they had about 450. Obviously, one or two people can not read every resume so they took the top 50 resumes to review and tossed the rest.

15 posted on 07/20/2004 9:59:40 AM PDT by Hatteras
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To: Mini-14
As someone who (although employed) has been seeking a new position for some time, I agree with some of the points the author makes.

I particularly agree with the vague employment ads, both in classifieds and on the Internet. There are many employers who either don't seem to know what they want, or don't want to spend the money for the few extra words to explain what they want. I suspect this might be a problem originating in HR, but its just a suspicion.

As a job seeker, I don't respond to ads where its obvious I am unqualified or over qualified. However, if the ad is vague, then its prudent to respond. This unfortunately, wastes everyone's time, and thus money in most cases.

Its even more ridiculous when the unidentified employer wants an expected salary in response to a vague job description.
16 posted on 07/20/2004 10:00:03 AM PDT by babyface00
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To: Mini-14
How about:

"MUST SPEAK SPANISH"

18 posted on 07/20/2004 10:01:37 AM PDT by StoneColdGOP (Nothing is Bush's fault... Nothing is Bush's fault... Nothing is Bush's fault...)
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To: Mini-14

I went to a job interview and when the interviewer saw my salary requirements on the application, he said the guy who set up the interview should have told me what the job was paying. D'oh. I drove 100 miles RT and spent an hour filling out application. Needless to say, there was no interview.


20 posted on 07/20/2004 10:04:18 AM PDT by rabidralph (My pit bull drives an SUV.)
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To: Mini-14
What a whiner! Hey, Buddy...listen up! I'm not in business to provide you with a job.

No, I don't want to talk with you without checking your resume first. If I do want to talk with you, you can make an appointment on the same day I interview everybody else. No, I don't want you hanging around my office on the off chance I might spontaneously create a job opening at 2:10 p.m. Not everybody has email and HR doesn't have the time to email everybody who does. Don't answer ads that are poorly written. If the ad is poorly written, do you really think that yakking on the phone will clear things up?

This guy is unreal. He needs to get out of a field that has been overpaid and is currently overstaffed.
22 posted on 07/20/2004 10:05:35 AM PDT by Gingersnap
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To: Mini-14
People who have been employed for the past four years don't know how difficult it is to search for work in today's economy.

Yeah, it's really, really tough. I was told my contract would be up at the end of July on the 6th of this month, and had a full-time job offer by the 12th. Prior to that, I had five companies pursuing me.

When you fill a position, send a brief e-mail notice to each applicant. Let them cross the potential opening off their lists instead of waiting for a call that won't come.

If they don't contact me, I can figure out that they ain't interested. No big deal.

For some job hunters, classified ads for "stealth" jobs are particularly hated. These ads usually include a brief and murky job description, no company name, and possibly a fax number for resume submissions.

Who in the heck faxes a resume any more? This guy is so, like, nineties.

"No phone calls accepted." These words often appear in job postings. They really mean, "We don't want you to call us.

Yeah, when you post a job and are bombarded with resumes from unqualified and marginally qualified people, it would make LOTS of sense to put your phone number in the ad so you can REALLY waste lots of time.

Let's be clear on something that seems so basic it shouldn't be mentioned: Company recruitment pages should be current.

Try reading the ad.

Don't ask applicants to retype their resumes line for line in online applications.

Hasn't this guy ever heard of cut-and-paste? Dang, between his inability to simplify tasks and his "I need a hug" attitude, I can see why no one wants to hire him.

24 posted on 07/20/2004 10:11:07 AM PDT by dirtboy (John Kerry - Hillary without the fat ankles and the FBI files...)
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To: Mini-14
Norris is a freelance writer and adviser specializing in recruitment and career issues.

In other words, he's a journalism major with few marketable skills.

25 posted on 07/20/2004 10:12:13 AM PDT by dirtboy (John Kerry - Hillary without the fat ankles and the FBI files...)
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To: Mini-14
I'm astounded that one who purports to be an expert on job-seeking issues can be so dense.

Here is what I learned on my first job-seeking expedition 40 years ago:

Blind ads or vague ads are a scam. Do not apply for those jobs.

Be specific on your resume concerning the job you want. Do not spin your wheels interviewing for jobs that are outside your field of interest.

There is nothing good that happens when you interview with a gatekeeper. If your prospective immediate supervisor is not involved all the interviewer is doing is filling up his own time so that he appears to his boss to be busy.

Spend your time researching the company you want to work for and find out who your boss will be. It would be a good idea if you could find out what problem it is that he is trying to solve by hiring you. This is a lot more important than finding out what the company's closing stock price is.

If you can't get this information before your interview, attach a "Kick me" sign to your forehead.

32 posted on 07/20/2004 10:19:40 AM PDT by HIDEK6
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To: Mini-14

Doesn't this guy realize that the majority of job openings in a company are NEVER ADVERTISED! Only the positions that cannot be filled via internal processes are put in newspapers. These adds usually decribe a skillset that no human could have and if they did, they are already working for someone else.


34 posted on 07/20/2004 10:21:13 AM PDT by LetsRok
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To: Mini-14

Having been in the job hunt with a job, witnessing a hiring as well as attempting a promotion (successfully by the way), I can see both sides of the issues.

We had an applicant who was not interview worthy bombarding the office with phone calls. Some of the questions were down right silly (Will I actually be reporting to the title that is listed in my title?) to wanting to know how come she wasn't getting a call for an interview. Luckily we only had one doing this.

I think it would be great if rather than taking down filled jobs, they just put "position filled" and the date after the title for just one week. Since I monitored the same websites religiously, I would catch the interested positions and an email wouldn't be necessary.

It doesn't sound like this guy does the amount of networking needed. I rarely apply for a job cold. I find some one in the company or the industry (or a spouse that knows the dirt) that can give me a better take on the position. It's cost me a lot of coffee, but in the long run was worth it.

Worst thing that happened to me... a larger organization put my application in a secretary/exec. assistant pool without me knowing it (I applied for one position). As the units chose not to interview me, I was sent a letter of rejection for each one. I finally called the H.R. department after the fifth one and they explained to me what happened. I requested that I be removed from the pool and still got one more letter after that. Sometimes not hearing anything is better than getting the same form letter too many times.


35 posted on 07/20/2004 10:28:47 AM PDT by PrincessB
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