Whatever you think of President GWBush, and some of us are not really impressed,
THINK OF:
US Supreme Court and the next 30 years.
In God We Trust…..Semper Fi!
Posted on 07/30/2004 3:40:46 AM PDT by Former Military Chick
WASHINGTON – With a presidential race so tight that a few thousand votes in a handful of states could decide the outcome, both campaigns are engaged in possibly the most intense effort to attract military voters since the Civil War.
While candidates in the crucial 1864 wartime Union election focused solely on the soldiers, the campaigns this year are battling over a broader military population that includes millions of veterans and hundreds of thousands of service family members.
Like the 1864 contest between President Abraham Lincoln and retired Gen. George McClellan, this election pits a Republican incumbent who never saw combat against a Democratic challenger considered a war hero.
Despite those contrasting records, pollsters and experts on the military believe that President Bush has a clear advantage among active military personnel, though Sen. John Kerry is more competitive among veterans and might be making inroads among their family members.
"My view is that Kerry's veteran status is not going to be much of a draw mainly because of his fervent opposition to the war after his return from Vietnam," said Charles Moskos, a military sociologist at Northwestern University. "His hero status is offset by that."
While in Iraq and Kuwait in December, Moskos said the general view among the troops "was strong support for the president."
Kerry should not expect a lot of support within the active military because "most of the career military is so conservative," he said, referring to senior enlisted members and officers.
That view is far from universal.
"The assertion that the military has historically voted Republican is an overstatement and overly simplistic," said David Segal, a military sociologist at the University of Maryland.
"On the average," he said, "the professional military vote has been more Republican than the nation as a whole." But, "that tends to be true of all professions," including those in the legal and medical fields, he added.
Research on the other 85 percent of military personnel – the junior enlisted service members – suggests that group is "pretty much mainstream American, not disproportionally conservative, not disproportionally Republican," Segal said.
Moskos agrees that the younger enlisted personnel would be less likely to vote for a Republican than more senior troops, particularly because of the significant percentage of blacks and Latinos, who tend to vote more Democratic.
But the career personnel are more likely to vote, he added.
As if to counter thoughts the top brass will cast ballots for Bush, Kerry has showcased support from numerous former highly ranked officers. Yesterday, retired Army Gen. John M. Shalikashvili, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under President Clinton, spoke to the Democratic National Convention on Kerry's behalf.
A number of political analysts have concluded that the military vote, including absentee ballots from overseas, might have been the deciding factor in Bush's 537-vote margin of victory in Florida in 2000. That possibility may have triggered the current appeal to the military by both campaigns.
The president has held half a dozen events on military bases this year. Vice President Dick Cheney held a rally Tuesday at Camp Pendleton.
Kerry has made his service in Vietnam a key part of his campaign and has surrounded himself with fellow veterans, particularly the enlisted men who served on the Navy swift boats he commanded there.
Although the military has done little in the past to encourage people to vote, the Pentagon launched a major campaign this year to help the troops, particularly those deployed overseas, register to vote and to apply for absentee ballots.
Moskos suggested that the Bush administration supported that effort "because the likelihood of them voting Republican is much higher."
Segal agreed but added: "I don't think the data I've seen supports that assumption."
He said the prolonged conflict in Iraq and the call up of the National Guard and Reserves appears to be triggering a backlash. "I'm hearing a lot of dissatisfaction, particularly from family members," Segal said.
"The closest thing to an anti-war movement in the country is what I'm hearing from Guard and Reserve families and employers," he said.
Moskos said that could undercut Bush's advantage. "If there is any erosion, it would be because of lack of support by family members," he said.
Recent polling data seem to shore up those views.
A series of polls by the Pew Research Center for the Public and the Press showed that Bush leads Kerry among men with military experience, 49 percent to 40 percent. Other polls gave Bush an even larger advantage.
A Battleground Poll conducted in late June by Democratic pollster Celinda Lake and Republican surveyor Ed Goeas showed that likely voters among active military and reserve personnel and veterans favored Bush over Kerry, 52 percent to 44.
However, Lake said there was some anecdotal evidence Kerry does better among military wives.
Last September, a Battleground Poll showed Bush's approval rating among military family members at only 36 percent.
Peter Feaver, a professor at Duke, said Kerry is making inroads among the families of military personnel, particularly the kin of Guard and Reserve members deployed to Iraq.
As for military policy, Kerry and Bush have their differences. On Iraq, Kerry has criticized the president's handling of the war, but has not proposed radical changes such as immediately withdrawing U.S. forces.
Those differences pale in comparison with those 140 years ago.
In 1864, Lincoln insisted on victory and McClelland called for a swift negotiated end to the Civil War. The president won 77.5 percent of the soldiers' vote.
In the first place John Kerry is a war criminal not a war hero , In the second place where does this paper get their facts, I certainly havent spoken with a veteran who intends to vote for a man who turned his Band of Brothers into a hated species with his anti-Viet Nam Jane Fonda tricks.
The headline is wrong. The military does not have a vote in the United States of America. That is one thing that sets apart from the rest of the world. Members of the military do. Algore notwithstanding, their votes are counted.
The article is also wrong in that Kerry is not courting the military vote. He is trying to give himself enough credibility on military matters that the average voter will trust him enough to vote for him during a dangerous time. However, I think he strayed too far over the line. He spent all his time sucking up to the Republican base and did not spend enough time on the standard Democratic laundry list. Somewhere in America there is an gay Aleutian handicapper who is upset because his specific demographic class was not mentioned in this speech, as it has been in every Democratic nominee's acceptace speech since Johnson.
I noted some things missing, that he is a gun control nut, and is going to declare a moratorium on the federal death penalty with an EO.
Need to ask folks how many fire stations have been closed in your area. None in Memphis TN. In fact a new one was opened this year and 2 others last year. And Memphis is cash strapped all the time.
FYI
I agree 110%! Hanoi John should have been court-martialed for killing a wounded VC, that's called murder under the UCMJ AND the Rules of Land Warfare. Second, as a Naval Officer, reserve or active, he should have had his ears pinned back for his anti-war activities. He had not resigned his commission yet and was still subjected to the UCMJ. He should have been charged for Art 88,99, and 118.
That is: Contempt towards officials, misbehavior before the enemy, and murder.
He sold us out in 1971 by smearing us as baby killers. Any vet that supports Kerry is either a brain-dead democrat or not paying attention. Kerry is a scum-sucking communist.
Whatever you think of President GWBush, and some of us are not really impressed,
THINK OF:
US Supreme Court and the next 30 years.
In God We Trust…..Semper Fi!
O.K., Two points for clarification here:
#1. What strategy does the BC'04 folks have for getting absentee registrations and ballots to our active duty servicemen and women?
@2. Would it be wrong for the Prez to "just feel it necessary at this time" to send Rummy to as many military posts around the country, as he can, to just "visit" with the troops and in so doing, subconsciously, rally them for their Commander in Chief?
And Kerry voted against how many (I forget, the list is here on FR somewhere) major new defense appropriations while in the Senate? Then in his speech last night, he said he would "build a stronger American Military"!! HOW? With weapons systems and training provided by the UN?
No one can see this guy as anything other than anti-military...active duty or vet.
I should hope there's a push for military personnel to vote..and vote early. Let's not forget all those military absentee ballots that got "lost" in Florida in 2000.
I believe that he was still inactive reserve when he met with the North Vietnamese, and the Viet Cong on separate occasions in 1971/2 in Paris.That should have been enough to throw his ass into a red-line brig.
That was before he lied in front of Congress.
For those individuals who don't know about it, there is a rally in DC on 12Sept04 of Vietnam Veterans who will stand and say to the world that John Kerry lied when he called US war criminals, baby killers, and murderers. Vietnam Vet or not, please join us in DC to set the record straight.
Link to Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry
In God We Trust…..Semper Fi!
He voted to kill the M-1 Abrams Tank
He voted to kill every Aircraft carrier laid down from 1988
He voted to kill the Aegis anti aircraft system
He voted to Kill the F-15 strike eagle
He voted to Kill the Block 60 F-16
He voted to Kill the P-3 Orion upgrade
He voted to Kill the B-1
He voted to Kill the B-2
He voted to Kill the Patriot anti Missile system
He voted to Kill the FA-18
He voted to Kill the F117
He voted to kill every military appropriation for the development and deployment of every weapons systems since 1988,including a bill for battle armor for our troops.
In God We Trust…..Semper Fi!
Democratic challenger considered a war hero.
To get the military vote, maybe Kerry could pose with Jane Fonda again. I know that endeared him to all the military people I know.
Roger that gunnygail. Benedict Arnold was a war hero turned traitor too. Arnold's problem: he didn't divorce and marry bigger money.
He should have been charged for Art 88,99, and 118.
Kerry, by his own account, violated the UCMJ, the Geneva Conventions and the U.S. Code while serving as a Navy officer, and he further stands in violation of Article three, Section three of the U.S. Constitution.
Upon entering the Navy in 1966, John Kerry signed a six-year contract (plus a six-month extension during wartime) and an Officer Candidate contract for five years of active duty and active Naval Reserve. This indicates that Kerry was clearly a commissioned officer at the time of his 1970 meeting with NVA Communists in Paris -- in direct violation of the UCMJ's Article 104 part 904, and U.S. Code 18 U.S.C. 953. That meeting, and Kerry's subsequent coddling of Communists while leading mass protests against our military in the year that followed, also place him in direct violation of our Constitution's Article three, Section three, which defines treason as "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy in time of warfare. (As General Vo Nguyen Giap is his witness....)
Thus, the Constitution's Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, which states, "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President ... having previously taken an oath ... to support the Constitution of the United States, [who has] engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof." is applicable.
The following is an excerpt from the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the additional set of federal law that is applicable to military personnel.
802. ART. 2. PERSONS SUBJECT TO THIS CHAPTER
(a) The following persons are subject to this chapter:
(1) Members of a regular component of the armed forces, including those awaiting discharge after expiration of their terms of enlistment; volunteers from the time of their muster or acceptance into the armed forces; inductees from the time of their actual induction into the armed forces; and other persons lawfully called or ordered into, or to duty in or for training in the armed forces, from the dates when they are required by the terms of the call or order to obey it.
(2) Cadets, aviation cadets, and midshipman.
(3) Members of a reserve component while on inactive-duty training, but in the case of members of the Army National Guard of the United States or the Air National Guard of the United States only when in Federal Service.
(4) Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.
(5) Retired members of a reserve component who are receiving hospitalization from an armed force.
(6) Members of the Fleet Reserve and Fleet Marine Corps Reserve.
(7) Persons in custody of the armed forces serving a sentence imposed by a court-martial.
(8) Members of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Public Health Service, and other organizations, when assigned to and serving with the armed forces. (9) Prisoners of war in custody of the armed forces.
(10) In time of war, persons serving with or accompanying an armed force in the field.
(11) Subject to any treaty or agreement which the United States is or may be a party to any accepted rule of international law, persons serving with, employed by, or accompanying the armed forces outside the United States and outside the Canal Zone, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands.
(12) Subject to any treaty or agreement t which the United States is or may be a party to any accepted rule of international law, persons within an area leased by or otherwise reserved or acquired for use of the United States which is under the control of the Secretary concerned and which is outside the United States and outside the Canal Zone, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands.
Hanoi John was clearly subject to the UCMJ.
881. ART. 81. CONSPIRACY
Any person subject to this chapter who conspires with any other person to commit an offense under this chapter shall, if one or more of the conspirators does an act to effect the object of the conspiracy, be punished as a court-martial may direct.
If any - and many claimed to be - of the supposed veterans were in fact veterans and in a reserve status Hanoi John would be liable to this article.
888. ART. 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS
Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
Check out the speeches he made while leading the VVAW
892. ART. 92. FAILURE TO OBEY ORDER OR REGULATION
Any person subject to this chapter who--
(1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;
(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by any member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or
(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties;
shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
Hanoi John clearly violated standing orders when he endangered his boat and crew in the action for which he was given the Silver Star.
904. ART. 104. AIDING THE ENEMY
Any person who--
(1) aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or
(2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or [protects or gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly;
shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct.
“or holds any intercourse with the enemy” - by his own admission when he met with the North Vietnamese deligation in Paris (illegally both under he UCMJ and US Code).
917. ART. 117. PROVOKING SPEECHES OR GESTURES
Any person subject to this chapter who uses provoking or reproachful words or gestures towards any other person subject to this chapter shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
Again, his speeches as leader of the VVAW.
933. ART. 133. CONDUCT UNBECOMING AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN
Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
Self explanatory.
934. ART. 134. GENERAL ARTICLE
Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.
Self explanatory.
I might add that a number of military members were sent on field exercises to keep them away from the voting booths.(2000) The demo-commies are the ones who tried to hi-jack the last presidential election. Lie, cheat and steal it's the deomcrat way. Bush/Cheney 2004
I watched the whole speech, and unless I missed something, not one word about crime,or gun control.
AWESOME ANSWER!
I tell you, the Kerry supporters aren't impressing this military family at ALL. My son has spent the week at the DeCordova Art Museum in Lincoln, MA. He was part of a group of children from the school here at Hanscom AFB who were selected by the museum to receive a scholarship to the camp. Two days ago, he came home and told me that I was right...people do say bad things about the president. I asked what had happened and he said this:
"Mom, one of our camp teachers told my class today that President Bush started this war. She said it's all his fault and that John Kerry will be a much better president."
I was LIVID. I talked to my son about how it's ok for people to have different opinions, but that I didn't appreciate her using her position to influence his thinking politically. I called the museum and left a message asking for a return call, but nobody called. My son doesn't know this girls name, so...I'm going there personally today.
I just can't believe she would say that to any group of children, let alone a group of children who live with the impact of this war on terrorism every day. This "teacher" has probably been affected no more than by watching the stories on the news. These children, I know of at least one anyway, have parents who have been injured in the war, have recovered, and are now BACK in Iraq, still fighting.
By the way, a few days ago my son asked me what the difference between liberals and conservatives were. I told him the size of their brain...lol He asked what I meant, and I matured enough to give him a pretty good answer. Not bad for a 9 year old, eh?
Thanks for letting me vent! I'm surrounded by liberals here in Boston. This was the only safe place to vent my story! :)
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