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Illegals from terrorist nations crossing border into Arizona.
KVOA News ^ | 08-13-2004 | Tom McNamara

Posted on 08/14/2004 7:22:55 PM PDT by NewRomeTacitus

TUCSON- Tom McNamara and the Eyewitness News 4 Investigators have spent the last three months talking to experts and eyewitnesses.

The stories are compelling and the evidence is frightening, and just this week, Colorado Congressman Tom Tancredo released a report showing that the problem is worse than anyone thought.

Here's what the Eyewitness News 4 Investigators uncovered.

"It's a Muslim prayer blanket. It was found about a mile and a half west from the Douglas port of entry in 2001."

Larry Vance is a rancher who lives near the U.S.-Mexico border in Douglas, Arizona.

For years, he says he's watched - and documented - thousands of illegals crossing the border and running away to eventual arrest... or freedom and anonymity somewhere in this country.

And in just one hour, during this stake-out along the border between Douglas and Bisbee, The Investigators count 198 illegals in five different groups crossing into the U.S. with no resistance.

Watch as they huddle in the bushes, then climb thru a few strands of barbed wire and run for freedom.

We called Border Patrol and waited another full hour, but no one ever came.

Later, we checked Border Patrol logs which note agents being dispatched following our call, but also note those agents found no signs of activity in the area.

In recent years, Vance says, the evidence some illegals leave behind is alarming.

Vance says, "Other log books, diary-type things, other bits and pieces of paper with Arabic written on them found in the area over the last few years

We've all heard of the U.S. government's Terror Watch List: countries flagged because Americans are endangered by their citizens, yet regularly, illegals from those countries are crossing the Arizona border, blending in with groups of Mexican and South American illegal immigrants.

If apprehended, they are brought to this federal detention center in Florence, Arizona.

The investigators found that on this day, several individuals of this kind were being detained here, including some from Sudan, Iran, and even Iraq.

These are just the ones who were caught.

These detainees are called 'other than Mexicans' or OTM's. Most will eventually be sent back to their home country.

But some disappear very quickly, usually before they even reach this center or other holding facilities. They're taken away by tight-lipped federal agents to who-knows-where.

Who are they? They're called 'Special Interest Aliens" or "SIA."

According to Ben Anderson, a retired U.S. Army Colonel, The SIA that they don't want to talk about. That's special interest alien. These are people from those countries that we consider terrorist threats."

Anderson is a retired U.S. Army Colonel who tracks illegal immigration from his home in Sierra Vista, Arizona. He has a website sharing his research into Special Interest Aliens.

"You will not read about that. You will not hear about that. They will not talk about that. They will not provide that info to the press

Colonel Anderson says these Special Interest Aliens originate in the Middle East or Northeast Asia. They travel through Spain to what's called the tri-border area of Brazil, Argentina, and Uruguay, then, to Mexico City.

They pay to learn Spanish language skills, and by the time they reach the U.S., they're acting and talking like Mexicans to fool border agents.

And, Anderson says, they're entering the United States right through our backyard. "This is the main alley. It's called "Cocaine Alley" or "Terrorist Alley." Whatever you want to call it, Arizona is the prime place."

Cochise County is the center. It's the point of gravitus, center of gravity for all illegals," says Anderson.

Anderson says some Special Interest Aliens are well-funded. paying tens of thousands of dollars to be smuggled into this country. They manage to get passports from non-terrorist nations.

And here's the shocking part: if they are caught, they are often released on their own recognizance, never to be seen again.

According to Retired Border Patrol Agent David Stoddard, "There are Middle Easterners coming across the border as we speak."

Stoddard agrees with Anderson. Stoddard spent 17 years as a Border Patrol agent and supervisor in the Tucson Sector before retiring.

"What's scary is that I can show you places out here on the line right now where 18-wheelers can be driven across."

"These 18-wheelers can be loaded with anything -- illegal aliens, atomic weapons, whatever."

Stoddard says Americans would be shocked if they knew just how many people from all over the world are getting into this country across the Arizona border. And he says we're even less safe from terrorism today than we were before 9/11.

Take for example, the capture of terrorist suspect Jose Padilla. The Justice Department says Padilla and an accomplice planned to enter the U.S. thru Mexico to blow up apartment buildings in major cities, like New York.

Or the case of suspected al-Qaeda sleeper agent Mohammed Junaid Babar.

Babar has told investigators of a scheme to smuggle terrorists across the Mexican border. He's tied to a terror plot to carry out bombings and assassinations in London.

And the Tombstone Tumbleweed newspaper reports that in June, 53 Middle Eastern men were apprehended by Border Patrol agents near Willcox.

It's believed they were from Iran or Syria.

Stoddard says, "It's the ones who are sneaking into our country under cover of darkness between our ports of entry that concern me and should concern every American.

Border Patrol Council President T.J. Bonner says, "You don't know what is getting by you unless you come across, as you said, small pieces of evidence, remnants of things that give you clues, that not everybody is coming across from mexico looking for a job."

Bonner knows exactly who and what current agents are uncovering along our border and he has a dire warning:

"It's only a matter of time before another terrorist attack occurs, unfortunately.

Some in Congress are starting to take notice of the threat. Colorado Congressman Tom Tancredo released a report that revealed a 50% increase in OTMs, illegals Other Than Mexicans, crossing the border.

Tancredo says some illegals from terrorist nations are paying as much as $50,000 to be smuggled in. He says they're not paying that kind of money simply to work at a 7/11.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; Mexico; News/Current Events; US: Arizona; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: aliens; border; borderpatrol; illegalimmigration; illegals; immigrantlist; immigration; otm; sia; sleeperagents; specialinterestalien; tancredo; tjbonner
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To: steplock

Try www.americanpatrol.com. The link for American Border Patrol is in the upper left corner.


51 posted on 08/14/2004 8:59:33 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: potlatch

Boy, you can tell it is getting late! Here is where I wanted to post the related link.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1189044/posts


52 posted on 08/14/2004 9:03:43 PM PDT by TheLion
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To: TheLion

LOL, you're right, I didn't notice that we were on the Border Patrol thread myself.


53 posted on 08/14/2004 9:05:26 PM PDT by potlatch (Sometimes I think I understand everything, then I regain consciousness.)
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To: potlatch

Here is another thread and another article on this running now!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1191754/posts


54 posted on 08/14/2004 9:08:15 PM PDT by TheLion
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To: FairOpinion

Deportation should be an option to every jury in every criminal case.


55 posted on 08/14/2004 9:08:26 PM PDT by henderson field
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To: Texas_Dawg
Why not the larger, more open, northern border where Arab Muslim communities they could blend into already exist? Gee... I wonder if you have ulterior motives here... Naaaaaahhhh...

Gee I wonder if you are calling anyone who opposes illegal immigration a Racist like a liberal democrat....nah.

There are tons of motives to oppose illegal immigration, like that they will indeed vote Dem for starters.

56 posted on 08/14/2004 9:20:59 PM PDT by PeoplesRep_of_LA (Dreier; Too bad, he used to be a good guy. Now he's a good example.)
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To: TheLion
Thanks Lion. Here's a mascot for you, LOL.


57 posted on 08/14/2004 9:21:07 PM PDT by potlatch (Sometimes I think I understand everything, then I regain consciousness.)
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To: NewRomeTacitus
wants to be alerted about border issues

alert request = true.

58 posted on 08/14/2004 9:22:18 PM PDT by TLI ( . . . ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA . . . . . .)
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To: NewRomeTacitus; bayourod

Yeah, this is getting to the point of 'are we too late'...

Hey bayourod, what is you interest in ongoing illegal invasions of America's sovereign borders?


59 posted on 08/14/2004 9:23:28 PM PDT by ApesForEvolution (DemocRATS are communists and want to destroy America only to replace it with the USSA)
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To: potlatch

Thats cool....thanks. I need something like that!


60 posted on 08/14/2004 9:23:52 PM PDT by TheLion
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To: steplock
I was particularly referencing the "muslim prayer cloth" But I couldn't find it again on here!??

According to FR member Ros42, the FoxNews special "Breaking Point" reported about the prayer rugs being found (post #31, "Al Qaeda-Linked Middle Eastern Men Infiltrating Via Southern Border, Using Fake Mexican ID, Names"). Other members mentioned them in post replies but didn't leave source references.

Phyllis Schlafly mentioned Muslim prayer rugs being found in her article "Unsafe Life on the Border", 04-28-2004.

Other articles from a Google search indicate finding rugs and prayerbooks among the detritus ilegals strew in has become rather commonplace. What I find distubing is how no government source (that Google can access) acknowledges it.

61 posted on 08/14/2004 9:26:11 PM PDT by NewRomeTacitus
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To: TheLion

Ya, it's cute AND expresses a LOT of things, LOL.


62 posted on 08/14/2004 9:29:21 PM PDT by potlatch (Sometimes I think I understand everything, then I regain consciousness.)
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To: potlatch

Yes, I feel like those things when I am on Freerepublic!...lol


63 posted on 08/14/2004 9:32:12 PM PDT by TheLion
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To: TheLion

I think I saw a 'smile' on his face at one point!!


64 posted on 08/14/2004 9:37:02 PM PDT by potlatch (Sometimes I think I understand everything, then I regain consciousness.)
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To: CONSERVE; TheLion
"Add me to your list please."
"Please add me to your ping list. Thanks."

Roger Wilco and welcome aboard!

65 posted on 08/14/2004 9:37:04 PM PDT by NewRomeTacitus
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To: Texas_Dawg
Padilla is an American citizen. He was arrested in the Chicago airport. That line in the article makes no sense.

Perhaps Padilla's accomplice is not a citizen and Padilla was going to help him cross over, along with whatever devices they intended to use, and once over, use his command of English, help get them, and the "devices" to the cities targeted. A dumb plan perhaps, but no one ever said Padilla was the brightest bulb in the string.

66 posted on 08/14/2004 9:41:45 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: upchuck
Anybody got any idea exactly what it would take to CLOSE the border?

A draft. It would take way more troops than we've got available. Although if you could set up a special category of troops, not subject to being sent overseas, you might get enough volunteers to do the job. Sort of an armed AmeriCorps.

If we had the militia system that the founders intended, and the Swiss actually have, you could call folks up for 3 or 6 month stints and have plenty of troops to close that border. That would be a system where everyone, or at least all adult males, has a military obligation and serves in the militia, with younger folks serving more training days per year, and the mandatory training time decreasing for the older folks. These callups would of course be in addition to the minimun training time required, but would still be a lot shorter than the times our reservists and guardsmen are being called up for now.

67 posted on 08/14/2004 9:47:34 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: ApesForEvolution
Hey bayourod, what is you interest in ongoing illegal invasions of America's sovereign borders?

bayourod is an open borders illegal immigration cheerleader who thinks that Latino illegal aliens are the greatest thing since sliced bread. bayourod doesn't believe that you can be opposed to illegal immigration solely because of the fact that illegal aliens are violating our laws. In bayourod's eyes, if you're opposed to illegal immigration, it's because you're a racist.

68 posted on 08/14/2004 9:50:10 PM PDT by usadave
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To: NewRomeTacitus
This article has been posted to DoctorZin’s New News Blog!


69 posted on 08/14/2004 9:53:55 PM PDT by DoctorZIn (Until they are Free, "We shall all be Iranians!")
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To: bayourod
by bayourod
(I resent Kerry telling me that his values, not mine are the only true American values.)

Hypocrite...

70 posted on 08/14/2004 10:10:10 PM PDT by lewislynn (Why do the same people who think "free trade" is the answer also want less foreign oil dependence?)
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To: lewislynn

Be nice, now. I think he had reached the worm at the bottom of the mezcal bottle...


71 posted on 08/14/2004 10:16:59 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

Can't help it, I call 'em as I see 'em


72 posted on 08/14/2004 10:22:16 PM PDT by lewislynn (Why do the same people who think "free trade" is the answer also want less foreign oil dependence?)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
Ben is definitely a good one. I can also vouch for the integrity of Dave Stoddard and Larry Vance.

I haven't met the latter two, unless they were at a PFUSA meeting at which I spoke in Sierra Vista.

73 posted on 08/14/2004 10:24:25 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: usadave

Oh, good grief. Thanks for the heads up. coyoterod might be more accurate?


74 posted on 08/14/2004 10:33:07 PM PDT by ApesForEvolution (DemocRATS are communists and want to destroy America only to replace it with the USSA)
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To: lewislynn
(I resent Kerry telling me that his values, not mine are the only true American values.)
Hypocrite...

Well said.

The value of Cheap Labor for Republican contributors isn't in my Bible, or my Constitution.

75 posted on 08/14/2004 10:37:26 PM PDT by PeoplesRep_of_LA (Dreier; Too bad, he used to be a good guy. Now he's a good example.)
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To: Carry_Okie

Larry Vance posts here occasionally.

Here is Dave Stoddard at his cantankerous best:

I challenge any of you to take an unregistered, unlicensed, uninsured automobile onto our highways. Do something stupid like change lanes without signaling in front of one of our state cops. Now, let's really make it interesting. Drive on the highway in an unlicensed automobile with no insurance and no driver's license and no identification. See how fast you end up with your vehicle confiscated, and a stack of citations that would make IRS forms seem like child's play. (You may even end up in jail.)

Do you think everybody on our highways is treated equally? Wrong!

Illegal aliens, even without any form of identification, are merely cited and released, if they are cited at all. Cops are reluctant to cite illegal aliens. If the alien doesn't show up to court, the state has to serve a warrant. Cops are loath to attempt to serve a warrant on Jose Rodriguez who was Javier Madrigal in Acapulco yesterday and will be Jaime Garcia in Chicago tomorrow. So....no citation, just a wink and a nod or at worst get issued citations with the privilege of continuing on down the highway in an unlicensed vehicle, driven by an unlicensed driver with no insurance.

A few years ago there was a big stink sent up by Mexico because Port officials where checking Mexicans at the Ports-of-Entry for seat belts and Arizona Automobile insurance. The practice stopped. Now, if you are so unfortunate as to get into an accident with a car bearing Mexican license plates you most likely will need your uninsured motorist coverage on your own insurance and the other driver will be cited and released never to be seen until you appear in a civil court having to prove that you are not at fault and that you don't have to pay his disability payments for the rest of his life.

How would you like to finance a home? You will need to fill out numerous forms listing your social security number; present and past addresses and a myriad of otherwise private and personal data before you will even be CONSIDERED for a mortgage. Now the Federal Government is behind an effort to assure that "migrants" are able to buy homes even if they have no credit history and are able to present ONLY a Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN). Never mind that they are here illegally and should be deported. TINs are issued upon request. IRS cares not about the origin of the applicant, nor is any background check performed, nor does the IRS care whether the correct name has been given. Our senior citizens and native-born poverty-stricken are denied housing and financing while foreigners who sneaked into this country are given privileges.

Do you live in a nice neighborhood? Do you keep your yard well? Did you buy your home because the neighborhood is clean and the neighbors well behaved? Did you have a reasonable expectation that your property would appreciate or at least retain its value?

In San Rafael, California, there was an ordinance that prohibited junk cars in residential neighborhoods. Illegal aliens love old cars. If the alien is in an accident, he can just bail out and leave the car. If, for some reason, the car is confiscated, it is no big loss. If the illegal alien can drive the car until it no longer runs, the car is still good. Parts can be removed from the old car and it is still good. It is better if it is unregistered. It is better yet if it is still registered to a former owner two or three owners removed. The old car can be used to store anything. If nobody knows who owns it, the car can be used to store drugs, guns, food stamps, stolen goods and whatever will fit into it. There are no rental fees or storage charges. Illegal aliens have the perfect deniability. San Rafael did not enforce its ordinance against "abandoned" cars until residents began to complain. When the city began to crack down on the old cars on city streets, the illegal alien advocates complained. They said it was "racist". They said it was a "cultural" thing that is perfectly alright. The illegal alien cheerleaders won. The city fathers backed down. The illegal aliens won. The neighborhoods look like junkyards, but nobody wants to be a "racist".

The city of Costa Mesa, California has an ordinance against farm animals kept in the city. Illegal aliens are keeping goats, chickens and no doubt other animals in their back yards. On weekends loud Mexican music echo through the neighborhoods while goats are slaughtered in back yards. Clothes hang on fences in front yards. Corn grows on former lawns. Garages have been converted into apartments without bathrooms or kitchens. One and two bedroom apartments hold three or more families. But, hey! Let's not enforce any of those "racist" ordinances or require any of those "Anglo conceived" permits. After all, we must practice "cultural relativity". We must adapt to the mores, culture and politics of those sneaking across our borders or we are "intolerant", "xenophobes" and "not good global citizens".

I dare you to open a church in your home. Hang a sign out advertising Sunday services. I dare you to open a small business in your garage. Either endeavor will bring you citations, orders to cease and desist and fines. Government thugs will visit you to see if you have the proper "business license and zoning". But, if you are an illegal alien, you can park a junk car in front of your apartment to use as storage for illegal drugs and guns. You can pack a family of 10 into your garage and charge them rent. You can raise a goat in your backyard.

The City of Los Angeles likes to set up "roadblocks" to check motorists for insurance and driver licenses. But, these roadblocks must not be set up before 10PM. Too many illegal aliens driving home from work were being inconvenienced between 4PM and 7PM.

What if you have a sudden illness? You go to the nearest emergency room and if you are fortunate enough to have a good friend or a family member with you, your financial history, assets, insurance card, social security number and other information is taken by a hospital worker while your insurance company is consulted to see if they will pay the costs. If you are uninsured or the insurance won't pay for certain treatment you may still get the treatment you need if you take out a loan or make a deal with the hospital to put up your assets as collateral.

If you are an illegal alien, you don't even have to give your correct name. You will get all the treatment you need. You will get follow-up care and medication at no cost to you. Hospital personnel won't even notify the Border Patrol. The medical community will give you first class service, while a senior citizen waiting in the lobby has to choose between food and medication. The hospital will even fly the illegal alien to another facility while the U.S. citizen whose insurance won't pay has to find alternative transportation. (This happened to me a few years ago. I showed up at Sierra Vista Community Hospital with severe chest pain. After many tests the doctors found that my left lung was filled with blood. They agreed that I had a pulmonary embolism and should be evacuated to Tucson. However, for some reason unknown to me to this day, I had to get to Tucson on my own. My wife drove me to Dorado Hospital in Tucson where I remained for 10 days. On the way to Tucson I was coughing up blood and every bump in the road felt like I was getting kicked in the chest. Had I been an illegal alien, I would have been flown in a helicopter.)

I became aware a few years ago of an incident in Phoenix in which several illegal aliens were discovered walking across a vacant lot at night carrying AK-47's. The Phoenix P.D. called INS which didn't respond. The police officers released the aliens with the AK-47's because nobody could determine alienage and the AK-47's were not reported stolen. It is a violation of federal law for an illegal alien to buy or be in the possession of a firearm. (ANY kind of firearm.) If the aliens were Egyptians, Kosovars or even Canadians, they would have been interviewed and detained by I&NS. But, they were Mexicans. Everybody knows that Mexicans are just looking for a better life. So..they were released and presumably are still in Phoenix with their AK-47's.

Every night armed Mexicans cross our borders with drugs and sometimes fully automatic weapons. Most of the time, these armed smugglers cross public land. Do you ever hear of BLM or Forest Service Tree-hugger Rangers arresting them for carrying a weapon on federal land? Do these Tree-huggers even try to detect and arrest armed foreigners on public lands? (That's rhetorical. In my 30 years government service, I've never known of a case in which Cactus Cops, Tree-huggers, or Fish Petters have arrested anyone except U.S. Citizens on public land with a firearm. In every case, that I know, of a U.S. Citizen being arrested on public land with a firearm, the "violation" was either accidental or committed in ignorance of the zealous way in which our green police protect the public.

What happened to the 2nd Amendment? Chris Simcox had a Concealed Carry Weapons license (CCW). As I understand it, the weapon he had was in a holster in plain sight, although he could have carried it concealed if he wanted. Chris was taken down at gunpoint like a common criminal and charged with several violations, among them being on public land without a "special use" permit. I own the public land. You own the public land. It is legal to walk down the streets of Sierra Vista with a .38 strapped to your hip. Yet, if you set foot onto "public" land where armed traffickers, bandits and other thugs are known to frequent, (and operate with de-facto impunity), you can be arrested for having the means to protect yourself as per your Constitutional right.

Additionally, I defy you to go onto BLM or Forest Service land. (Be sure to go during daylight hours so you won't encounter any of the privileged class with packages of white powder) Do something really crass like empty your ashtray in the parking lot or throw out some bubble gum wrappers. Some clown wearing a tan and green uniform and a puny little badge will come UNGLUED. You will have committed the unpardonable sin.
But, while you are on that "public" land, take a look around at the papers, feces, clothing, empty bottles and other debris left behind by illegal aliens. When was the last time you heard of an illegal alien being punished for creating an environmental disaster on OUR public land that is so zealously guarded against you, me and those dastardly radicals who actually want to carry a handgun while enjoying the great outdoors?

When was the last time one of our great politicians lodged a complaint with the Government of Mexico about Mexicans turning our public lands into one of the greatest hazardous waste dumps in this century? When was the last time you heard the Mexican Government complain to the U.S. Government about U.S. Citizens carrying guns onto OUR public property? Let me see. Was it yesterday? The day before?

Are you a property owner? Do you have valuable equipment on your property? Do you have a diamond in your house? If Fred Barnes tried to break into your house, you could intercept him and hold him at gunpoint until police arrive. Burglary is a felony. Fred having committed felony in your presence entitles you to make a citizens arrest of Fred Barnes and detain him for the real cops. You may not beat up on Fred Barnes but you may "use the amount of force necessary to make the arrest". If you encountered Fred before he has had an opportunity to burglarize, you could order him to leave your property and if he refuses, he has committed a criminal trespass, a felony. Theoretically, since criminal trespass is a felony, you could still make a legal citizen's arrest under Arizona State Law.

However, take the identical set of circumstances above and change the name to Jose Pacheco-Medina who sneaked into the United States last night. If you detain Mr. Pacheco, or if you prevent him from leaving or touch him in any way, you could be opening yourself up to criminal charges for Threatening, Kidnapping, Assault, Intimidating or practically any other asinine charge the liberals can think of. For certain, you will be reported to the U.S. Attorney's Office and the Mexican Consul. The Mexican Consul will demand criminal charges against you and will turn the case over to a civil attorney who will file a civil case on you. If you don't win, you will still be bankrupt and wishing you had just let the Mexican have whatever he wanted.

Do you have a dependant wanting to attend college? You can send the "child" wherever you want. If it is at an institution in Arizona, you will likely have the privilege of paying "in-state" tuition. If the college is in another state, you certainly will pay "out-of-state" tuition. However, the child of an illegal alien, who is an alien himself, can get a break in many states and pay as if he or she is a legal resident of that state. However, your child who was born and raised in the United States, and you, who may have served in the U.S. military, paid taxes all your life, has tremendous equities and by any definition is a stakeholder in America, will pay the higher tuition rate in another state than someone who isn't even entitled to live and remain here.

When I was a teenager, I worked in a grocery store. To do so, I had to go to the County Health Department and get issued a "Food Handler's Card". I didn't actually prepare any food for anybody. I just stacked cans and boxed groceries.

When was the last time you ate in a restaurant? If you were away from the border area, you likely ate food that was prepared by an illegal alien. You ate from dishes likely washed by an illegal alien. Do you think they actually pay attention to the sign in the bathroom that says, "Lave las manos despues de usar el bano"? Do you think the County Health Department inspected the illegal alien kitchen help for T.B.? Intestinal parasites? Hepatitis? Chagas Disease? Do you think the illegal alien who likely came from an ejido with an outdoor privy has accustomed himself to actually washing his hands after using the toilet? Next time you go to Tucson or Phoenix, or even in Sierra Vista and decide to eat in a restaurant, please enjoy your salad.

Are illegal aliens a protected class? It appears so. No longer is there a benefit for being a U.S. citizen. Illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican aliens, can have all the benefits of being a U.S. citizen without even being a legal resident. They can even register and vote very easily and without consequence.

Speaking of being a legal resident, why bother going through all the paperwork and hassle of getting an immigrant visa? Just sneak across the border, get free medical treatment, free education for your kid, the U.S. government will give you the means of purchasing a home of your own, the State will give you benefits that have been set aside for our senior citizens and poverty stricken, the cops won't hassle you and the U.S. government won't bother to kick you out.

Even if you are insane, disease ridden, criminal, unable to support yourself and want to "reconquer" this land for Mexico, Congressperson Kolbe will make it impossible for you to be arrested and deported.

If Kolbe can't do it by crippling the Border Patrol's enforcement efforts, he will do it by making you a "guestworker" who never has to go home and who can bring in his entire family.

Is this a good country or what?

Are illegal Mexican Aliens a protected species in the United States?

You decide.


76 posted on 08/14/2004 10:55:54 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: NewRomeTacitus

bttt


77 posted on 08/15/2004 4:20:18 AM PDT by lainde (Heads up...We're coming and we've got tongue blades!!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
BTTT!
78 posted on 08/15/2004 5:42:41 AM PDT by 4Freedom (America is no longer the 'Land of Opportunity', it's the 'Land of Illegal Alien Opportunists'!!!)
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To: NewRomeTacitus
....the key word is ALIENS, plural

The key word is ALIENS ILLEGALS, by the thousands.

Keep up the good work.

79 posted on 08/15/2004 8:19:59 AM PDT by Brownie74
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To: FairOpinion
DHS says the new procedure will only apply to those caught within 100 miles of the Mexican or Canadian borders, and only if they are apprehended within their first 14 days in the U.S.

This sounds like a kid’s game of Tag. If the illegals make it 100 miles or 14 days they are on the “Safety Base” and win the game.

We should be apprehending illegals whenever and wherever they are found, period!

80 posted on 08/15/2004 8:35:54 AM PDT by RJL
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To: PeoplesRep_of_LA
Gee I wonder if you are calling anyone who opposes illegal immigration a Racist like a liberal democrat....nah.

That's not what I'm doing, fwiw, although his post does beg a lot of questions along those lines as well.

There are tons of motives to oppose illegal immigration, like that they will indeed vote Dem for starters.

There are tons of motives to oppose illegal immigration, like that they will indeed vote Dem for starters.

How many illegal immigrants vote? Also, if we just legalized immigration from Mexico and made it as easy for them to travel here, work here, etc., as it is for Americans to travel to and work there, would that be OK with you?

81 posted on 08/15/2004 10:46:18 AM PDT by Texas_Dawg (2004 Doom World Tour.)
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To: NewRomeTacitus

bttt


82 posted on 08/15/2004 10:57:07 AM PDT by Dante3
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To: Texas_Dawg
That's not what I'm doing, fwiw, although his post does beg a lot of questions along those lines as well.

Oh I see, you weren't insinuating that people who oppose illegal immigration are racist against Mexicans like liberals always do, dragging out the racist, sexist, bigoted, homophobic pig lines. Ok, what were you insinuating? And what does "fwiw" mean?

How many illegal immigrants vote?

How many dead vote? Too many. Voter fraud is rampant in Oakland and Chicago, but I wasn't referring to illegals, I was talking about anchor babies and naturalized Mexicans. They vote Dem just like all other Catholics, I know, I am a Catholic and I see how partisan they are, just like Ted Kennedy's Irish Mass, Hillary's Italian NY, and Dailey's Polish Chicago. Inviting millions of Mexicans is inviting a demographic shift the GOP to a permanent minority party. I can't believe no one else see long term like this.

Also, if we just legalized immigration from Mexico and made it as easy for them to travel here, work here, etc., as it is for Americans to travel to and work there, would that be OK with you?

Of course not. Why would anything more than a handful of Americans what to work for dirt poor wages? They don't, there isn't a Boston marathon of white guys waiting to cross to mexico every night. What a stupid point. Its not ok because amnesty not only encourages more of it, but the ones who are already here are suppressing wages and driving up American unemployment. There's no reason its close to 6% right now with the economy humming the way it is, its just that the American worker has been sold out by Cheap Labor special interests and its getting worse fast.

83 posted on 08/15/2004 11:07:11 AM PDT by PeoplesRep_of_LA (Dreier; Too bad, he used to be a good guy. Now he's a good example.)
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To: PeoplesRep_of_LA
Ok, what were you insinuating?

See below.

And what does "fwiw" mean?

For what it's worth.

I can't believe no one else see long term like this.

California and Texas are both ~32% Hispanic. Texas is as conservative as it has ever been and becoming moreso every year. California is a solid blue state. Doesn't sound like Hispanics are the problem, imho. Sounds like liberal Californians are.

Of course not.

So please stop saying you are opposed to "illegal" immigration. You're opposed to immigration.

84 posted on 08/15/2004 11:13:41 AM PDT by Texas_Dawg (2004 Doom World Tour.)
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To: Texas_Dawg
California and Texas are both ~32% Hispanic. Texas is as conservative as it has ever been and becoming moreso every year. California is a solid blue state. Doesn't sound like Hispanics are the problem, imho. Sounds like liberal Californians are.

You are completely dodging the point of Mexican voters going Dem because you know its true and you want an excuse to keep the borders open.

So please stop saying you are opposed to "illegal" immigration. You're opposed to immigration.

I'll say whatever I wish, thank you very much. I am against illegal immigration, but legal immigration would be controled in relation to our economic conditions. If the borders were enforced there wouldn't be nearly this many coming in, and it would be orderly and we would know who is in here-problem solved.

You don't want the problem solved...what's your agenda?

85 posted on 08/15/2004 11:24:31 AM PDT by PeoplesRep_of_LA (Dreier; Too bad, he used to be a good guy. Now he's a good example.)
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To: PeoplesRep_of_LA
You are completely dodging the point of Mexican voters going Dem because you know its true and you want an excuse to keep the borders open.

I didn't dodge the point at all. I actually showed you that Mexican immigration means nothing to how a state votes. 5 of the top 7 most heavily Hispanic states are red states, genius.

I am against illegal immigration, but legal immigration would be controled in relation to our economic conditions. Nice. A command and control federal government. You'd like Cuba.

You don't want the problem solved...what's your agenda? Having a US that is as free and economically strong as possible.

86 posted on 08/15/2004 11:36:34 AM PDT by Texas_Dawg (2004 Doom World Tour.)
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To: Texas_Dawg; South40
I didn't dodge the point at all. I actually showed you that Mexican immigration means nothing to how a state votes. 5 of the top 7 most heavily Hispanic states are red states, genius.

Yes you dodged, or you're pretending that the % of hispanics isn't skyrocketing UPWARD. Your point made no sense, what do you think is going to happen to GOP congressman as their districts become hispanic Democrat? Ask Bob Dornan. If you think things are going to stay the % they are with the open border you want, then you are the MENSA candidate.

Nice. A command and control federal government. You'd like Cuba.

Oh lord, that is the dumbest strawman I've ever heard. Actually stopping people coming into our country illegally is totalitarian? There's never been a nation in history that DIDN'T at least check people. Why have a border?

You don't want the problem solved...what's your agenda?
Having a US that is as free and economically strong as possible.

Ahh, a Cheap Labor Republican. (I've found a 3rd one on FR for you South40) I wondered why your answers were so illogical. You're defending the indefensible. Well, we'll see how much mileage Edwards gets out his stupid 2 Americas comment in the swing states where unemployment is so high thanks to your greedy special interests efforts to make us "economically strong" which I guess is what you call undercutting American laborers these days.

87 posted on 08/15/2004 11:45:04 AM PDT by PeoplesRep_of_LA (Dreier; Too bad, he used to be a good guy. Now he's a good example.)
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To: PeoplesRep_of_LA
Actually stopping people coming into our country illegally is totalitarian?

Like you already said, you're not for stopping them coming into the country illegally. You're for stopping, or using a massive federal government department to try and control their coming and going... as Cuba does. (By the way, your handle is extremely ironic.)

Well, we'll see how much mileage Edwards gets out his stupid 2 Americas comment in the swing states where unemployment is so high thanks to your greedy special interests efforts to make us "economically strong" which I guess is what you call undercutting American laborers these days.

Not enough to win. Most Americans are a little sharper than you, so this populist crap doesn't really work anymore.

88 posted on 08/15/2004 11:51:47 AM PDT by Texas_Dawg (2004 Doom World Tour.)
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To: NewRomeTacitus
btt



89 posted on 08/15/2004 11:52:39 AM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat)
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To: PeoplesRep_of_LA
what do you think is going to happen to GOP congressman as their districts become hispanic Democrat? Ask Bob Dornan.

Touché!

How many ILLEGALS were found to have voted for Loretta Sanchez? Over 900, I believe.

90 posted on 08/15/2004 11:54:53 AM PDT by South40 (Amnesty for ILLEGALS is a slap in the face to the USBP!)
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To: PeoplesRep_of_LA

You're right. Even in Texas where Dubya supposedly had the Hispanic vote all locked up, Gore beat him among Hispanic voters by a double-digit margin. Once a upon a time, a democrat like L. Sanchez could have no more defeated a Republican incumbent in California's 47th district than a potted plant could. The Demographics changed all that.


91 posted on 08/15/2004 12:02:15 PM PDT by Cyropaedia ("Virtue cannot separate itself from reality without becoming a principal of evil...".)
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To: Texas_Dawg

You're not too bright are you...? It isn't the system that just Cuba has, it's the kind of system that every coutry has. Every nation has borders and immigration laws and it provides tourists/visitors with visas to allow them a temporay stay/visit. These visas are subjected to all sorts of regulations and people that violate these rules and/or overstay their visas are subjected to deportation. That is the way it works all over the globe.

Your proto-libertarian nonsense can't be reconciled with reality pal. Wake up!


92 posted on 08/15/2004 12:14:11 PM PDT by Cyropaedia ("Virtue cannot separate itself from reality without becoming a principal of evil...".)
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To: NewRomeTacitus
The evidence is increasing by the minute and still we see nothing of substance coming from this problem.Things are so far out of control that nothing less than a full militarization of our Borders will do.

In a previous post I reccomended that the Borders be used as Boot camp training areas giving us a presence everywhere it is needed to bolster Homeland Security. The greatest advantage to be gained by this is to replace the token force of Border Patrol Agents with professional warrior Soldiers and finally get serious from this point on about the infltration of foreign nationals into the country.

Start a rotational change out of these troops and keep fresh replcements going to other places where needed. This has absolutely got to happen and I mean now! Taxpayer relief has got to happen and we must use our best trained forces to ensure that we are protected. If Iraq can accomplish this we certainly must not fail to see this done!

93 posted on 08/15/2004 12:28:03 PM PDT by winker
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To: Cyropaedia
Every nation has borders and immigration laws and it provides tourists/visitors with visas to allow them a temporay stay/visit.

Of course. And how hard is it for you to travel, stay, and work in Mexico? If PRofLA was proposing that it be just as easy for Mexicans to do the same with coming and going from the US, I'd have no problem with his position.

94 posted on 08/15/2004 12:33:31 PM PDT by Texas_Dawg (2004 Doom World Tour.)
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To: Texas_Dawg
Like you already said, you're not for stopping them coming into the country illegally. You're for stopping, or using a massive federal government department to try and control their coming and going... as Cuba does. (By the way, your handle is extremely ironic.)

Uhh, yeah-its called a boorrrrrr-derrrrr Country Clubber. I'm not going to let down my gaurd and sing Kum Bi Ya My Lord and hope Mexico doesn't ship its criminals here to break into my house, or Al Qaeda doesn't get amongst a pack of "workers" and set up shop. (By the way, your failure to understand that is extremely dense.)

Not enough to win. Most Americans are a little sharper than you, so this populist crap doesn't really work anymore.

Its the other way around, while you RINOs think you are building some supermajority you are failing to see that most people aren't into talk radio or FR, and only vote their pocketbook. Well I'm sorry to have to report but AZ and OH and MI are swing states because of jobs and health care, and those two issues are being raked over the coals by Cheap Labor Republicans who undercut Americans to fill their factories or sweatshops, and allow the invasion to shut down emergency rooms all over the southland because Mexicans are so selfish they show up to emergency rooms for common colds and get treated for free.

Look Cheap Labor#3, as I explained to Cheap Labor#1 and he ran away; if you phoney "economically stronger" guys really cared about America, you would get your labor by;

A. Pushing for legislation to enforce Disability fraud.

B. Make the case against the convential wisdom that the minimum wage needs to be raised-it needs to be lowered.

C. Restrict welfare eligability and length of time on it.

D. Reduce the recently lengthed unemployment benefits. Hey, I'm no exception, people on these things are simply getting what they can. I collected unemployment a few years back and just happened to finally find a job right after it ran out. There is a huge population out there being a taker rather than a producer that should be filling your cheap labor void. If you Cheap Labor guys weren't such cowards you would seek one of those as a solution rather than excusing law breaking because its the easy way and then rationalize that its "the only way".

95 posted on 08/15/2004 12:46:44 PM PDT by PeoplesRep_of_LA (Dreier; Too bad, he used to be a good guy. Now he's a good example.)
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To: Texas_Dawg
Of course. And how hard is it for you to travel, stay, and work in Mexico? If PRofLA was proposing that it be just as easy for Mexicans to do the same with coming and going from the US, I'd have no problem with his position.

If they somehow had a border to stop Americans coming down-that would restrict them sending Mexicans north #3, and be a defacto-border enforcement that none of you want.

96 posted on 08/15/2004 12:48:44 PM PDT by PeoplesRep_of_LA (Dreier; Too bad, he used to be a good guy. Now he's a good example.)
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To: PeoplesRep_of_LA

Country Clubber?

Haha. OK, Cletus. Get back to me when you can explain why Texas and California have the same level of Hispanic populations yet California has a massive welfare state while Texas is solid red, pro-business, and pro freedom.


97 posted on 08/15/2004 12:49:50 PM PDT by Texas_Dawg (2004 Doom World Tour.)
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To: PeoplesRep_of_LA
If they somehow had a border to stop Americans coming down-that would restrict them sending Mexicans north #3, and be a defacto-border enforcement that none of you want.

Haha... you think they would ever stop Americans from coming and working there should they choose? Are you joking?

98 posted on 08/15/2004 12:51:48 PM PDT by Texas_Dawg (2004 Doom World Tour.)
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To: Cyropaedia
Gore beat him among Hispanic voters by a double-digit margin. Once a upon a time, a democrat like L. Sanchez could have no more defeated a Republican incumbent in California's 47th district than a potted plant could. The Demographics changed all that.

The truth is right in front of the Cheap Labor Republicans' eyes, but there is no depth that they will not stoop to keep the undercutting spiget flowing.

99 posted on 08/15/2004 12:52:57 PM PDT by PeoplesRep_of_LA (Dreier; Too bad, he used to be a good guy. Now he's a good example.)
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To: Texas_Dawg
Look Cheap Labor#3, Get back to me when you can explain why Texas and California have the same level of Hispanic populations yet California has a massive welfare state while Texas is solid red, pro-business, and pro freedom.

As was pointed out to your earlier yet you are dodging the point, Gore won the hispanics by double digits there. I am not denying CA is a state of many fruits and nuts, however the point I was making before you got on this tangent about the difference is that hispanics are and will continue to change the "solid red" you are trumping up exponentially.

Let me go real slow, if hispanics keep flowing unchecked into your state, and said hispanics vote overwhelming for Gore, then your state will begin to vote overwhelming D. How can you not see the handwriting on the wall?

Oh right, you're a Cheap Labor Republican and you're not being honest about your true intentions, I keep trying to reason with you.

100 posted on 08/15/2004 12:57:43 PM PDT by PeoplesRep_of_LA (Dreier; Too bad, he used to be a good guy. Now he's a good example.)
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