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To: Once-Ler
The fact of the matter is that most immigrants do not head for our sparsely populated rural areas-- they head right for our congested cities. Check out Los Angeles or even a rust-belt city like Detroit.

There is a very practical couple of reasons why we simply cannot throw open our borders and simply let anyone from Mexico who wants to move here to do so:

  1. If we did it for Mexico, we would, in all fairness, have to do it for China, India, Bangladesh or anywhere else.

  2. The United States simply cannot support 40% of the world's population (which I think is a reasonable estimate of those people worldwide who would like to move here if they could) on 4% of the world's land.

I do not dispute your statement that the United States could support a theoretical population of one billion. If everyone were as industrious as, say, the Mormon pioneers who settled what were then barren deserets on the west side of the Rocky Mountains, the figure could even be theoretically higher.

The point, however, is we simply will not get there with no immigration controls in place.

Even the so-called Golden Era of immigration from circa 1840-1920 had restrictions. You've no doubt heard of Ellis Island which turned back those with communicable diseases, those with no visible means to support themselves or those with criminal histories or even criminal profiles deemed likely to lead to a life of dependence or criminality. Other ports of entry operated in similar fashion.

Admittedly, the bars to entry (particularly in the peak period of this era) were rather low, but aspiring immigrants were required to clear them nevertheless. I have examples in my own heritage which both contrast to and confirm your Polish community example.

My wife's family came from Italy, settled in Italian neighborhoods and spoke little English. But they insisted that their children be educated in English and that the language of adopted country be spoken as much as possible in the home. The town I live in has an AMS Club (Americanization Mutual Society) whose original purpose was to do exactly as the name implies for Italian immigrants. My father-in-law is still active in the Sons of Italy, though he understands little of the language and speaks even less and he is one generation removed from Italy. Can you say the same of even an appreciable minority of illegal immigrants from Mexico who have been here three generations or more? And were not even asking that they forget Spanish as my wife's familty was told to forget Italian.

My own family background could also give you a lesson or two in what happens when you have an idiotic immigration policy. By blood, I am more native American than white. While I do not count myself as a victim and know many native Americans (full-blooded) who do not either, much of the good of our culture was destroyed by immigrants who neither cared no took the time to appreciate our culture-- some aspects of which we're glad is gone (abandoning the elderly, slavery, paganism, etc.) and some of which should have been saved (community cooperation, variety of natural seeds, appreciation for a slower pace of life and the arts which flow therefrom). The percentage of military veterans is higher among the Native American population than any other.

Patriotism is a necessary ingredient to preserve a civilization and patriotism requires time and nuturing to take root. Immigration does not need to be halted, but it needs to be slowed to a pace which allows this necessary nuturing to take place.

144 posted on 08/20/2004 3:56:06 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (crime would drop like a sprung trapdoor if we brought back good old-fashioned hangings)
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To: Vigilanteman
You've no doubt heard of Ellis Island which turned back those with communicable diseases, those with no visible means to support themselves or those with criminal histories or even criminal profiles deemed likely to lead to a life of dependence or criminality.

This only partially true. Until 1880 only disease was criteria for turning an immigrant back from Ellis Island. In 1917 all an immigrant had to do was read a 40 word literacy test IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE. Please tell me how the government had the resources and ability to do criminal background checks...even as late as 1940 if that helps. Maybe they had a REALLY big filing cabinet. Since the inspectors were inspecting about 40-50 immigrants and hour I'm sure that left lots of time for criminal background checks. Think about it.

146 posted on 08/20/2004 8:42:22 PM PDT by Once-Ler (Proud Republican. and Bushbot.)
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To: Vigilanteman
Can you say the same of even an appreciable minority of illegal immigrants from Mexico who have been here three generations or more? And were not even asking that they forget Spanish as my wife's familty was told to forget Italian.

Absolutely. The children of Mexican immigrants are learning English and American history in our schools.

Patriotism is a necessary ingredient to preserve a civilization and patriotism requires time and nuturing to take root.

Patriotism takes only one generation and often times less. My great grand parents got off the boat without the ability to speak English, but their son and my grandfather, only 17, lied about his age to join the navy and fight in the Pacific in WW2. My uncles fought and died in Korea and Vietnam and my brother fought in the Gulf War. Your family did the same. Today illegal immigrants are fighting in Iraq

komo news | Illegal Immigrant GI Granted U.S. Citizenship

And some have given their children .

Spc. Zeferino E. Colunga, 20, of Bellville, Texas, died on Aug. 6 at Homburg University Hospital in Germany. Colunga was initially evacuated to the 28th Combat Support Hospital in Iraq on Aug. 4. He was then evacuated to Landstuhl Army Regional Medical Center and later to Homburg hospital for further evaluation. He remained at Homburg until his death. His death was unrelated to the recent cases of pneumonia in Southwest Asia. Colunga was assigned to 4th Squadron, 2nd Armored Calvary Regiment, Fort Polk, La.

Colunga's father was deported back to Mexico four months after his death for being an illegal alien.

There are over 30,000 non-citizens in our military today. Some have been granted citizenship for their service posthumously.

I believe the vast majority of illegals come to America to find a better life for their families. I believe the current quota limitations on immigration leave these people little choice but to cross the border without permission. Too many heartless, and selfish Paleos equate that act with treason, terrorism, and identity theft. Their hyperbole leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.

147 posted on 08/20/2004 9:41:48 PM PDT by Once-Ler (Proud Republican. and Bushbot.)
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