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Border Patrol union says new rules 'muzzle' critics of the agency
AP ^ | 8-18-04 | Ben Fox

Posted on 08/20/2004 11:17:41 AM PDT by MindFire

Border Patrol union says new rules 'muzzle' critics of the agency
BEN FOX
Associated Press
TEMECULA, Calif. - New labor rules proposed by the Department of Homeland Security would muzzle internal critics of the Border Patrol by making it easier to punish and fire agents, who have often been vocal critics of management policies, union officials said.

The new regulations would take effect upon their release, expected in late summer or early fall. As proposed, they would make significant changes to rules covering some 50,000 Homeland Security employees, including immigration, agricultural and customs inspectors on the border.

Homeland Security officials say the regulations would give the agency the flexibility necessary to fight terrorism, but unions representing federal employees say the proposals rules are unfair to workers and would stifle whistleblowers. "People aren't going to be willing to talk. It's going to have a very chilling effect," T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council, said Wednesday.

More recently, the union urged Homeland Security officials to allow a mobile patrol unit to resume apprehensions of illegal immigrants in inland cities. The 12-agent group, based out of the Temecula station, made more than 400 arrests in June before the operations were halted amid an outcry by activists and politicians.

Union leaders defended the mobile patrol at a town hall meeting in Temecula on Friday, but Bonner and others said agents would be afraid to be so vocal "It would be career suicide, and if you get fired from a law enforcement job it's a stain," he said. "It's the kiss of death for getting another law enforcement job or even menial work." The proposed regulations allow the government to fire people for national security reasons under an expedited process; create new mandatory firing offenses and eliminate arbitration for removal,

(Excerpt) Read more at sanluisobispo.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; US: Arizona; US: California; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: aliens; borderpatrol; dhs; freedomofspeech; hutchinson; immigrantlist; immigration; shutup; tjbonner
I guess Asa was embarassed last friday when he was booed and heckled by thousands of conservatives in CA, and actually saw firsthand what citizens thought of him and his weak, illegal-loving policies; so he said "I'll solve that problem!"
1 posted on 08/20/2004 11:17:42 AM PDT by MindFire
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4.1O dana super trac pak; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; ...

ping


2 posted on 08/20/2004 11:18:47 AM PDT by gubamyster
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To: MindFire
Actually it was more like a mob being led by these yahoos.
3 posted on 08/20/2004 11:21:51 AM PDT by Dane (Trial lawyers are the tapeworms to wealth creating society)
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To: MindFire
BTW, I wouldn't be surprised that this union is supporting kerry.

99% of American union leadership does, IMO.

4 posted on 08/20/2004 11:24:20 AM PDT by Dane (Trial lawyers are the tapeworms to wealth creating society)
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To: Dane

There were a few posts about this town hall meeting here at FR, but they didnt turn up in a search. if i find them i'll post the link. The group at the town hall wasn't 'led' by John and Ken,. They are just vocal critics who reported on it. Yes, they have the leading talk show on a 50k watt station (KFI is the #1 station in America); so of course that gets the story (whatevere story KFI deems fit to publcize) great exposure.

I will agree with you that they're 'yahoos'! ;-) But they do some great work.
They are by no means 'leaders' of this movement/sentiment; they're actually just reporting on it and are an outlet for southern californians


5 posted on 08/20/2004 11:30:18 AM PDT by MindFire
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To: MindFire
Tomorrow at 11 AM there will be a demonstration in Temecula at Inez & Rancho California Road. If we want our country back we in So Calif should be there. Then let's organize for a run at the congresscritters. However,as much as I would like to attend I must be present at a wedding. Would like someone to report on this.
6 posted on 08/20/2004 11:30:22 AM PDT by Digger
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To: Dane

So...you don't think unions should have freedom of speech?


7 posted on 08/20/2004 11:30:58 AM PDT by texastoo (a "has-been" Republican)
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To: Dane

I hardly think TJ Bonner would support john kerry! from all i've heard, he is a patriot who believes in the Constitution and sovereignty. This is about D Vs R bah bah bah bah nonsense. you think anyone who criticizes the immigration policy in the USA is somehow 'liberal'? come on, get real. leftist, for the most part, don't even believe in borders


8 posted on 08/20/2004 11:33:07 AM PDT by MindFire
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To: MindFire
See reply #18 of this thread and the rest of the thread.

LINK

9 posted on 08/20/2004 11:35:12 AM PDT by Dane (Trial lawyers are the tapeworms to wealth creating society)
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To: Digger

They called in an announced that on George Putnams show. i have friends who went to the one several weeks ago, and know several people who went to the town hall meeting. Personally i thought the town hall was just going to be a staged, scripted event, so i didn't bother going. Once i heard the coverage on KFI and how wild it was, it sounded like it was great, LOL.


10 posted on 08/20/2004 11:37:17 AM PDT by MindFire
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To: texastoo
So...you don't think unions should have freedom of speech?

You don't remember the PATCO strike of 1981 do you, where a govt. union illeagally struck and shut down the nations air system.

And where did I say anything about their free speech? I was just mentioning that it is highly likely that the union leadership is behind kerry, just like 99% of the union leadership in this country.

11 posted on 08/20/2004 11:38:35 AM PDT by Dane (Trial lawyers are the tapeworms to wealth creating society)
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To: MindFire
oops, i meant to say "this isn't about D Vs R
12 posted on 08/20/2004 11:38:47 AM PDT by MindFire
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To: Digger

Remember gang, this is coming from a Republican administration. When we the people rise up against the illegals we fight the "Two-Party Cartel" that keeps us under their control. GW nor Kerry will change the status-quo. While we argue the swift boat vets they are turning out counrty into a 3rd world nation. Just think that to be president all one has to do is outflank the idiot Kerry. Sure seems like a cartel in politics to me.


13 posted on 08/20/2004 11:44:09 AM PDT by Digger
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To: Dane

I saw that reply and also her response in the follow up report. Wth all due respect, the fact that one tried and true Bush loyalist 'freeper' was there and is hoodwinked By Asa's illegal-alien loving nonsense, has no bearing on the issue. I know plenty of people who were there too and heard the entire thing on audio.

Beleieve me, they see through Asa's PR nonsense, as do most all people in CA.


14 posted on 08/20/2004 11:45:20 AM PDT by MindFire
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To: MindFire

I heard it all from both George & KFI. I had an appointment that couldn't be broken otherwise I was going.


15 posted on 08/20/2004 11:46:43 AM PDT by Digger
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To: Digger

you're right; all this endless chatter about the swift boat vets, etc. while it certainly has its relevance, is not addressing any of the current real issues facing the USA.


16 posted on 08/20/2004 11:49:13 AM PDT by MindFire
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To: MindFire
You can have your opinion. I will have mine.

I will trust Asa Hutchison, who I believe is a good person trying to do the best job he can with the legal and political obstacles in front of him, over a union leader and socially liberal talk show hosts grandstanding to the press.

17 posted on 08/20/2004 11:52:34 AM PDT by Dane (Trial lawyers are the tapeworms to wealth creating society)
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To: MindFire

We now have a few peoples attention & this crusade in its infancy is beginning to grow. By the next off election this will be front & center. By the next general election it will be the main issue & I will go out & predict that if the Republicans do not take this issue on headstrong it will be captured by non other than the Hildabeast & will win her the election. Remember you heard it 4 yrs prior.


18 posted on 08/20/2004 11:55:37 AM PDT by Digger
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To: MindFire

Hutchison is a traitorous scumbag and ned to be thrown out of his job like the rest of the illegal lovers.


19 posted on 08/20/2004 11:59:34 AM PDT by Bikers4Bush (Flood waters rising, heading for more conservative ground. Vote for true conservatives!)
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To: MindFire
Mineta and the yo yos at TSS have still managed to keep firearms out of the hands of the pilots

The bureaucratic maze they created have also managed to help baggage handlers lose
over 300 pilot handguns...(according to gun magazine I read at Wallmart yesterday :))

Some cleaning personnel also 'accidentally' ran a cleaning cart into a 'reinforced' cockpit door
popping it off it's hinges....(same mag)

The only thing created to deal with terrorism or illegal immigration is a big fat money gobbling bureaucracy...bigger govt with fatter bureaucrats

imo
20 posted on 08/20/2004 12:00:17 PM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: joesnuffy; Happy2BMe

>>Some cleaning personnel also 'accidentally' ran a cleaning cart into a 'reinforced' cockpit door
popping it off it's hinges....(same mag)<<

Are you kidding?


21 posted on 08/20/2004 12:08:49 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Don't be so open minded that Your Brains Fall Out--Respect shouldn't be given, It Must Be Earned)
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To: Bikers4Bush
Hutchison is a traitorous scumbag and ned to be thrown out of his job like the rest of the illegal lovers.

Big round of applause from California!

22 posted on 08/20/2004 12:09:37 PM PDT by janetgreen (CALIFORNIA - free-for-all for ILLEGAL ALIENS)
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To: MindFire
I hardly think TJ Bonner would support john kerry! from all i've heard, he is a patriot who believes in the Constitution and sovereignty.

You are exactly right, but Cheap Labor Republican #2 (Dane) needs it to be to keep you silent. We can't have this heresy posted on FR.

This isn't about D Vs R bah bah bah bah nonsense. you think anyone who criticizes the immigration policy in the USA is somehow 'liberal'? come on, get real. leftist, for the most part, don't even believe in borders

He already knows that, but he doesn't want YOU to know it isn't about D vs R, because that's the way he can keep control of you so you don't ask difficult questions.

Clearly this is coming from Asa himself who was angry and humiliated by TJ Bonner at that meeting were he dared called Asa's pathetic little crumb of OTM's being returned without a trial. (Which a border agent I know told me hasn't materialized yet, ha ha)and this underling had the gall to call his work "a baby step"

Asa is a good politician, in that he is a complete phoney who can pretend just like his fellow Arkansas pol to be the "nice guy" but this shows how ruthless he is. I was struck when referring to the sweeps that he said the border patrol had a good "supporting" role to play-which clearly said that his direction for them to keep the Cheap Labor shipping lanes open by direction of the top.

Your efforts are actually helping the GOP with tough love for them to avoid this TOTAL pandering to the Cheap Labor special interest of the party so that it doesn't lose the vast majority of its base.

23 posted on 08/20/2004 12:44:32 PM PDT by PeoplesRep_of_LA (Dreier; Too bad, he used to be a good guy. Now he's a good example.)
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To: Dane

Law enforcement unions have always been a split baby the members support conservative issues but when a union is getting decimated in its rights by a sweeping change like this, what do you expect them to do? It certainly is not smart of Homeland Security to do something like this just before an election. IMO most of the changes are not needed and are coveed by the smokescreen of National Security when the employees are doing the same job they always have.

As for the PATCO strike that was stupid on the union's part it might have worked under Carter but certainly not under Reagan...

http://www.socialistworker.org/2001/374/374_10_PATCO.shtml


24 posted on 08/20/2004 12:53:50 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: joesnuffy; B4Ranch
"The bureaucratic maze they created have also managed to help baggage handlers lose over 300 pilot handguns...(according to gun magazine I read at Wallmart yesterday :))

_____________

That's equal to 150 unprotected airline passenger planes.

They still let gun magz in at Wal Mart?

25 posted on 08/20/2004 2:13:06 PM PDT by Happy2BMe (JOHN KERRY is as much like the WORKING MAN as WHOOPIE GOLDBERG is to GEORGE W. BUSH! - Vote BUSH!)
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To: Dane

Sorry about the delay. Our electricity just went out. It is 103 degrees here so I guess we overloaded the system.

The article speaks of muzzling the border patrol. When you are muzzled, you can't speak. Therefore, I conclude this is freedom of speech.

Yes, I know about PATCO. These people were legally fired for striking illegally. My how times have changed. Now acting illegally is rewarded by suppressing the speech of those that act legally.


26 posted on 08/20/2004 2:39:19 PM PDT by texastoo (a "has-been" Republican)
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To: joesnuffy; Happy2BMe
"The bureaucratic maze they created have also managed to help baggage handlers lose over 300 pilot handguns...(according to gun magazine I read at Wallmart yesterday :))

They are just arming themselves with weapons they know will function properly.

27 posted on 08/20/2004 2:44:46 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Don't be so open minded that Your Brains Fall Out--Respect shouldn't be given, It Must Be Earned)
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To: PeoplesRep_of_LA
Asa is a good politician, in that he is a complete phoney who can pretend just like his fellow Arkansas pol to be the "nice guy" but this shows how ruthless he is.

I share your frustration with Asa but he had nothing to do with the proposed changes to the regulations which were drafted at the DHS and OPM level.

The new regulations will make it easer to remove problem federal employees as it currently takes an act of God to fire them.

The changes are minimal and greatly needed. TJ is a union guy and its his job to appose anything that does not benefit the bargaining unit.

In this case he is using the whistle blower issue. What he fails to mention is that whistle blower protection is provided under a completely different section of law and will be unaffected by these changes.

28 posted on 08/20/2004 2:52:07 PM PDT by usurper
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To: usurper
I share your frustration with Asa but he had nothing to do with the proposed changes to the regulations which were drafted at the DHS and OPM level.

I dunno, DHS is his territory, and the timing of this is more than suspicious.

The changes are minimal and greatly needed. TJ is a union guy and its his job to appose anything that does not benefit the bargaining unit.

I'm no union fan, but what are the changes? He's right when he says if you get fired from one of these jobs you'll never find a job in law enforcement again. You can talk all about how much of a whistle blower you were, but your resume is already in the can.

Another problem with this is a "whistle blower" isn't somebody who's just going to unearth a corruption scandle involving Asa and some illegal employment bribes or something, it could be something as minor as calling the John & Ken show and assuring them that Asa is lying about him not pressuring them. You don't get whistle blower status for that, apparently this fall you just get fired.

29 posted on 08/20/2004 4:12:42 PM PDT by PeoplesRep_of_LA (Dreier; Too bad, he used to be a good guy. Now he's a good example.)
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To: PeoplesRep_of_LA
I'm no union fan, but what are the changes?

The proposed regulations allow the government to fire people for national security reasons under an expedited process; create new mandatory firing offenses and eliminate arbitration for removal.

The union will still be able to go to arbitration for disciplinary actions (suspensions under 15 days) and over pay and performance issues. They will not be able to use arbitration in what is referred to as adverse action cases, which are suspensions of 15 days to removal.

In adverse action cases the union can still represent the employee but the MSPB Merit Systems Protection Board will resolve the appeal. The MSPB is completely independent from the agencies they hear cases from and has been around for years. Supervisors and managers has always gone to MSPB if they get in trouble.

The union does not like the MSPB because management wins about 75% of the time whereas decisions by non-government arbitrators are well, arbitrary.

As for the mandatory firing offences they have not been announced yet but I predict they will come as no shock. They will be things like extortion, accepting bribes, deliberate release of national security information etc. Basically employees no one wants around. It wont be because someone spouts off on the John and Ken Show.

30 posted on 08/20/2004 4:57:54 PM PDT by usurper
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To: usurper
They will be things like extortion, accepting bribes, deliberate release of national security information etc. Basically employees no one wants around. It wont be because someone spouts off on the John and Ken Show.

But spouting off on the John & Ken show could easily be construed as a release of national security information and no one would be the wiser. If they were, that person might be a martyr in some quarters, but who cares? After a few days, the guy's still fired, and the desired effect on Border Patrol has been accomplished by Asa Hutchinson.

31 posted on 08/20/2004 6:04:34 PM PDT by PeoplesRep_of_LA (Dreier; Too bad, he used to be a good guy. Now he's a good example.)
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To: Dane
BTW, I wouldn't be surprised that this union is supporting kerry.

The union is an affiliate of the AFL-CIO, which always supports the wacky left.

The majority of members on the other hand, do not support Kerry.

32 posted on 08/20/2004 8:34:52 PM PDT by Marine Inspector (Stan Barnes for Congress (http://www.stanbarnes.com/))
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To: usurper
It wont be because someone spouts off on the John and Ken Show.

Don't count on it.

33 posted on 08/20/2004 8:36:21 PM PDT by Marine Inspector (Stan Barnes for Congress (http://www.stanbarnes.com/))
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To: Dane
I will trust Asa Hutchison

You must admit, Asa is a pretty gay name.

34 posted on 08/20/2004 11:32:00 PM PDT by jmc813 (CAN YOU MAKE THE SAME CLAIM;ARE YOU A VIRGIN?)
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To: jmc813
You must admit, Asa is a pretty gay name

Sheesh, that's pretty low of you bashing a name with a Biblical origin.

ASA m
Usage: Biblical, Jewish
Pronounced: AY-sa
Means "doctor" in Hebrew. This name was borne by a king of Judah in the Old Testament.

LINK

35 posted on 08/21/2004 12:31:13 AM PDT by Dane (Trial lawyers are the tapeworms to wealth creating society)
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To: Dane

Don't mind me. I was drunk when I posted that. Got quite the headache right now.


36 posted on 08/21/2004 8:56:41 AM PDT by jmc813 (CAN YOU MAKE THE SAME CLAIM;ARE YOU A VIRGIN?)
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To: MindFire
This is just the latest attempt by the current administration to stifle yet another long held right, the right to criticize those in government without fear of reprisals for doing so if you are a federal employee. This trend is disturbing. It started in the last administration and still is going on unabated in this one. Naturally the Bushiebots will try to say that the opposite is either true or somehow more important than the right that is getting trampled on by this administration and will attack anyone who speaks out about their leader in chief.

I voted for Bush in the past but I don't think I'll be making that mistake again this time around, especially since I've finally opened my eyes to what he is doing to this nation.

37 posted on 08/21/2004 9:37:19 AM PDT by Ron H. (Karl Rove wants NO borders, national identity nor sovereignty for America!)
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To: Dane

Your not GW,are ya?


38 posted on 08/21/2004 10:18:06 AM PDT by SealSeven
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To: Ron H.

thanks for your comments,; i respect that you can call it as it is instead of adhering to a blind allegiance, as many sadly have. Scripture says "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge".


Blind loyalty to govt or to politicians has never been a 'conservative' or 'Christian' ideal, at least not one that i was ever taught. Your post gives me hope as I see more people realizing the truth.


39 posted on 08/21/2004 1:18:04 PM PDT by MindFire
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To: MindFire
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

Amen brother. Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

40 posted on 08/21/2004 7:40:18 PM PDT by Ron H. (Karl Rove wants NO borders, national identity nor sovereignty for America!)
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