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Exit neocons, stage left
AFF Brainwash ^ | Aug 22, 2004 | Timothy P. Carney

Posted on 08/25/2004 6:42:06 AM PDT by A. Pole

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To: Shryke
Luddite means "one who opposes technical or technological change". The only people here bitching about change are the Paleos. Explain, please?

Nothing remains stagnant. "Change" is always a constant.
"Change" can be either positive (constructive) or negative (destructive).
Luddites oppose constructive change.
Neocons oppose constructive change by undermining technological development with cheaper, antiquated technologies that are operable by unskilled slave labor.

41 posted on 08/25/2004 8:54:47 AM PDT by Willie Green (Go Alan Go!!!)
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To: dennisw
A lot, but not all criticism, of so called neo-cons is batty stuff based on theories of Jewish conspiracies.

Same was with the criticism of Communism. So?

42 posted on 08/25/2004 8:55:36 AM PDT by A. Pole (CIA Agent Mr. Young: "There's no difference between good flan and bad flan, and there is no war.")
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To: A. Pole

Well, if we don't fill the vacuum as much as possible, maybe the Chinese PLA will do it... or the Caliphate, or the EU army... who knows???

But if we're gonna be bitching that some of the architects of the current US foreign policy are pro-choice or favor homosexual marriage, we should be getting ready our red flags with the 5 stars to welcome the "liberating" army.

Shut up!!!


43 posted on 08/25/2004 8:56:41 AM PDT by El Conservador ("No blood for oil!"... Then don't drive, you moron!!!)
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To: Valin
A Paleocon, Someone who wants it to be 1934

Make it 1913. And that in 1914 Serbia were left alone. The world without WWI and WWII, without Lenin and Hitler would be a very different place.

44 posted on 08/25/2004 8:59:02 AM PDT by A. Pole (CIA Agent Mr. Young: "There's no difference between good flan and bad flan, and there is no war.")
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To: Willie Green
Please elucidate.
45 posted on 08/25/2004 9:01:00 AM PDT by Shryke (Never retreat. Never explain. Get it done and let them howl.)
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To: escapefromboston
how exactly does one define a NeoCon?

My definition: Liberals who really really like to blow things up so much that it estranges them from pacifistic liberals.

46 posted on 08/25/2004 9:06:23 AM PDT by NeoCaveman (Ed Herman for Congress. Together we can retire Dennis the Menace Kuchinich)
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To: El Conservador
if we don't fill the vacuum as much as possible, maybe the ...

There is no maybe - United States WILL NOT fill the vacuum - at most it will go bankrupt trying. Capisti?

"You can hold yourself back from the sufferings of the world, that is something you are free to do and it accords with your nature, but perhaps this very holding back is the one suffering you could avoid". (Franz Kafka)

47 posted on 08/25/2004 9:07:53 AM PDT by A. Pole ( Franz Kafka: "...the innocent and the guilty, both executed without distinction in the end.... ")
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To: A. Pole

"Neocons tend to blame their oponents of anti-semitism based on the fact that many neocons are Jewish. It is the tactic inherited from their Communist past when the anti-communists were slandered the same way."

This is true, and I think it's despicable how on this forum anti-neocons are called anti-Semites by some. I supported the war myself, but I don't see how you can deny that neocons are simply hawks looking for which party has a better deal on foreign policy.

PS: Their call for attacking Syria immediately after the Iraq War proves that they're absolutely reckless and that their thoughts on foreign policy should be disregarded by the White House. End of story.


48 posted on 08/25/2004 9:09:25 AM PDT by French-American Republican
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To: French-American Republican
neocons are simply hawks looking for which party has a better deal on foreign policy.

What charmingly discreet way of putting it! ;o)

49 posted on 08/25/2004 9:16:54 AM PDT by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan)
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To: Shryke
Please elucidate.

There are many examples.
One that particularly stands out is steel production.
Contrary to political rhetoric, the United States' steel industry is the most technologicly advanced in the world. Domestic producers are highly productive when measured on a tons/employee basis, and they do so while being subjected to stringent health, safety and environmental regulations.

Neocons, however, have been adament that our domestic industry shut down and consolidate this "excess" global capacity.
The luddites prefer the higher profits they can obtain by operating antiquated, pollution-belching technology that's acquired cheaply on the global market.

50 posted on 08/25/2004 9:18:47 AM PDT by Willie Green (Go Alan Go!!!)
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To: Willie Green
I'm sorry, but your steel example seems a bit shaky. I'll ask some questions:

1. Who are the "neocons luddites" involved with US steel production, and how are they responsible for its rapid decline?

2. Why would a US steel company, as you said a world leader, purchase cheap equipment and then operate polluting equipment, despite the fact that they already have stringent enviornmental regulations?

It also appears that you are suggesting that Neocons are against global trade?

51 posted on 08/25/2004 9:26:36 AM PDT by Shryke (Never retreat. Never explain. Get it done and let them howl.)
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To: A. Pole

Well, Alexander the Great differs from George Bush in a couple of major respects:

1) Alexander started from the West, not the south;
2) He personally led his troops across Asia; and
3) Alexander didn't have to worry about PRChina.

There may be some others.


52 posted on 08/25/2004 9:30:10 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: A. Pole

I love that Buchanan logic in action...


53 posted on 08/25/2004 9:30:14 AM PDT by El Conservador ("No blood for oil!"... Then don't drive, you moron!!!)
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To: A. Pole
but meeting the resistence from the original real conservatives who were anti-interventionists

Sort of like George Washington, eh...

54 posted on 08/25/2004 9:34:28 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: A. Pole; BlackElk

Forgotten by some is the fact that the Communist leadership (perhaps gone in Russia, but VERY much alive and well in PRChina) had a plan.

The plan was quite simple: spread US forces thin by fomenting problems all over the globe, then watch the USA exhaust its military and financial resources.

On cue, the apple drops.

You don't have to be a Commie to appreciate the plan's elegance, simplicity, and viability. Actually, it's a hell of a lot cheaper than building a bunch of missiles and navies.

Economy-minded types, those Commies.


55 posted on 08/25/2004 9:50:09 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: French-American Republican
Their call for attacking Syria immediately after the Iraq War

Keep up with the times, F-A R; they've added Iran to the list of "next up" targets.

56 posted on 08/25/2004 9:52:45 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: Willie Green
Neocons, however, have been adament that our domestic industry shut down and consolidate this "excess" global capacity.

The luddites prefer the higher profits they can obtain by operating antiquated, pollution-belching technology that's acquired cheaply on the global market.

And, by the way, they also managed to raise the price of steel along the way, by "rationalizing" elements of American steel production right out of business.

The next victim may well be NuCor, hailed only 10 years ago as the 'salvation' of US steel industry...

57 posted on 08/25/2004 9:54:59 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: Shryke
1. Who are the "neocons luddites" involved with US steel production, and how are they responsible for its rapid decline?

Snow, Bush Economic Team Want to Cut Steel Tariffs
Presidential Advisers Urge Bush to Drop Steel Tariffs
Bush Gives European Union and WTO Victory on Steel

2. Why would a US steel company, as you said a world leader, purchase cheap equipment and then operate polluting equipment, despite the fact that they already have stringent enviornmental regulations?

Domestic steel producers were not in favor of the Bush Administration's policies.
These policies were implemented for the benefit of the transnational automotive manufacturers (GM, Ford, DCX, Toyota and VW) over the objections of our most modern, efficient and advanced steel manufacturers.
Nucor chief says tariffs must stay

It is the large, transnational corporations who are pulling the administration's puppet strings to orchestrate the demise of our industrial infrastructure. They view the American Middle Class as merely a consumer market to plunder, a labor market to subjugate and a taxpayer base to shoulder the entire burden.

58 posted on 08/25/2004 10:01:51 AM PDT by Willie Green (Go Alan Go!!!)
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To: Willie Green
American Middle Class as merely a consumer market to plunder, a labor market to subjugate and a taxpayer base to shoulder the entire burden

Not to mention a friggin' nuisance on the roads leading to Door County.

59 posted on 08/25/2004 10:10:30 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: Willie Green
Nucor Corp. Chief Executive Dan DiMicco said the U.S. tariffs imposed on foreign steel in March 2002 are necessary to remain competitive

You are equating elimination of tariffs and encouraging free trade as anti-progress? I have nothing against the US steel market in any way, but, if they cannot stay competitive with the international market, why should we support them?

60 posted on 08/25/2004 10:11:44 AM PDT by Shryke (Never retreat. Never explain. Get it done and let them howl.)
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