Skip to comments.THE "New" CBS BUSH DOCUMENTS: Let's do some investigating
Posted on 09/08/2004 9:16:02 PM PDT by Howlin
click here to read article
The thing I find suspicious, is that ANY AND ALL memos similar to those, are purged from a military member's 201 file, and given to the service member.
If anyone would have had those memos, it would have been President Bush. I have 40 or 50 similar memos in my personal files AT HOME, not unit personnel files, from as far back as the early 70s.
That is true.
It is the property of the US Government.
Also, his suggestion/belief that Mr. Bush was speaking to higher ups suggests a paranoia that would have kept him in the mailroom. He makes a statement without any facts whatsover, but just what he thinks.
OK. Riddle me this: The PDF formatted "documents" are riddled with hundreds of "black dots" - that come ONLY from being copied dozens and dozens of times on a poorly cleaned copier, from an original that is a white sheet of paper.
But, why .... IF these "documents" were only just received (from his widow, supposedly - since CBS itself claims they were NOT among those released from the White House..... Why would they have been copied (run through a dirty copier) over and over and over and over again?
WHY make so many repeats of a private document that nobody knew about until yesterday?
"Side by side signature"
Wow, Look at the hooks on the "K"!!!! One goes the wrong direction!!!
I broke my neck many years ago, and as a result had to switch from writing right handed to left handed. Even under such a drastic switch, my writing never made such a basic change as that!!!
Jim Geraghty's Kerry Spot on NR Online has now picked up the story. I know Rush reads that particular weblog and I expect to hear something today on his show.
It has a #8 after it on the memo.
Too bad we can't do a deed search.
I love detective work!
Yeeehaah!!! This is going to be a laugh riot!
I don't have any clear recollection of IBMs from the early 70s, but I do remember that the high end typewriters used by executives had mylar ribbons that produced a page that looked printed. I'm pretty sure, based on intuition, that any typewriter capable of using a proportional font would have used such a ribbon.
The first document appears to have been scanned from the original rather than from a copy, because you can see through the magic marker and read the text that is supposed to have been blocked.
UPDATE 2: Reader John Risko adds:
I was a clerk/typist for the US Navy at the Naval Underwater Systems Center (NUSC) in Newport RI for my summer job in 1971 when I was in college. I note the following with regard to the Killian memos:
1) Tom Mortensen is absolutely correct. Variable type was used only for special printing jobs, like official pamphlets. These documents are forgeries, and not even good ones. Someone could have at least found an old pre-Selectric IBM (introduced around 1962). Actually, I believe we were using IBM Model C's at the time, which was the precursor to the Selectric.
2) I also used a Variype machine in 1971. I fooled around with it in my spare time. It was incredibly difficult to set up and use. It was also extremely hard to correct mistakes on the machine. Most small letters used two spaces. Capital letters generally used three spaces. I think letters like "i" may have used one space. Anyway, you can see that this type of machine was piloted by an expert, and it would NEVER be used for a routine memo. A Lt. Colonel would not be able to identify a Varitype machine, let alone use it.
3) US Navy paper at the time was not 8 1/2 x 11. It was 8 x 10 1/2. I believe this was the same throughout the military, but someone will have to check on that. This should show up in the Xeroxing, which should have lines running along the sides of the Xerox copy.
4) I am amused by the way "147 th Ftr.Intrcp Gp." appears in the August 1, 1972 document. It may have been written that way in non-forged documents, but as somone who worked for ComCruDesLant, I know the military liked to bunch things together. I find "147 th" suspicious looking. 147th looks better to me, but the problem with Microsoft Word is that it keeps turning the "th" tiny if it is connected to a number like 147. And finally......
5) MORE DEFINITIVE PROOF OF FORGERY: I had neglected even to look at the August 18, 1973 memo to file. This forger was a fool. This fake document actually does have the tiny "th" in "187th" and there is simply no way this could have occurred in 1973. There are no keys on any typewriter in common use in 1973 which could produce a tiny "th." The forger got careless after creating the August 1, 1972 document and slipped up big-time.
In summary, the variable type reveals the Killian memos to be crude forgeries, the tiny "th" confirms it in the 8/18/73 memo, and I offer my other points as icing on the cake.
This is major news....spread the word!!! Posted by The Big Trunk at 07:51 AM | Permalink | TrackBack (26)
You are incorrect.
The dem talking points are now, the Iraq war was wrong because Bush and everyone in his administration tried to avoid Vietnam and got endless deferments, and they are waging war in Iraq.
This is to take the war on terrorism off the table.
Feinswine mouthed this garbage. It's to shut us up.
That needs to be in a stand alone thread Howlin....do the honors....and put it breaking news.
Posted on 09/09/2004 7:55:59 AM PDT by pabianice
On a previous thread the author makes excellent points about the anachronism error in the "memos" the Liberals have recently "discovered" regarding George Bush's alleged "desertion" and "dereliction of duty" while in the Texas ANG.
A look at these memos shows another problem. A big problem. To understand it, you have to understand a bit about the military. In official documents of any kind, proper rank abbreviations are strictly enforced, to the point that, if they are incorrect, the document has to be destroyed and rewritten. A document forwarded with incorrect acronyms is returned for resubmittal.
The "memos" the Liberal Gang has "discovered," showing Bush to have been a shirker, all carry a consistent incorrect abbreviation for his rank. The only acceptable abbreviation for a USAF or ANG first lieutenant is "1LT." I have also seen, rarely, it written "1/LT," although this is the exception. All the "recently discovered" memos about Bush say "1stLt." While I am Navy and not Air Force, to the best of my knowledge, this is not allowed, let alone a mispunctuated memo addressed to Bush as "1stLt.3244754FG."
I am willing to bet a week's pay that these memos are forgeries.
The only thing that bothers me about this whole "forgery" thing is that the White House has not denied that these memos are authentic. In fact, Bartlett has as much as admitted they're genuine.
Not so to my knowledge. He has simply said he doesn't know why they were not in the official file and were in Killian's personal files.
Later on today they will probably come out stronger on this, or at least endorse the questions concerning the authenticity.
No initial denial means they're authentic. But, I still don't see what's so incriminating in them. We've known about all of this.
I have never seen a military memo addressed like this. Also, I never saw officers typing their own memos. I knew how to type and I never did it.
We had typewriters in the units in the late 70's. The only word processor I saw was in an actual word processing pool located in a large depot-level maintenance facility.
That's the Smoking Gun.
Highly unlikely that a man who typed th one space separate from the number in previous memos then waved a magin wand and created smaller keys on the typewriter and move the roller up half a click for a CYA memo.
CBS knows this was faked - that's why they pulled the "expect handwriting analysis and third party evaluator" or whatever. They could deflect blame when caught.
The is a discussion on msnbc now about these documents.Peter Hoff says it is strange how the documents just reappeared 20 years after a man has died.Hoff said a number of Republican files went missing during the Clinton there are those in the Pentagon, associated with the Clinton administration, who are messing with files of the President.
No one has seen these memo's untill last night .. I doubt the WH would deny or confirm something they knew nothing about.
To be heard soon on DU:
"These documents are forged documents by the Bush Administration to throw us off and make us look like fools. The 'real' documents which contain much more incriminating information was removed by Rove at the Pentagon (insert photoshop picture of Rove with documents in his socks)."
But no superscript.
Proportional spacing is a moot point.
The is a discussion on msnbc now about these documents.Peter Hoff says it is strange how the documents just reappeared 20 years after a man has died.Hoff said a number of Republican files went missing during the Clinton administration and wants an investigation to see if there are those in the Pentagon, associated with the Clinton administration, who are messing with files of the President.
The White House may not know one way or the other, and are taking a "wait-and-see" approach. Give your opponents enough rope...
There are MULTIPLE problems with these memos. Proportional fonts were only found on high-end, top-notch typewriters (which the military didn't buy); you NEVER saw superscripts on unit designators until the 1990s (it would be "111th," not "111th" prior to the widespread use of laser printers and word processors), and the usage of rank is incorrect--the "1stLt" conforms to Marine Corps, not Air Force/Air National Guard, conventions. I spent eight years pushing paper in the USMC, and these memos just ring false.
I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet (hard to keep up with it all)
There is an enormously obvious word-processing insert on this memo: http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardaugust18.pdf
Where is says "Austin is not happy today either"
The "not happy today either" drops down to the next line and is in an easily obvious different font from the entire rest of the document
This was something I'd been wondering about quite a bit. Given what I've read about the phase-out of the planes Bush was rated on, it would suprise me if the planes had even been available for him to fly.
Zoom in on the letter I in the sentence that says I will not rate.It is different from the other I's.
Item #4 on this link is the clincher for me, that drives me crazy with Microsoft Word.
I was thinking the same thing.
Remember the carbon paper and onion paper nightmares?
Remember the great smell of the mimeograph machine?
I always made sure I got those documents right because close proximity to a poison that may end up killing me one day smelled really really good ; )
"....Too bad we can't do a deed search..."
Next best thing:
enter the property address. Click each name & then follow link to ownership history.
Any recognizable names?
You better believe it.
I have read that Rumsfeld's first year as head of Defense has altered the Pentagon for decades to come (and lifers are ticked off).
They also lose turf (money and power) with the base shake-up that are coming to accommodate the war on terrorism by dismantling the Cold War operation they still have.
In a reduced size type? Just curious (I am a child of the 80s - lol!)
Not that I remember.
Compare John Kerry's signature (his J and K) to this document's (J and K).
If they match, good chance someone close to Kerry's campaign (who may sign his signature) did this.
I saw that at the "Kerry Spot" on NRO (via "PowerLine"). I worked my way thru college in the mid 70's as a typist. I can tell you, those IBM Selectrics were very rare before 1980...and they certainly couldn't type that tiny "th". No way this document was created earlier than widespread appearance of word processing in the 1990's.
Good work, Freepers!
Exactly. I was just talking to somebody on another thread about releasing the carriage and "rolling" it up to make the "th" but the "th" was the same size as the other type!
I rarely did the "roll up" thing. Maybe a math professor might care about such things, but your typical office memo just didn't bother. And especially if it were just a note to file....why would anyone go to all that trouble, not to mention having to clean the ribbon ink off one's hands?!
I haven't had any time to read this thread. I see y'all have been comparing signatures again. Please ping me to any major-development posts. I'll catch up tonight!
This may or may not be the case here.
However, as I'm sure you are aware, this wouldn't be the first time this type of scheme were used. Even if this were true in this specific case, it's very possible that it was done without the knowledge of the person or subject in question.
I think they were trying to convince us this was official from the Pentagon. This would, indeed, look like a copy of a copy stored like in hospitals or something like that.
Since that is not the case, this is supposedly ba first copy of an original, and Mrs. Killiam would have the original. Someone attempted to make this look exactly like the documents released by Bush ecause they weren't thinking clearly and had to rush this (I agree this October surprise was dropped early).
I am, however, curious as to why the original was not copied and notarized and kept with Mrs. Killiam and the original given to CBS? What did she have to lose? She knew they were going to run it on television.
Could it be because there are no originals? We know the answer to that.
Has anyone actually opened up MS Word, set the font to Times New Roman 12 pt, typed the memos verbatim and then turned them into PDFs? Compare them side by side with the ones being put out there now...
I received a copy of my grandmother's social security number application, and her parents names were blacked out for privacy reasons (policy in case they were still alive).
I had no way at all of getting that information from under the black mark.
If I type a letter, print it on paper with a laser printer and black mark out with a Sharpie, the laszer printed "rises" above the black marker ink. I've not scanned something like this, but I would assume the scan would remove the black mark from the raised laser on the page. I've also not tried faxing such a document.
These documents may have been faxed and received by CBS. The background marks are just too interesting.
How can they?
They came from Killiam's widow - not the Pentagon.
They are not part of his file of record.
Clintons are finally going to be nailed on that!
As other Freepers have stated, the IBM Executive had both proportional spacing and superscript "th".
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