Skip to comments.THE "New" CBS BUSH DOCUMENTS: Let's do some investigating
Posted on 09/08/2004 9:16:02 PM PDT by Howlin
These are the NEW documents "discovered" by CBS with conjunction with their Ben Barnes expose/confessional tonight regarding George Bush's National Guard service.
They've gotten some interesting comments on the Live Thread, so I thought I'd give them their own thread so you people out there with the knowledge can dissect them for their accuracy/truth/existence.
Do your thing!
Wasn't this about the same time he was making his pilgrimages to Paris to meet with leaders of the nation we were at war with...while he was still an officer in the Reserves???
Howlin, every single one of these memos to file is in a proportionally spaced font, probably Palatino or Times New Roman.
In 1972 people used typewriters for this sort of thing, and typewriters used monospaced fonts.
The use of proportionally spaced fonts did not come into common use for office memos until the introduction of laser printers, word processing software, and personal computers. They were not widespread until the mid to late 90's. Before then, you needed typesetting equipment, and that wasn't used for personal memos to file. Even the Wang systems that were dominant in the mid 80's used monospaced fonts.
I am saying these documents are forgeries, run through a copier for 15 generations to make them look old.
This should be pursued aggressively.
I think Buckhead is right on target. These documents don't pass the smell test.
Copy yours, too.......
I was just looking for people who've posted to me; I know nothing about this (among other things....LOL) and thought it would be good if we can get this information to people on here who do know!
I think the first order of business is who actually wrote those document and who gave them to CBS. I still can't come up with a rational reason for the supposed author to write himself "CYA" memos and not send them to anyone else.
One other thing: It also doesn't pass the smell test that these documents, which are essentially personal memos to oneself from 1972, would be around in 2004, 20 years after the person's death. Family members do not keep those sort of paperwork around for a dead person.
You're absolutely correct. I just looked at the files, and they don't pass the smell test. Most typewritten items from that era would have been in Courier font. And why would these items be copies, anyway, if these memos were for the guy's own personal file? They wouldn't have that run through the copy machine a zillion times aura to them in that case.
I'd like to see just one lamestream reporter ask one of these Dems why they are making such a big deal about this Bush national guard thing when they gave Clinton a completely free pass.
I mean, assuming the worst, that favors were bandied about re admission to the guard, how is that worse than avoided any military service at all? Assuming the word "worse" is even applicable as that war was so badly fought that plenty of young men were doing everything to get out of it.
The Dems are desperate and frankly are beginning to get annoying. Yet the media plays along. Dan Rather should be ashamed.
I'd like to know how CBS got documents from a man that has been dead for 20 years
they are obvious forgeries written on a word processor.
while his CO was concerned about the investment they had made, it is obvious from the second memo (and the fact that the CO never made any official complaint about bush's decision) that the CO was in fundamental agreement with Bush's decision.
Otherwise, were are the court marshall records for bush disobeying a direct order?
SHARPSTOWN STOCK-FRAUD SCANDAL. Texas went through one of its traditional and periodic governmental scandals in 1971-72, when federal accusations and then a series of state charges were leveled against nearly two dozen state officials and former state officials. Before normalcy returned, Texas politics had taken a slight shift to the left and had undergone a thorough housecleaning: the incumbent governor was labeled an unindicted coconspirator in a bribery case and lost his bid for reelection; the incumbent speaker of the House of Representatives and two associates were convicted felons; a popular three-term attorney general lost his job; an aggressive lieutenant governor's career was shattered; and half of the legislature was either intimidated out or voted out of office. The scandal centered, initially, on charges that state officials had made profitable quick-turnover bank-financed stock purchases in return for the passage of legislation desired by the financier, Houston businessman Frank W. Sharp. By the time the stock fraud scandal died down, state officials also had been charged with numerous other offenses-including nepotism and use of state-owned stamps to buy a pickup truck.
In the 1972 electoral aftermath, incumbent Democrats were the big losers, although at the top level of officialdom it was a matter of conservative Democrats being replaced by less conservative Democrats. Using the scandal as a springboard, less conservative Democrats and Republicans carried the "reform" battle cry and also gained a stronger foothold in the legislature. Democrats, defensively, charged that the whole scandal atmosphere in Texas was a national Republican plot, originated in the Nixon administration's Department of Justice. But before the smoke cleared, Will Wilson, an ex-Democratic Texas attorney general, by then one of the top Texas Republicans in the federal government, was hounded from his position as chief of the criminal division of the Department of Justice because of his own business dealings with Sharp.
The political tumult that was to become known as the Sharpstown stock fraud scandal started out meekly, though symbolically, on the day Texas Democrats were gathering in Austin to celebrate their 1970 election victories and inaugurate their top officials. Attorneys for the United States Securities and Exchange Commission, late in the afternoon of January 18, 1971, filed a lawsuit in Dallas federal court alleging stock fraud against former Democratic state attorney general Waggoner Carr, former state insurance commissioner John Osorio, Frank Sharp, and a number of other defendants. The civil suit also was filed against Sharp's corporations, including the Sharpstown State Bank and National Bankers Life Insurance Corporation. But it was deep down in the supporting material of the suit that the SEC lawyers hid the political bombshells. There it was alleged that Governor Preston Smith, state Democratic chairman and state banking board member Elmer Baum, House Speaker Gus Mutscher, Jr., Representative Tommy Shannon of Fort Worth, Rush McGinty (an aide to Mutscher), and others-none of them charged in the SEC's suit-had, in effect, been bribed. The plot, according to the SEC, was hatched by Sharp himself, who wanted passage of new state bank deposit insurance legislation that would benefit his own financial empire. The SEC said the scheme was for Sharp to grant more than $600,000 in loans from Sharpstown State Bank to the state officials, with the money then used to buy National Bankers Life stock, which would later be resold at huge profits as Sharp artificially inflated the value of his insurance company's stock. The quarter-of-a-million-dollar profits were, in fact, made. But they weren't arranged by Sharp, the SEC said, until after Governor Smith made it possible for Sharp's bank bills to be considered at a special legislative session in September 1969, and Mutscher and Shannon then hurriedly pushed the bills through the legislature. (Smith later vetoed the bills on the advice of the state's top bank law experts, but not until he and Baum had made their profits on the bank loan-stock purchase deal.)
The state officials denied all the charges, asserting that they had obtained the bank loans and made the stock purchases purely as business transactions unrelated to the passage of Sharp's bank bills. But as the spring of 1971 droned into summer, political pressure mounted on Smith, Baum, Mutscher, and Shannon-even on Lieutenant Governor Ben Barnes, who had been connected in several tangential ways to Frank Sharp, his companies, and the bank bills. By the fall of 1971, when Mutscher and his associates were indicted, the politics of 1972 had begun to take shape. Incumbents moved as far away as possible, politically, from the "old system" and the current state leaders. New candidates came forward, some of them literally with no governmental experience, under a "throw the rascals out" banner.
Mutscher, Shannon, and McGinty were tried in Abilene, on a change of venue from Austin because of adverse pretrial publicity, in February and March 1972. The indictment charged the three men with conspiracy to accept a bribe from Sharp, and District Attorney R. O. (Bob) Smith of Austin said during the trial that Governor Smith was an unindicted coconspirator. Prosecutors acknowledged from the start that the case would be based entirely on circumstantial evidence, which produced legal technicalities inexplicable to laymen. But the jury needed only 140 minutes on March 15, 1972, after exposure to hundreds of pounds and hours of evidence, to find the Mutscher group guilty. The next day, at the request of the defendants, Judge J. Neil Daniel assessed punishment at five years' probation.
The conviction of the Abilene Three dramatically advanced the momentum of the "reform" movement, coming less than three months before primary elections, at which more legislative seats were contested than in any year since World War II.qv (Redistricting decisions by the federal courts added to the high percentage of electoral challenges, but the Sharpstown scandal generally was credited as the main factor.) In statewide races "reform" candidates also dominated. The Democratic governor's race saw two newcomers-liberal legislator Frances (Sissy) Farenthold of Corpus Christi and conservative rancher-banker Dolph Briscoe of Uvalde-run far ahead of Governor Smith, who was seeking a third term as governor, and Lieutenant Governor Barnes, whose seemingly inexorable rise to political prominence was ended when his reputation was tainted by the scandal. Briscoe defeated Farenthold in the runoff and later was elected governor; but Republican candidate Henry Grover of Houston and Raza Unida Partyqv candidate Ramsey Muñiz of Waco drew enough votes to make Briscoe Texas's first "minority" governor. For the state's second top executive branch job, voters chose moderate Houston newspaper executive William P. Hobby, Jr., over seven other Democratic candidates as lieutenant governor-also on a "reform" theme. Reform-minded moderate Democrat John Luke Hill of Houston, a former secretary of state, left a successful private law practice to defeat the popular three-term attorney general, Crawford C. Martin,qv who had been criticized for his handling of the stock fraud scandal and for his own relationship with Frank Sharp. The Democratic primary and the general election of 1972 also produced a striking change in the legislature's membership, including a half-new House roster and a higher-than-normal turnover in the Senate. Most of the newcomers were committed to "reform" in some fashion, regardless of their ideological persuasion. The voters simultaneously indicated that their confidence in the legislature had been restored to some extent, because they approved in November 1972 an amendment allowing the legislature to sit as a constitutional convention in 1974. The convention failed by three votes on July 30, 1974, to approve a proposed new constitution for the voters to consider (see CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION OF 1974).
The final impact of the stock fraud scandal on Texas politics occurred during the regular session of the legislature in 1973. The lawmakers, led by new House Speaker Marion Price Daniel, Jr.,qv of Liberty, a moderate and son of a former governor, with active support from Attorney General Hill and Lieutenant Governor Hobby and with verbal encouragement from Governor Briscoe, passed a series of far-reaching reform laws. Among other subjects, the legislation required state officials to disclose their sources of income, forced candidates to make public more details about their campaign finances, opened up most governmental records to citizen scrutiny, expanded the requirement for open meetings of governmental policy-making agencies, and imposed new disclosure regulations on paid lobbyists.
BIBLIOGRAPHY: Charles Deaton, The Year They Threw the Rascals Out (Austin: Shoal Creek, 1973). Sam Kinch, Jr., and Ben Procter, Texas under a Cloud (Austin: Jenkins, 1972). Vertical Files, Barker Texas History Center, University of Texas at Austin. Tracy D. Wooten, "The Sharpstown Incident and Its Impact on the Political Careers of Preston Smith, Gus Mutscher and Ben Barnes," Touchstone 5 (1986).
Sam Kinch, Jr.
Exactly. Who was CBS's "expert analyst" on the authenticity of the documents -- Terry McAuliffe?
Terry McAlful quesions, "where were you" of Bush. A reasonable reply: "Along with millions of other Americans I was closely watching my TV, as Kerry committed treason." "And you, Terry?"
Anyone know how we can tell if these are "typewriter" fonts? I cannot tell but they do not look like typewriter fonts.
Good point. Those documents are absolutely forgeries based on the fonts alone.
The flight exams were and are called "Medicals", too... those forged documents used the incorrect term "physical examination."
3 Full Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires
the only way i would think these were not real documents would be if someone on our side did it to make dan rather and the media look bad. something to get back at them for all the outrage over faulty intelligence regarding the niger yellowcake forgeries.
This is beginning to sound like the forged uranium documents. Many people said that they were obvious forgeries at first glance.
Not all typewriters, as I recollect.
The most popular unit at the time was probably the IBM Selectric. And, indeed, it employed a monospaced font.
Another IBM unit, the Executive, employed proportionally spacing (and was thus hell to correct, requiring perfect transcription). But, as I recall, it was a sans-serif face.
The typeface on these memos appears to be proportional, but it is also a serifed face (Times New Roman or a similar variant). So, I would doubt the machine was an IBM Executive.
This is what Courier font looks like, which comes from a typewriter. Those files were written on a word processor, because they don't look like this text.
Check out the documents on Scumbags Site and they look totally different then these ones.
Totally different font. Hey no black dots everywhere on them.
Just an addittion to others observations.
Still looking at them to find some great example
You know who scumbag is right? You know Skerry!
Split it up and send it a little at a time by many different people. If it is long they'll never read it.
Frontpage.com already did an excellent job of debunking this whole thing today... this jerk wasn't even Governor of Texas in 1968 (he was in 1969) when Bush went into the Guard and the Bush's weren't a prominent family in Texas at the time -- it was still a Democratic stronghold -- this guy is also linked to Kerry and is hoping for a spot in his cabinet -- go to frontpage and read it!
From the transcript:
60 Minutes consulted a handwriting analyst and document expert who believes the material is authentic.
But then there is this:
Robert Strong was a friend and colleague of Col. Killian who ran the Texas Air National Guard administrative office in the Vietnam era. Strong, now a college professor, believes these documents are genuine.
My sentiments exactly. I posted this on another thread an hour ago:
It seems easy enough to disprove. Find an authenticated version of Lt. Col Killian's signature and compare it to the proffered documents (it should be easy enough through probate records if not military records). These memos look fake to me. Would a fighter squadron, even in the ANG, have a PO Box address? Is it too much of a coincidence that the only two people referenced in the memo other than Bush (Killian and Harris) are both conveniently long dead? Etc., etc..
It seems a poor fake to me. Someone needs to take the initiative and prove it.
Could the source of these apparently poor fakes be someone in league with Bush? Give then some line, let the press run with it a bit, then set the hook by demonstrating it to be unequivocally a fake. It would discredit all attacks on Bush. In fact, it isn't a bad strategy - like the fake documents that discredited all the good intelligence showing an effort by Saddam to buy uranium in Niger. The good is thrown out with the bad. Maybe I should get out my old typewriter and start writing some "damaging memos?"
Are these documents copies of hard paper originals or are they from a microfilm? Many years have past, it seems that they could have been stored on microfiche and sent to a printer for a paper copy. Mind you, I have no idea of what I am talking about.
In the very early 70's, the military's state-of-the-art word processing was done on IBM MTST Composers. They used a monospaced font printing format but used the same "font balls" (about the size of ping-pong balls and had changeable font types) as the IBM selectric typewriters.
I know how to do it,but thanks. :-)
They impact nothing. Can you name a single person who voted for Bush based on his Guard record? Anybody? Can you name a single thing that can be done with 32 year old memo's? Anybody? Forget about it. The matter is irrelevent.
Dan Rather just proved once again what a low life he is. Actually, he is in so much pain now. You know it hurts to be on the losing end when you are such a die hard liberal. I did not watch him and I never will. I do not watch CBS.
One other note: What everyone SHOULD be doing is loudly protesting to the FCC over CNN keeping Carvel and Begala on the payroll.. heck even NBC canned Maria Schriver once she became first lady of California (true was mutual, but she received lots of pressure due to having a Republican husband).
Yes, I do.
And you make a good point.
Honorably Discharged!...that's a fact.
There is a Longmont street in Houston. I wonder if this is an address for an apartment or condo located at 5000 Longmont #8?
Where did CBS get these documents?
"Let's do some investigating."
Fine idea! We should start with dan rather, whom I think may have made some conflicting and public claims about his bum's rush from the United States Marine Corps. Any experts on this?
(I wonder if Mr. rather's hatred of things military may stem from his rejection from same.)
You can tell by looking. In a proportionally spaced font, the width of each letter as printed is depends on what the letter is and is not uniform from one letter to another. In a proportionally spaced font like Palatino or Times New Roman, an upper case "W" is much wider than a lower case "i" or "l". In a monospaced typewriter font like courier, all letters are the exact same width. The development of monospaced fonts was necessitated by the technical limitation that typewriters advanced the platen (or the ball in the case of Selectrics) a uniform distance for each character. Monospaced fonts are measured by characters per inch, or cpi, 10, 11 and 12 being the most common in office documents. This measurement is completely useless with proportionally spaced fonts, except as an average. These memos clearly use a proportionally spaced font.
I cannot believe that these 3 Killian documents are the only ones found. There must be more so where are they? If no more memos exist, than these are likely fake.
That has been my point all night. You do not write these kinds of documents to yourself since they show the author to be derelict in his follow up. There are NO distribution lists on any of these memos.
could they do
The information you supplied materially advances the ball. Thanks.
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