"politically incorrect" facts about The Crusades

http://64.4.36.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=11299b3e3fe9b0332bc8082b48bf2f14&lat=1094719214&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fc1%2exsi1%2ecom%2fct2%2ecgi%3furl%3daHR0cDovL3d3dy5oZWJvb2tzZXJ2aWNlLmNvbS9ib29rcGFnZS5hc3A%2fcHJvZF9jZD1DNjQyNCZzb3VyX2NkPUhBRTAzMDgwM ^ | 9/8 | Thomas F. Madden

[NotchJohnson]

• Islam was born in war and grew the same way. From the time of Mohammed, the means of Muslim expansion was always the sword.

• With enormous energy, the warriors of Islam struck out against the Christians shortly after Mohammed's death. Palestine, Syria, and Egypt -- once the most heavily Christian areas in the world -- quickly succumbed.

• By the eighth century, Muslim armies had conquered all of Christian North Africa and Spain. In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks conquered Asia Minor (modern Turkey), which had been Christian since the time of St. Paul.

• The Byzantine Empire was reduced to little more than Greece. In desperation, the emperor in Constantinople sent word to the Christians of western Europe asking them to aid their brothers and sisters in the East.

• The end of the medieval Crusades did not bring an end to Muslim jihad -- Islamic states like Mamluk Egypt continued to expand in size and power, and the Ottoman Turks built the largest and most awesome state in Muslim history.

• Under Suleiman the Magnificent the Turks came within a hair's breadth of capturing Vienna, which would have left all of Germany at their mercy. At that point Crusades were no longer waged to rescue Jerusalem, but Europe itself.

• It is often asserted that Crusaders were merely lacklands and ne'er-do-wells who took advantage of an opportunity to rob and pillage in a faraway land. Recent scholarship has demolished that contrivance. The truth is that the Crusades were notoriously bad for plunder. A few people got rich, but the vast majority returned with nothing.

• The Ottoman Turks conquered not only their fellow Muslims, thus further unifying Islam, but also continued to press westward, capturing Constantinople and plunging deep into Europe itself. By the 15th century, the Crusades were no longer errands of mercy for a distant people but desperate attempts of one of the last remnants of Christendom to survive. Europeans began to ponder the real possibility that Islam would finally achieve its aim of conquering the entire Christian world.

• In 1529, Suleiman the Magnificent laid siege to Vienna. If not for a run of freak rainstorms that delayed his progress and forced him to leave behind much of his artillery, it is virtually certain that the Turks would have taken the city.

• Whether we admire the Crusaders or not, it is a fact that the world we know today would not exist without their efforts. Without the Crusades, Christianity might well have followed Zoroastrianism, another of Islam's rivals, into extinction.

[ninonitti]

Time to liberate our former Christiam territory.

[Jaysun]

Cool. Looks like it's time for "The Crusades Part II."

[freedom44]

The Turks aren't exactly the warriors of the mid-east.

They allowed women the right to vote before we did, and have banned the veil in public for decades, something unheard of in both our country and europe.

[ThirstyMan]

The Apostle Paul was known as "Saul from Tarsus". Looking at the map it appears that his home city was in modern Turkey. His missionary trips to the cities of Galatia and Ephesus are also in Turkey. He established Christianity there, but the area has been lost to Islam.

So how do we get Christianity back into Turkey?
Since Christianity didn't enter Turkey via military action, how could the "Crusades, part II" be the right answer?

God must raise up leaders and begin an awakening. There is a wonderful liberation in store for those who turn to Christ. That is what I am praying for.

[weegee]

The muslim occupation of Western Europe had to be defeated through combat.

The chutzpah shown by modern muslims has them requesting the Vatican to approve muslim prayer services in an "ancient" muslim mosque that was replaced by a Catholic church. The press neglected to mention that the mosque was formerly a Catholic church that had been destroyed when the muslims conquered Spain.

Look at Ask the Imam. They say that slavery is still permissible if the slaves are seized in jihad (holy war) and if they are divided up in a "muslim territory". Spain was used to establish a Western capital for Islam. That they see territories marked by faith tells me all I need to know about the true nature of their religion.

[Robert Drobot]

Europeans began to ponder the real possibility that Islam would finally achieve its aim of conquering the entire Christian world.

It isn't over, until its over!

This time it needs to done right. Salt every square inch of it, destroy all access to water, and outlaw and destroy all heathen images and false doctrine books and materials. Think the pope will bless this, the mother of all crusades.

[Jaysun]

Since Christianity didn't enter Turkey via military action, how could the "Crusades, part II" be the right answer?

I said that jokingly. However, Christianity did enter other regions via military action. Remember Constantine? In October, 312AD He had a vision in which he and his army saw the sign of the cross emblazoned across the sky and the words "In hoc signo vinces" (In this sign you will win.) He had the cross inscribed on his soldiers' armor. He went into battle and even though his forces were outnumbered, he won. Then Christianity became the official religion of the empire.

The wrong answer to this problem is to accept Islam as just another religion that deserves the same respect as Christianity. It's a cult and the ones that won't be converted must be killed. Christians are their sworn enemy.

I agree with you that God must raise up leaders and begin an awakening. For those that won't awake, I feel like the sword is appropriate.

[PJ-Comix]

The Byzantine Empire was reduced to little more than Greece. In desperation, the emperor in Constantinople sent word to the Christians of western Europe asking them to aid their brothers and sisters in the East.

And when they arrived in Constantinople, they sacked it.

[ThirstyMan]

I agree with your description of Islam. It is a cult of violence, hardly a "religion of peace".
That's Islam though and Christians must defend themselves using military force where needed, absolutely!
My comment, if we want to see Christianity succeed in the regions of Turkey, how will that happen?
I daresay that you cannot spread Christianity via the sword. It may work for Islam but not for Christianity.

[ThirstyMan]

Islam is a definite threat to freedom, the world over. As we fight for "freedom" we are fighting for the right to practise Christianity.
Can we fight to establish Christianity? I think we both agree that's not the way it works. I wish it were that simple, but it isn't. And...that's what makes Christianity different from Islam.

[Jaysun]

As we fight for "freedom" we are fighting for the right to practise Christianity. Can we fight to establish Christianity? I think we both agree that's not the way it works. I wish it were that simple, but it isn't. And...that's what makes Christianity different from Islam.

Certainly I agree that we can't fight to establish Christianity. However, there's nothing wrong with fighting to establish freedom. Once an area is free, we can move in and carry out the great commission.

That isn't to say that Christianity can only take hold if we first make them free, but when nonbelievers are threatened with their life for not supporting Islam, it makes the task much harder. Nothing is impossible for God. Nothing would thrill me more than to see massive conversions without first having war to establish freedom. However, I support war for freedom and then conversion if necessary. It appears to be necessary at the moment.

[neutrino]

This deserves a BTTT!

Also, here's a link to the main article that may work a bit better: link

[laishly]

"And when they arrived in Constantinople, they sacked it."

Actually, Constantinople was sacked and fatally crippled as a bulwark against the muslims by the Fourth Crusade, which never reached the Holy Land. The Crusade was hijacked by Venice, which supplied the shipping transport for the Crusaders and was more interested in loot than liberation. The Byzantine Empire was briefly ruled by an emperor installed by the crusade and lasted only a couple of hundred years more as a shadow of its former glory and power.

Ironically, the advance of the Arab empire had been forestalled by Genghis Khan, who sacked and destroyed cities across the Middle East and South Central Asia in reaction to the Arabs defiant slaughter of a diplomatic mission of Khan's. The impact on the Arab civilization was analogous to what happened to the Incan Empire. They never recovered their former leadership in warfare, science, mathematics, astronomy, etc. They were left as a withered and bitter shell wallowing in the primitive superstition that is today exemplified by the jihadists. Only oil and liberal "good intentions" has enabled them to infiltrate western societies to destroy them from within.

[ZULU]

We need a new Crusade.

Its time to liberate the Holy Land from continual threat by Islamic invaders.

[GarySpFc]

Ping - The Crusades

[johnb838]

Were the Arabs really ever all that advanced? Or did the advances come out of the formerly Greek and Zoroastrian societies that the muzzies conquered. I mean, I know the slamis didn't WRITE the books in the great library at Alexandria. But they did know how to BURN the books in the great library at Alexandria, maybe the single greatest loss ever to civilization at a single moment in history.

[ThirstyMan]

Good words, thanks for the AM dialogue!
Perhaps when George Bush frames the conflict as a struggle for freedom, that's what gives us such inspiration. Deep down we Americans know the "gift" that comes with freedom. And the power greedy Islamist mullahs also know and that's why they hate us so...and call us the "great satan".

Freedom is a wonderful thing.

[homeschool_dad]

If you're a Christian, the Crusades were hardly anything to be proud of. Church corruption was at the heart of it more so than any thought of liberating occupied lands.

[Knute]

So how do we get Christianity back into Turkey? Since Christianity didn't enter Turkey via military action, how could the "Crusades, part II" be the right answer? God must raise up leaders and begin an awakening. There is a wonderful liberation in store for those who turn to Christ. That is what I am praying for.

The Christian Church in Turkey is growing today and is poised for exponential expansion. In fact, they have even sent missionaries to other LESS enlightened countries! For reasons of safety & confidentiality I cannot share any specific details. Keep your eyes on Anatolia! Met many solid Turkish believers on a recent trip to this very interesting land!