The Muslim Masses Know Otherwise: Why Islamic "moderates" and Western apologists…

VDH Private Papers ^ | September 10, 2004 | Bruce Thornton

[quidnunc]

… create a costly smokescreen.

The brutal slaughter of children in Russia is yet another wake-up call we are not heeding. We keep hearing that we are at war, but no one wants to identify the real enemy — an Islamic civilization that sanctions such murder as the justified means for establishing the religious and political dominance of Islam in fulfillment of the will of God.

Nor are those actively killing in the service of this vision some sort of neurotic deformers of Islam created by conditions peculiar to the 20th century. From its birth in the seventh century Islam spread by fire and sword, creating converts as a by-product of conquest. Remember how much of the modern MIddle East had for centuries been Greco-Roman and Judeo-Christian, that is, Western, before the rise of Islam: Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, western Syria, northern Egypt, northern Africa, western Iraq — all were transformed into the "House of Allah" by violent conquest.

Remember too that Muslims occupied half of Spain for seven centuries and that as late as the 17th century the Turks were at the gates of Vienna. The current propaganda about Islam as the "religion of peace" belies fourteen centuries of aggressive war against those considered "infidels" to be brought under submission to Islam.

-snip-

[quidnunc]

Quote:

The difference today is that the political and cultural dysfunctions of Islam, laid bare by modernity, mean that this traditional imperative to dominate the infidel cannot be realized by military means. The cultural dynamism of the West — created by science, free market capitalism, individual rights and freedom, and the separation of religion and state — shifted the advantage to the West and ultimately led to the destruction of the Ottoman Empire and the imposition of Europe's political will on a civilization that for centuries had looked down on Europeans as barbarian infidels. This dismemberment of the Islamic empire after WWI-not the creation of Israel — is the true "catastrophe" Bin Laden has referred to and that his terrorism seeks to reverse.

Losers with an attitude!

[2banana]

We keep hearing that we are at war, but no one wants to identify the real enemy — an Islamic civilization that sanctions such murder as the justified means for establishing the religious and political dominance of Islam in fulfillment of the will of God.

Reminds me of this quote:

"It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry peace, peace, but there is no peace. The war is actually begun. The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears theclash of resounding arms. Our brethren are already in the field. Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!" --Patrick Henry (1736-1799),"The War Inevitable" speech to the Virginia Convention, March 23, 1775

[aruanan]

Any thoughtful person who knows history and religion would be anti-Islam. Along with Communism, Naziism, and the Black Death, Islam has been responsible for more death and destruction on the face of the planet than just about anything else since the last asteroid impact. Islam was started by predators. It has spread by predation. It has lived off the decaying corpses of the civilizations it has destroyed. It is a vast, ancient sea of corruption, oppression, fanaticism, and ignorance lapping up against the shores of the present, kept alive by the fortuitous accident of living above huge reserves of petroleum.

[PeoplesRep_of_LA]

shifted the advantage to the West and ultimately led to the destruction of the Ottoman Empire and the imposition of Europe's political will on a civilization that for centuries had looked down on Europeans as barbarian infidels.

Had? Like they are humble and accommodating now?

The dirty little secret here is that since the "prophet" himself, Islam has been an political Arabian nationalistic "faith" for military conquest. That's why Sharia is so common amoungst these nations, what we consider to be fundamentally "good" in the vague concepts of "freedom" and democracy is actually against the strict interpretation of their religion.

Unfortunately this world is not big enough for the both of us, meaning civilization vs Islam. I think in the age of the internet you are seeing the last gasps of an increasingly marginalized and questioned totalitarian rule within the muslim nations. That's the "root cause" the media has missed out on. There are lots of poor people in the world, always have been. But these relics are struggling to maintain total control of their mind numbed subjects, and they see it slipping away in their young people becoming so cynical and Western about the merits of worshipping the moon god of Mecca.

But alot of people are dying, and just as it was with Nazism and Communism, the inferior totalitarian system of rule had to be fought by America our it could have conquored the world. Since we aren't going back to our pagen middle aged ways, I think something is going to have to be done about islam.

[ApesForEvolution]

Very, very well said and thanks for the PING!

Muhammadanism in and of itself needs to go the way of Cannibalistic tribes.

[jordan8]

but no one wants to identify the real enemy

Just keep them out of the West. Russia should give independence to Chechnya, and any other Muslim republic on the geographical fringes, who need them? Will they ever provide anything positive for society.? As I said on another thread, Russia needs Chechnya like your foot needs a gangrenous toe. This separation should be accompanied by a thorough ethnic repatriation, by the acknowlegement that the values of the antagonists are just too different to live in harmony together. Then Russia would worry no more about Islamic terrorism. The enemy, Vickie, is the suicidal doctrine of multiculturalism, not Islamic terrorism.

The cultural dynamism of the West--created by science, free market capitalism, individual rights and freedom, and the separation of religion and state

Here he falls into error. Only the dedication to science is beyond dispute on this list. The West was rising when most of its countries were ruled by kings, its people were subjects, and state religions were the norm.

[nosofar]

It would have been better to 1) hit Afghanistan as hard as possible to inform terrorists that the U.S was not an easy target. (Hopefully, this is what Iraq will do, but if we go PC there, this goal will have been undermined.) They would then have gone after Europe instead as a softer target, as they did in Spain. This would have forced European nations to a stark decision to either surrender or fight. As it stands now, too many can continue to avoid reality and follow the same vague policies of appeasement and wishful thinking as before. Yes, I know this is too simplistic; there are other factors to consider; this is monday-morning quarterbacking, etc.

[snuffy smiff]

bttt

[Check_Your_Premises]

Nice wordsmithing!

[Tolik]

Food for thoughts!

Interesting article by Bruce Thornton PING

This ping list is not author-specific for articles I'd like to share. Some for perfect moral clarity, some for provocative thoughts; or simply interesting articles I'd hate to miss myself. (I don't have to agree with the author 100% to feel the need to share an article.) I will try not to abuse the ping list and not to annoy you too much, but on some days there is more of good stuff that is worthy attention. I keep separate PING lists for my favorite authors Victor Davis Hanson, Lee Harris, David Warren, Orson Scott Card. You are welcome in or out, just freepmail me (and note which PING list you are talking about).

[metesky]

Good article.

Thanks for the ping, Tolik.

[silversky]

Nice thread bump.

[aruanan]

Nice wordsmithing!

Thanks. It came as a distillation of having read From Time Immemorial by Joan Peters under the impetus of something terrorist in the news.

[Victoria Delsoul]

The brutal slaughter of children in Russia is yet another wake-up call we are not heeding. We keep hearing that we are at war, but no one wants to identify the real enemy - an Islamic civilization that sanctions such murder as the justified means for establishing the religious and political dominance of Islam in fulfillment of the will of God.

Where are the Muslim moderates right now? If they really condemned these atrocities, why aren't their Leaders issuing a public condemnation of these heinous crimes? Where are they? Not just a condemnation, but a serious attempt to apprehend and annihilate these terrorists. You won't find any, because they're not moderates, extremists, or in between - they are just Muslims whose religious fanaticism is called Islam, and seeks the destruction of those who don't kneel to Allah.

[wardaddy]

BTTT

[lainde]

Tolik...I found this one on my own. But I knew if I scrolled down i would see your Moral Clarity list:~)

[Tolik]

Thanks, but I am not omnipotent, and appreciate pings from others as well. Kudos must go to quidnunc for posting this article.

[Conservative til I die]

Where are the Muslim moderates right now? If they really condemned these atrocities, why aren't their Leaders issuing a public condemnation of these heinous crimes? Where are they? Not just a condemnation, but a serious attempt to apprehend and annihilate these terrorists. You won't find any, because they're not moderates, extremists, or in between - they are just Muslims whose religious fanaticism is called Islam, and seeks the destruction of those who don't kneel to Allah.

"Moderate" Muslims are a bunch of phony bastards. Even watching this 9/11 documentary on A&E, the footage of one guy arguing with a Muslim woman raising funds for 9/11 victims outside the 96th Street Mosque a few days after, all she was saying was "You have to realize we aren't all that way. Don't attack Muslims. We have a right to religion too." No real sorrow, not much to say about the attack itself. And that's all I hear from them to this day, defensiveness and paranoia.

[Victoria Delsoul]

And that's all I hear from them to this day, defensiveness and paranoia.

You have a point. Where is the outrage? There is no real anger among them or strong criticism.

[longtermmemmory]

The arab street is trained. They know to ignore whatever is in the presss. They know islam's legacy is actions not words.