No Escape Route for CBS - Recommended Response from Killian Family

[lonestar]

"Legitimate" and "Dan Rather" cannot legitimately appear in the same sentence.

[SlickWillard]

I'm not aware of an instance of any of the cited historical figures responding to slanderous lies by simply killing the perp.

[Wrong thread, by the way.]

Andrew Jackson killed a man named Charles Dickinson, although there appears to be some debate as to whether it was over an insult to his wife [in regard to some irregularities concerning her divorce from her first husband]

http://www.historychannel.com/tdih/tdih.jsp?category=general&month=10272957&day=10272995

or whether it was because Dickinson had called Jackson a "worthless scoundrel ... a poltroon and a coward."

http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/P/aj7/about/bio/duel.htm

It looks like you were right in that the killing took place within the confines of a duel [I had always had it in the back of my mind that Jackson just let loose on the guy], although The History Channel link above hints that Jackson was rumored to have fought a number of these duels during his life [in regards to the question of his wife's honor - and yes, I am curious as to why her first husband divorced her].

Anyway, it would be interesting if one of the sons in the Killian family were to challenge Moonves to a duel.

But again, for the record, if I were the aggrieved party, I don't think I'd go to the bother of challenging Moonves to a dual - I think I'd just kill the son of a bitch.

[TheLion]

Maybe we could get their address if nobody knows the players.

One point, however, wouldn't suing them for using your personal papers, validate that they actually exist?

I would sue for fraud and character deflamation.

[Southack]

Oh, the "article" idea for this thread itself is dreadfully amateurish and wrongheaded.

Claiming that the forged docs are real personal papers is boneheaded, idiotic, and would actually *aid* CBS.

The forged documents contain *military* orders. That means that someone has forged official military business; treason.

The forged documents do slander Col Killian, but that doesn't make them "personal" papers. You sue for the slanderous or libelous offense, not for "copyright" violations, of which there are none because the documents are "owned" by the forger, not the Killian family.

1 Full Legislative Day Left Until The AWB Expires

[SlickWillard]

[Wrong thread, by the way.]

My bad - there are so many of these CBS threads, I can't keep them all straight.

[mombonn]

I certainly hope the have some recourse. What cBS has done is despicable.

[okie01]

"The story is true. The story is true," Rather said. "The questions raised in the story are serious and legitimate questions."

The story is "true", Dan, only if the documents are "real". But there are "serious and legitimate questions" about the authenticity of the documents.

Let's resolve those first, huh? Before we start claiming that "the questions raised in the story" are something other than a left-wing journalist's wet dream.

[Mo1]

It is my understanding that Hodges and Staudt would have good cause for action claiming defamation

I'm not a lawyer, but if I was to take a guess .. depending on all the info, they could file a civil case I would think

IF there was a criminal case it would be forging a military order and forging the signature of a military officer

[Mo1]

CBS says they were "personal".

The order (forged) is not personal

[gov_bean_ counter]

Typed on government property with an Air National Guard letter head. By regulation they aren't personal property.

[firewalk]

nope...but here's a bttt

[mabelkitty]

It's been my theory that they deliberately tried to put these out there as official, and when caught, backed down and dug in on the origin.
They got them from DNC/Kerry campaign (who were handed these by the AP's FOIA request) and mixed in.

Or, CBS really did get them from Marty Heldt.

Either way, they are in deep trouble.

[Timeout]

How about this:

Public statement and press release by SON (mother by his side):

Based on overwhelming forensic evidence, significant internal discrepancies, and our intimate knowledge of the husband and father we knew as Lieutenant Colonel Jerry Killian, we believe the documents presented on CBS 60 minutes II are forgeries.

According to CBS, these are purported to be personal records of LtCol Killian and, if genuine, would rightfully belong with his family. But we have never seen these documents. We did not and would never authorize any documents of this nature for public release.

CBS News has harmed my father's good name and memory by broadcasting forged documents they alledge were written by him. Today we are demanding that CBS News RELEASE ANY AND ALL DOCUMENTS THEY HAVE IN THEIR POSSESSION WHICH THEY ALLEGE ARE THE "PERSONAL" PAPERS OF MY LATE FATHER. We want the release to be public, not just to the family. Since we believe these documents are forgeries, we hope other media outlets will examine them and determine whether CBS relied on shoddy forgeries to "sex up" their story.

To date, CBS has refused to release these documents. We believe the family has a right to see them. Thank you.

[StarFan]

I'm a bit confused. Did CBS go on record to call the documents 'personal' records? I didn't catch that and wonder how a military order could be classified as such. If personal, than the Killians have legal grounds but we may never know where they originated unless theft and defamation are remedies sought. However, if they're military orders, than our prayers of learning the source will be answered once the Justice Dept. gets involved.

[Timeout]

I bleieve CBS described them as "memos to himself" from his "personal secret files".

[piasa]

You know, Kerry used a dead informant as a "source" at least once before.

Back in 1986, as a matter of fact- wonder if there were forged documents involved then as well?

1986 : (KERRY LAUNCHES HIS OWN "INVESTIGATION" TO DISCREDIT THE NICARAGUAN RESISTANCE AND THE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION AS WELL AS TO HARASS OPPONENTS OF THE SANDINISTA REGIME) Kerry Launches His Own 'Investigation': Fed by supportive journalists and Washington-based think tanks that supported the Sandinistas, Kerry put his experience as a former assistant county prosecutor to work in 1986, launching a full-scale "investigation" of his own to discredit the Nicaraguan resistance and the Reagan administration. His probe, alleging an international criminal conspiracy, coincided with lawsuits against retired Army Gen. John Singlaub and others in what was called a legal harassment campaign against American opponents of the Sandinista regime, alleging bizarre international plots.

The cases collapsed under legal scrutiny but made sensational headlines that fueled Reagan opponents for years. The first significant lawsuit was filed in May of that year by Tony Avirgan and his wife Martha Honey, two U.S. journalists who were open Sandinista sympathizers. Evidence in their lawsuit, much of which Kerry and his staff recycled as public statements, was based "largely on information from a dead informant whom they never met and identified only as 'David X,'" the Washington Times' James Morrison reported at the time. According to Morrison, Avirgan "admitted that he had never met David X," who "was the source of the information of the entire conspiracy."

Fed by Honey and Avirgan, who worked closely with his staff, Kerry gave the false allegations credibility in the press. Despite its accomplishments in muddying the waters of the emotional Central America debate, the Kerry probe kept falling apart. One key witness, British soldier of fortune Peter Glibbery, swore that Kerry staffers bribed him to accuse Sandinista opponents of crimes, only to recant the next day. Others, including a former French soldier named Claude Chaffard, said that Kerry staffers promised to help him out with U.S. visa problems and paid him money while he cooperated.
--Kerry's Disloyal Nicaraguan Journey, by J. Michael Waller, Insight Magazine, May 17, 2004

[Wolfstar]

Miss Marple, they can't on the one hand be forgeries and on the other hand be claimed as the private papers of the late Col. Killian. They are one or the other, but not both, unless it is alleged that Killian created the fraudulent documents. This statement sounds like the family is trying to cover all their bases because they don't know for certain that the documents are frauds. They may not have intended it that way, but it's how the statement reads.

[piasa]

The family didn't make the statement- it's just some freeper's "suggested statement." At least that's how I read it...

[Wolfstar]

Thanks, I didn't realize that was the situation.

[piasa]

Trivia time...have you seen this yet?

JULY 28, 2004 : (MASS : JOHN KERRY, JOHN EDWARDS & FILM PRODUCER STEPHEN BING ARRIVE IN BOSTON FOR THE DNC CONVENTION - KERRY'S BIGGEST CONTRIBUTOR IS BING- BING'S BUSINESS PARTNER AND FRIEND IS NY MAFIA FIGURE DOMINIC MONTEMARANO aka DONNIE SHACKS - CURRENTLY IN PRISON ON RACKETERRING CHARGES) As Sens. John Kerry and John Edwards arrived in Boston today for the Democratic National Convention, so did the California man who is their single biggest contributor. He is Stephen Bing, a wealthy film producer who, with little fanfare, has managed to steer a total of more than $16 million of his money to Democratic candidates and the supposedly independent groups that support them.
"To most of the people who track money and politics, they're like, who the hell is Steve Bing?" said Chuck Lewis, founder of the Center for Public Integrity, a nonprofit, nonpartisan watchdog organization. Bing is perhaps best known for sparking a tabloid frenzy when he publicly expressed doubt that he was the father of actress Elizabeth Hurley's baby. (A paternity test proved he was indeed the father.) He repeatedly has refused to say why he is funneling millions of dollars to the Democrats. Lewis thinks it is cause for concern. "We can identify who the big donors are, but how much do we really know about any of them?" he said.
In fact, Democratic Party officials said they knew nothing about the man who law enforcement officials tell ABC News is Bing's friend and business partner — Dominic Montemarano, a New York Mafia figure currently in federal prison on racketeering charges. Montemarano has a long criminal record and is known to organized crime investigators by his street name, Donnie Shacks.
"Donnie Shacks' main activity was murder. No question about it. That was his main function for the Colombo family and for organized crime in general. He was one of the top hit men in the New York area," said Joe Coffey, a former NYPD investigator.
According to The Los Angeles Times, Bing paid Montemarano's legal fees after his most recent scrape with the law. Montemerano's lawyer said his client was an employee of Bing's.
After a recent private lunch with Democratic vice-presidential candidate Edwards, Bing also declined to answer questions about his relationship with Montemarano. The American people have a right to know who's funding their presidential candidates and their parties," Lewis said. "The Bing situation shows us how little we really know." --- "Fattest Cat," by Brian Ross, ABC news, 7-28-04