CBS News source says papers fake - Former Guard commander says documents were not shown to him

Houston Chronicle ^ | September 12, 2004 | New York Times

[N. Beaujon]

I still keep coming back to the point that the PO Box is 34567. Couldn't they have come up with something more original? Was that really the PO? Hasnt anyone checked out whether that WAS the actual PO used for the TANG at that time. By the way, since when do military services use PO's and not APO's and/or the like? But I digress. This should be a relatively easy fact to check out.

1) Is this PO on any actual "known" docs (e.g. docs KNOWN to be authentic) and
2)If not (that's awful enough) but are the other Letterheads on those TANG docs as perfectly centered as the one from CBS?
This bothers me, too. A typewriter (e.g. a person who was type- writing) would have done an awaful lot of math to produce that result. So there should have been pre-printed letterhead that ALL docs were written on and, if so, all TANG docs at the time should match up.

[patriciaruth]

CBS made copies of their copies to put on the air and on net, and those copies redacted the address to try to show they respect privacy of whoever lives there now, and underlined things they want to stick in viewers minds.

But the "original" copies that they had were what they faxed to the White House, which put them all on a pdf file and sent it to all the news outlets.

Thus the other news media have copies without DEMCBS talking points superimposed.

[snooker]

I have never seen a slow motion train wreck before. This is fun to watch.

[patriciaruth]

I don't understand where CBS got memos from Killian's personal files. Where would his personal files have been except with his family

Nobody knows how to spell anymore. Perhaps the originator of the memos claimed they came from his personnel file, not his personal file.

The staffer who didn't know a typewriter expert from a handwriting expert may not know the difference between personnel and personal.

[Cboldt]

Is that right? USA Today has had six memos in pdf all along? I'm really curious why their "text" reference in the original article only includes the text of the 4 memos. Why did they leave out the text of the other 2? Wierd.

CBS had 6 right along. CBS sent all 6 to the WH, and the WH forwarded them to all the media.

The text of 4 is relevant, because those 4 are the ones that CBS asserts are genuine in a broadcast, and subsequent affirmation of authenticity. CBS chose, for whatever reason, to not use the other 2. Sort of like having reams of documents, and finding one that tells the story. No big deal, unless one is digging for inconsistencies in the bigger picture.

[Cboldt]

Was that really the PO?

Could have been. Here is a document from an earlier Bush release, it recites PO Box 34567 as an address for the 111st FIS ...

http://www.cis.net/~coldfeet/doc7.gif <-- See for yourself

[mwl1]

Agree with everything on this thread, but why do good people like Hodges -- especially those with military experience -- give anyone at CBS or CNN the time of day????

Hasn't anyone in this country learned that these bastards are not to be trusted?

[Timeout]

Still seems fishy to me. I'd be surprised that even CBS would put their own marks on documents they wanted to broadcast, especially if they had already sent out unmarked copies to the WH or other outlets.

Are you sure USAT had all 6 memos on their pdf files from the beginning of this story? Again, their "text" file only provides text for the four memos used by CBS.

Hate to beat this to death, but it something doesn't smell right about these "new" memos.

[Timeout]

OK. I've got it. Thanks.

[Sal]

Would not all the personal effects of a deceased person have been given to the family?

No, I think quite a lot of people send their personal effects to the DNC for safe keeping. I suspect we'll see more such "effects" from the DNC/CBS axis in, oh say, October. And probably from many diverse (but very DEAD) prominent individuals.

[glasseye]

"CBS News has stood by its reporting, saying it obtained the documents through a reliable source"

If you are SeeBS who would be such a RELIABLE source?

DNC?

Klinton?

Kerry?

[patriciaruth]

They didn't mark up their "documents"; they marked copies of their "documents", as they have broadcast rules from their lawyers about showing an address, etc.

Their "documents" are copier copies purporting to be copies of the original memo, but are really copier copies of the fakes.

I have only someone else's word for it that when the White House got the faxes of the copies from CBS, they put them all on one file so the 2 worst of the forgeries were preserved with the 4 best that were broadcast.

[N. Beaujon]

Are these people really awake and functioning? What evidentiary procedures would they like to see applied in a lawsuit, where their fitness to own station licenses was being challenged?

Good point and it might be a good time for the FCC to question their fitness to own a license. After Nipplegate, Howard Stern, Dan Rathergate, etc, etc (all Viacom/CBS/Infinity, same company) maybe someone else is more fit to own the valuable real estate that are the ONLY 3 PUBLIC NETWORKS AVAILABLE.

What do you think? This isnt cable, folks. Has CBS squandered it's public trust? That is, inter alia, the standard. How about an investigation. They want to use OUR public airwaves, the license granted to them for the BENEFIT of the public to advance their self interested political agenda? I say, they've lost their right to own that property.

Time for the FCC to launch an investigation. "What did you know Dan Rather, and when did you know it?"

[mvpel]

Also Ronin owes FreeRepublic $100 because he bet me and another FReeper $50 each that Dan would resign by now.

Ronin should have read Bias, by Bernie Goldberg, befor making that bet. If he had, he'd know that Dan Ra^ther is far, far too arrogant to immediately resign over something like this. He'll spend the next few months trying to crush anyone who questions him on this issue.

But along the way I think he also became cynical and suspicious of any criticism. "Dan Rather can't distinguish between mainstream, legitimate criticism and criticism coming from extremists. It's all the same to him," is what Heyward told me after my op-ed came out.

And after the dark days of Richard Nixon, when Dan was constantly under siege, I believe he started seeing even well-meaning critics as enemies. Anyone who said there was a liberal bias on our news broadcasts was an extremist, practically by definition, as far as Dan was concerned. Every critic was a Richard Nixon lining Dan up in his sights. I think a little of Nixon's paranoia rubbed off on Dan.

This character trait, observed in Chapter 15 of Bias two years ago, is precisely what made it utterly impossible for Ra^ther to listen to the people in his own organization who questioned the authenticity of these documents, and what makes it utterly impossible for Ra^ther to back down now.

[N. Beaujon]

I AM WITH YOU. SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THAT "LINK". FREEPERS DO NOT RUN WITH ANY INFORMATION BASED ON THOSE NEW DOCUMENTS. SOMETHING WRONG.

Great detectuve work, Timeout. I saw it too and my first reaction was to check the url. Usually a "faked/forged?" url has an @ symbol in it but that was back in the old days. Once people were onto that I dont know if/how they changed the methods of doing it. But it used to be fairly easy for nefarious parties to do.

Someone might want to alert Freep patrol to check out the authenticy of this new addition. One thing WE dont want is to have our credibility or legitimacy challenged.

Freeps and bloggers should not run with this until it is thoroughly checked out.

[Chaguito]

Something that strikes me in all this is that the prevaricatora of the press are getting what they deserve as they try to manipulate military personnel.

It seems these folks don't like to feel manipulated. And they tend to not mince words. I like it - I like it a lot.

[cynicom]

The rest of the country sees CBS standing in manure up to their knees and they continue to say they smell nothing.

[Timeout]

It would be most helpful if SOMEONE could say whether all 6 memos were on the USAT site from the beginning.

So far, I have not been convinced they were. If you go to the "text" file on USAT, it says, "Here are the texts of FOUR memos indicating...". Supposedly, they posted pdf files at the same time which had SIX memos. The text file was posted at 9:45 am on Thursday...long before the media was questioning the authenticity of CBS's docs. I'm just not sure I believe that USAT would have cut down their text illustration merely to match what CBS had reported the night before.

This just doesn't add up.

[federal]

It would be interesting to see a RATher picture with President Bush (if one exists). I'll bet he is sour faced.


Put them side by side with a caption like.


"Enough Said"

[Col Freeper]

We need to get back to Kerry's fraudulent early buggout, Silver Star Citation Forgeries, aiding the enemy and planning the assasination of US Senators.

Not to worry. FR can fight wars on many, many fronts. Besides, our allies, the Swifties, are sinking the Kerry campaign's "attack boats" faster than the Kerryites can launch them.