Posted on 09/12/2004 9:40:14 PM PDT by tbird5
Beslan and 9/11 are leading millions of Muslims to search their souls. Even clerics now question the harshest traditional laws and look for a more humane interpretation of their faith.
The Muslim world is changing. Three years after the atrocity of 9/11, it may be in the early stages of a reformation, albeit with a small "r". From Morocco to Indonesia, people are trying to develop a more contemporary and humane interpretation of Islam, and some countries are undergoing major transformations.
Much of the attention is focused on reformulating the sharia, the centuries-old body of Islamic law deeply embedded in a medieval psychology. The sharia is state law in many Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan and the Sudan. For many conservative and radical Muslims, the sharia is Islam: it cannot be changed, and must be imposed in exactly the shape it was first formulated in the ninth century. Since 9/11, there has been a seismic shift in this perception. More and more Muslims now perceive Islamic law to be dangerously obsolete. And these include the ulema, the religious scholars and clerics, who have a tremendous hold on the minds of the Muslim masses.
(Excerpt) Read more at newstatesman.com ...
It's pretty difficult to develop a "humane interpretation" of "..kill them (non-moslems) wherever you find them!" (Sura 9:5)
The problem is not one of interpretation, it is one of ESSENCE!
Religions can and do change.
Islam will too. No choice. It must or perish.
It's too late for this one. The risk of nuclear or biological terror is too great to permit it the conditions for a peaceful reformation. A few apostates getting more press does not a reformation make.
Wait. there is one possible change that would improve islam: if all its adherents assume room temperature.
That would be surprising information to a lot of countries that are Islamic.
Perhaps it does. But since the alternatives to change in Islam are either eternal conflict or extermination, I'm very much in favor of internal reform.
Or 10,000 degrees.
There are a lot of things common to the average Westerner which would be 'surprising information' to Islamic countries... like the use of toilet paper or the fact that there are Americans in Baghdad.
LOL! Just goes to show that all countries have narrow minded people with no clue, even this enlighted one.
Well, that's ok, we accept you for who you are ;)
They may not know how to use TP but sure know an AK.
Sorry, you're going to have to accept who, or what, you are before you will ever have a clue about anyone else.
Well, I was giving you a graceful way out, but seeing as you're not taking it, what makes you the expert on what Islamic countries think?
I think if I were to need consultation on anything dealing with grace it wouldn't be from you. Please, do not stop demonstrating your ignorance on my behalf. I find it far too amusing.
/john
BWAHAHA!!
[Damn good thing these PC CINOs weren't in charge in WWII or we'd all be speaking German]
Nazis civilians were just as guilty as the guys who pulled the trigger. So it is w islamism. Islam is NO religion. It is a cult.
it will perish.
along with the old gods of norse mythology and the baals of old... only the oddballs and the curious still pray to Odin.
Ashtarthe may be the romantic goddess of literature and movies betimes, but ultimately, nobody really believes that crap.
Of course there are raelians, who believe in wierd stuff, just like the hale-bopp folks... but those are not really believed by rational majorities of any consequence.
Dead religions, kook religions and religious fundamentalists of all stripes are passing off the scene.
Fundamentalist Islam is clearly in it's death throes.
Unfortunately, the world's weapons that may fall into it's hands are so vast now, that their death throes may kill a billion or two of us in the long run...
I thought so. You have no expertise and have decided your opinion on pure superstition.
You might be surprised what you find out when you actually dig into facts.
Most Muslims worldwide - a vast majority - not only want to fight this war but have a religious conviction that they will win. The occasional Western-assimilated 'reform' Muslim does not change this.
I don't know... extermination has a certain certainty to it. Internal reform is dua, until they are strong enough to overcome you.
The more I have to deal with islamofacists, the better the .44 Standard Cartridge looks.
/john
LOL! You're speaking to yourself now? You should add ignorance in there with superstition...it permeates your views.
I will add that you cannot change that which is born from hate/evil. Musims will smile at you while waiting for your guard to drop and then decapitate you. A religion of peace? and kerry was not a traitor to our country.(RIGHT)
Chief are you still on active duty?
AFE: Muhammadanism Sucks
Restorer: Perhaps it does. But since the alternatives to change in Islam are either eternal conflict or extermination, I'm very much in favor of internal reform.
***
Your position is noted.
I hope it doesn't take more than a few months and 3,000 people.
We can afford to lose another 3,000 innocent Americans in horrifying and disgusting way, right?
Or, what is a number acceptable to you before the SHEER IMPOSSIBILITY OF MODERATES STOPPING THIS INSANITY?
My buddy says 1 more is too many, and another says it could cost us hundreds of thousands or millions of innocent neighbors, family and friends.
Where do you fall? How many more dead at the hands of this Death Cult is acceptable to you?
I also will remind everyone that in most descriptions of the Sept. 11th, 2001 murderers, they all were described as your 'Average Muhammadan Nextdoor' by someone somewhere...
Your position is also noted.
However, merely saying that you won't accept another 9/11 is not much help.
Exactly what would you do to prevent it from occurring?
There is an awful lot of loose talk floating around about "killing them all," and I believe we need to think through the implications of such talk. Are we really willing to kill 250 million Arabs, including their women and children? Do we really want the US to go down as by far the greatest mass murderers in history? The Nazis only killed about 12 million innocents, the Commies about 100 million.
We're talking 250M Arabs and somewhere around a billion Muslims in total.
I'm certainly not willing to "kill them all." Are you?
See #28.
How many are you willing to kill?
I'm perfectly willing to kill all Islamofascists and those who support them.
I'm not willing to kill 250M to 1000M people, depending on whether you define the enemy as "Arabs" or "Muslims."
I'm for stripping Muhammadanism of it's 'religion' tag and call it what a is, a subversive terrorist movement.
I'm for internment of American Muhammadans and sending foreigner Muhammadans overseas.
I'm for securing America's borders - thousands of Muhammadans have possibly slipped in illegally. Could be tens of thousands.
I'm for crushing every government that uses Muhammadanism as it's tool to war with and destabilise through terror.
I'm for the mosques' symbols being destroyed and converting their use to community outreach.
And anywhere in the world that we can cordone off the remaining Muhammadans from damaging anyone else, go for it.
That's part of my plan...for starters and without self-analysis.
Re-retired after recall following 9/11.
Get a new writer, try a new line. Yours were tiring 1,000 efforts ago...Muhammadan sympathizer.
Far from it, but it seems that all religions have their share of ignorant fools...which you are living proof of.
I don't believe in 'religion'. And you are starting to sound like a Muhammadan symp.
The best difference is you are totally harmless to everyone but yourself.
Yes, religions do change. Often for the better. I think the bigger question is: "Does Islam want to change?"
Until then, regardless of how large or small it's terrorist arm is considered to be, it is a dead issue. And any change will require dropping their terrorist arms and require more pressure from their enablers, like our own lefties and the French leadership.
If history is any indication, No. Fascism, under any banner, must be put down by force. Only then, can the civilized factions emerge.
A confrontation is inevitable. Only one will prevail.
That's too simplistic. That's like saying until no one who identifies themselves as a Christian opposed abortion then all Christians are heathen.
Islam is spread over many diverse nations, sects and societies just like Christianity is. And just like Christianity, there are the devout and those who pay lip service, just like Catholics who vote for pro-abortion candidates.
Religions used to change societies but today it's more often the reverse, societies change religion (religion adapts to society to perserve itself...again, the Catholic Church in America is a good example).
"There are a lot of things common to the average Westerner which would be 'surprising information' to Islamic countries... like the use of toilet paper"
Are you sure about the toilet paper?....I thought they had Frenchmen to lick their butts.
"I'm certainly not willing to "kill them all." Are you?"
Well, 10% of the 1.5 billion Muslims IDENTIFY themselves as Islamists. The remaining 90% are their support group. So at a minimum, 150 million will need to be killed. The problem with a cancer like Islam is that it will grow back if you don't eliminate the source: ISLAM ITSELF!
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