Posted on 09/12/2004 10:51:05 PM PDT by Richard-SIA
Here are the bills we need to push hard in the next session of congress!
H.R. 153 covers most of the worst abuses of our RKBA, but some of the others certainly need our support as well. There were several other good bills introduced in this session, but ALL of them die in committee this week.
I got these of the "Thomas" site, it only took a couple of minutes.
Let's put the whole idea of "gun control" into the history books!
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Second Amendment Protection Act of 2003 (Introduced in House)
HR 153 IH
108th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 153
To restore the second amendment rights of all Americans.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
January 7, 2003
Mr. PAUL introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary
A BILL
To restore the second amendment rights of all Americans.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Second Amendment Protection Act of 2003'.
SEC. 2. REPEAL OF FEDERAL HARASSMENT PERIOD.
Public Law 103-159 is hereby replaced, and any provisions of law amended or repealed by such Act are restored or revived as if such Act had not been enacted.
SEC. 3. REPEAL OF UNCONSTITUTIONAL GUN BAN.
Title XI of Public Law 103-322 is hereby repealed, and any provisions of law amended or repealed by such title are restored or revived as if such title had not been enacted.
SEC. 4. REPEAL OF UNCONSTITUTIONAL DISTINCTION.
(a) Section 201 of title 11 of Public Law 90-618 is amended by striking `which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes,' and `which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.'
(b) Public Law 90-351, as amended, is amended as follows:
(1) In section 902, strike `which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes,' `which the owner intends to use solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes,' `a projectile which the Secretary finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes,' `devoted to the collection, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms in the community,' `determined by the Secretary of the Treasury to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes and,' `(A) determined by the Secretary to be generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes, or determined by the Department of Defense to be a type of firearm normally classified as a war souvenir, and (B),' `and is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes,' and `provided that such handguns are generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes,'.
(2) Strike `lawful sporting purposes' and insert in lieu thereof `lawful purposes'.
SEC. 5. EFFECTIVE DATE.
The provisions of this Act shall take effect immediately upon enactment.
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Veterans' Heritage Firearms Act of 2004 (Introduced in House)
HR 3807 IH
108th CONGRESS
2d Session
H. R. 3807
To provide an amnesty period during which veterans and their family members can register certain firearms in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record, and for other purposes.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
February 11, 2004
Mr. GIBBONS (for himself, Mr. CANNON, Mr. HUNTER, Mr. LEWIS of California, Mr. SESSIONS, Mr. TAYLOR of Mississippi, Mr. MOLLOHAN, Mr. CUNNINGHAM, Mrs. EMERSON, Mr. ISSA, Mr. OTTER, Mrs. MUSGRAVE, Mr. KING of Iowa, Mr. FEENEY, Mr. BURTON of Indiana, Mr. HALL, Mr. DOOLITTLE, Mr. BARRETT of South Carolina, Mr. CALVERT, Mr. BACHUS, Mr. BOOZMAN, Mr. BISHOP of Utah, Mr. CRANE, Mr. BARTLETT of Maryland, Mr. DUNCAN, Mr. FRANKS of Arizona, Mr. HOSTETTLER, Mr. DEMINT, Mr. HERGER, Mr. JONES of North Carolina, Mr. PENCE, Mr. LEWIS of Kentucky, Mr. WILSON of South Carolina, Mr. AKIN, Mr. WHITFIELD, Mr. PEARCE, Mr. CULBERSON, Mr. BAKER, Mr. PETERSON of Minnesota, Mr. TERRY, Mr. SCHROCK, Mr. SHIMKUS, Mr. TIBERI, Mr. GOODE, Mr. MCCOTTER, Mr. SIMPSON, Mr. TANCREDO, Mr. KENNEDY of Minnesota, Mr. ROGERS of Alabama, Mr. HEFLEY, Mr. MILLER of Florida, Mr. MANZULLO, and Mr. SHUSTER) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary, and in addition to the Committee on Ways and Means, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned
A BILL
To provide an amnesty period during which veterans and their family members can register certain firearms in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record, and for other purposes.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Veterans' Heritage Firearms Act of 2004'.
SEC. 2. AMNESTY PERIOD FOR VETERANS TO REGISTER QUALIFYING FIREARMS.
(a) Registration- Subject to such regulations as the Attorney General may prescribe, the applicable veteran or a member of such a veteran's family, who owns and possesses a qualifying firearm, may register such firearm in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (described in section 5841 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986) during the amnesty period.
(b) Qualifying Firearm-
(1) In general- For purposes of this section, the term `qualifying firearm' means any firearm which was acquired--
(A) before October 31, 1968; and
(B) by a veteran, while such veteran was a member of the Armed Forces and was stationed outside the continental United States.
(2) Presumption of validity- With respect to any firearm, in the absence of clear and convincing evidence to the contrary the Attorney General shall accept as true and accurate any affidavit, document, or other evidence submitted by an individual to establish that such firearm meets the requirements of paragraph (1).
(c) Hearings- If the Attorney General determines that any individual may not register a firearm under subsection (a) during the amnesty period, the Attorney General, upon the request of such individual, shall--
(1) provide such individual any evidence on which the Attorney General's decision is based; and
(2) promptly hold a hearing to review such determination.
(d) Limited Immunity-
(1) CRIMINAL LIABILITY UNDER TITLE 18- Any individual who registers a firearm under subsection (a)--
(A) shall be treated, for purposes of subsections (a)(3), (o), (v), and (w) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as having lawfully acquired and possessed the firearm before the date of the enactment of chapter 44 of such title and each of such chapter's provisions; and
(B) shall not be liable under chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, for any violation of such chapter which--
(i) is based solely on such individual's ownership, possession, transportation, importation, or alteration of such firearm; and
(ii) occurred before or concurrent with such registration.
(2) Criminal liability under internal revenue code- Except as provided in paragraph (3), any individual who registers a firearm under subsection (a) shall not be liable under chapter 53 or 75 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 for any violation of such chapters which relates to such firearm and which occurred before or concurrent with such registration.
(3) Transfer tax liability- Paragraph (2) shall not affect the liability of any individual for any transfer tax imposed under section 5811 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986.
(4) Attempts to register- In the case of an applicable veteran or a member of such a veteran's family who attempts to register a qualifying firearm in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record at a time other than during the amnesty period, paragraphs (1), (2), and (3) shall apply with respect to such individual if such individual surrenders such firearm to a law enforcement agency not later than 30 days after notification by the Attorney General of potential criminal liability for continued possession of the firearm.
(e) Forfeiture- Any firearm registered under subsection (a) shall not be subject to seizure or forfeiture under chapter 53 or 75 of the Internal Revenue Code or chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, for any violation of such chapters which relates to such firearm and which occurred before or concurrent with such registration.
(f) Notice; Forms; Mailbox Rule-
(1) Notice of amnesty period- The Attorney General shall provide clear printed notices providing information regarding the amnesty period and registering a firearm during such period. To the extent feasible, the Attorney General shall ensure that such notices are posted in post offices, law enforcement buildings, buildings of the Department of Veterans Affairs, and in the businesses of licensed firearms dealers.
(2) Forms- The Attorney General shall make available any forms necessary for registering a firearm in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record. To the extent feasible, the Attorney General shall make such forms available in the locations referred to in paragraph (1) and through the website for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.
(3) Mailbox rule- For purposes of this section, the Attorney General shall treat any form that is postmarked during the amnesty period as received during the amnesty period.
(g) Definitions- For purposes of this section:
(1) Amnesty period- The term `amnesty period' means the 90-day period beginning on the date that is 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act.
(2) Firearm- The term `firearm' has the meaning given such term in section 5845 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, except that such term does not include--
(A) any device described in subsection (f)(1) of such section; or
(B) any combination of parts--
(i) designed or intended for use in converting any device into a device described in subparagraph (A); or
(ii) from which a device described in subparagraph (A) may be readily assembled.
(3) Applicable veteran- With respect to any firearm, the term `applicable veteran' means the veteran described in subsection (b)(1)(B).
(4) Veteran- The term `veteran' has the meaning given such term in section 101(2) of title 38, United States Code.
(5) Family- The term `family' means, with respect to a veteran, the grandparents of such veteran, the grandparents of such veteran's spouse, the lineal descendants of such grandparents, and any spouse of such a lineal descendant. A spouse of an individual who is legally separated from such individual under a decree of divorce or separate maintenance shall be treated as such individual's spouse for purposes of this paragraph. Individuals related by the half blood or by legal adoption shall be treated as if they were related by the whole blood for purposes of this paragraph.
(6) Continental united states- The term `continental United States' means the several States and the District of Columbia, but does not include Alaska or Hawaii.
SEC. 3. TRANSFER OF FIREARMS TO MUSEUMS.
(a) Transfer of Forfeited Firearms to Museums-
(1) In general- The Attorney General shall transfer each firearm which has been forfeited to the United States to the first qualified museum that submits a request for such firearm in such form and manner as the Attorney General may specify.
(2) Destruction of forfeited firearms prohibited- The Attorney General shall not destroy any firearm which has been forfeited to the United States until the end of the 5-year period beginning on the date of such forfeiture.
(3) Catalogue of firearms- With respect to each firearm which is available to be transferred to a museum under paragraph (1), the Attorney General shall, not later than 60 days after the forfeiture of such firearm, publish information which identifies such firearm (including a picture) on the web page of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives. Such information shall be available to the public without cost and without restriction.
(4) Registration of firearms- Any firearm transferred under paragraph (1) to a qualified museum shall be registered to the transferee in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (described in section 5841 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986).
(5) Firearm- For purposes of this subsection, the term `firearm' means any firearm (as defined in section 2(g)(2)) which is treated as a curio or relic under chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code.
(6) Qualified museum- For purposes of this subsection, the term `qualified museum' means--
(A) any museum owned or operated by a unit of Federal, State, or local government; and
(B) any museum which--
(i) is open to the public;
(ii) is incorporated as not-for-profit corporation under applicable state law;
(iii) may possess a firearm in the collection of the museum under the laws of the State in which the collection of the museum is displayed;
(iv) holds a license under chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, as a collector of curios or relics; and
(v) certifies to the Attorney General that--
(I) the museum is not engaged in the trade or business of buying or selling firearms,
(II) with respect to the transfer of any firearm under paragraph (1), the museum is not requesting the transfer of such firearm for purpose of sale, and
(III) the museum shall, not later than 90 days after the date on which such museum ceases operations, file an application pursuant to chapter 53 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to transfer any machinegun transferred to the museum under paragraph (1) to an entity or person who may lawfully possess such machinegun under section 922(o) of title 18, United States Code, or abandon such machinegun to Federal, State, or local law enforcement authorities.
(b) Transfer of Machineguns to Museums- Section 922(o)(2) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--
(1) in subparagraph (A), by striking `or' at the end;
(2) by redesignating subparagraph (B) as subparagraph (C); and
(3) by inserting after subparagraph (A) the following new subparagraph:
`(B) a transfer to or by, or possession by, a museum which is open to the public and incorporated as a not-for-profit corporation under applicable State law; or'.
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States' Rights and Second and Tenth Amendment Restoration Act of 2003 (Introduced in House)
HR 276 IH
108th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 276
To repeal section 658 of Public Law 104-208, commonly referred to as the Lautenberg amendment .
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
January 8, 2003
Mr. GOODE (for himself, Mr. JONES of North Carolina, and Mr. PAUL) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary
A BILL
To repeal section 658 of Public Law 104-208, commonly referred to as the Lautenberg amendment .
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `States' Rights and Second and Tenth Amendment Restoration Act of 2003'.
SEC. 2. FINDINGS AND PURPOSE.
(a) CONGRESSIONAL FINDINGS:
(1) Domestic Violence remains a very serious problem in the United States. It is a dangerous crime and should be punished as such, including, where appropriate, as a felony.
(2) Many States have classified Domestic Violence crimes as misdemeanors, others as felonies. States are the proper authority, rather than the Federal Government, to classify Domestic Violence offenses.
(3) Where appropriate, States should classify Domestic Violence offenses as a felony.
(4) Section 658 of Public Law 104-208, commonly referred to as the Lautenberg amendment , oversteps Federal authority, violating States' rights, because no nexus has been shown to exist between Domestic Violence and interstate commerce.
(5) The Lautenberg amendment does not deal with a subject delegated to Congress under article I, section 8 of the Constitution of the United States and is therefore unconstitutional under the tenth amendment to the Constitution, as interpreted by United States v. Lopez.
(6) The Lautenberg amendment oversteps Congress's power to regulate commerce as delineated by the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution.
(7) Some of the strictest gun control laws are found in cities where the number of incidents of guns being used in violent crimes is the highest. Therefore, the Lautenberg amendment does not reduce incidents of domestic violence.
(8) State and Federal judges already have the power to deny persons convicted of misdemeanors the right to possess firearms as a condition of probation or parole.
(9) The Lautenberg amendment is an unfunded Federal mandate because States are liable for the costs of monitoring those citizens who have been banned for life from owning a firearm. Many times this lifetime ban is a result of a misdemeanor, not a felony.
(10) Section 658 of the Treasury-Postal portion of Public Law 104-208 violates all notions of constitutional due process and constitutes an ex post facto law because it imposes a criminal penalty on crimes which were not subject to that penalty at the time of the Act.
(11) Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year. Of these self-defense cases, as many as 200,000 are by women defending themselves against sexual assault.
(12) Section 658 of the Treasury-Postal portion of Public Law 104-208 will, if allowed to stand, result in the disarming of millions of citizens, including women, on account of misdemeanor offenses which, in many cases, were committed long before the effective date of that Act.
(13) Section 658 of the Treasury-Postal portion of Public Law 104-208 will, in many cases, disarm battered women who need access to firearms in order to protect themselves from their battering spouses as well as from common criminals.
(14) Section 658 of the Treasury-Postal portion of Public Law 104-208 will, if allowed to stand, impose a lifetime gun ban on persons who committed acts so minor that they were not even entitled to a jury trial prior to conviction.
(15) Section 658 of the Treasury-Postal portion of Public Law 104-208, will, if allowed to stand, result in the disarming and dismissal of a significant number of law enforcement officers and American servicemen, on account of misdemeanors, which in many cases, were committed long before the effective date of that Act.
(16) Section 658 of the Treasury-Postal portion of Public Law 104-208 ignores the real problem surrounding domestic violence in that truly violent offenders are allowed to plea-bargain down to misdemeanors.
(b) PURPOSE- It is the purpose of this Act to restore States' rights, the tenth amendment , and second amendment freedoms.
SEC. 3. REPEALER.
Section 658 of the Treasury-Postal portion of Public Law 104-208 is repealed and is null and void as if it had not been enacted, and all provisions of law amended by such section are restored as if section 658 had not been enacted.
SEC. 4. EFFECTIVE DATE.
This Act shall take effect as if included in the Treasury-Postal portion of Public Law 104-208. Any liability, penalty, or forfeiture incurred by any person by reason of the application of any amendment made by section 658 of the Treasury-Postal portion of Public Law 104-208 is hereby extinguished, and any action or prosecution for the enforcement of any such liability, penalty, or forfeiture shall not be sustained.
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Expressing the sense of Congress with respect to the Second Amendment. (Introduced in House)
HCON 179 IH
108th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. CON. RES. 179
Expressing the sense of Congress with respect to the Second Amendment .
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
May 14, 2003
Mr. JOHN (for himself and Mr. STEARNS) submitted the following concurrent resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary
CONCURRENT RESOLUTION
Expressing the sense of Congress with respect to the Second Amendment .
Whereas our forefathers developed a Bill of Rights to protect the rights of individuals;
Whereas the right to bear arms is a cornerstone of our individual freedoms guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution;
Whereas gun ownership is an integral part of our free society today; and
Whereas in the ruling of 5 December 2002, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit reaffirmed the Circuit Court's prior ruling in Hickman v. Block, 81 F. 3rd 98 (Ninth Cir. 1996) that the Second Amendment does not confer an individual right to own or possess arms: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring), That it is the sense of the Congress that the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States guarantees individuals the right to bear arms.
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Right to Keep and Bear Arms Act of 2003 (Introduced in House)
HR 3125 IH
108th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 3125
To protect the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
September 17, 2003
Mr. PAUL (for himself, Mr. BARRETT of South Carolina, Mr. BARTLETT of Maryland, Mr. DUNCAN, Mr. GOODE, Mr. FRANKS of Arizona, Mr. SESSIONS, Mr. FEENEY, Mr. MILLER of Florida, Mr. OTTER, and Mr. NORWOOD) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on International Relations
A BILL
To protect the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Right to Keep and Bear Arms Act of 2003'.
SEC. 2. FINDINGS.
Congress finds that--
(1) over the past decade, the United Nations has demonstrated a consistent animus to the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and to the right to keep and bear arms;
(2) in June, 2003, the United Nations sponsored a `Week of Action Against Small Arms';
(3) French President Jacques Chirac and the socialist president of Brazil, Luiz Lula da Silva, both advocate the imposition of a United Nations tax on firearms for various utopian purposes;
(4) 2,000,000 largely unarmed people are killed yearly by oppressive genocidal governments throughout the world; and
(5) ironically, at the same time the United Nations was working to prohibit Americans from exercising their Second Amendment rights to defend themselves, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms was called to investigate the illegal possession of submachine guns by bodyguards to Secretary General of the United Nations Kofi Annan.
SEC. 3. RESTRICTION ON FUNDS.
No funds appropriated pursuant to any provision of law may be used for the promotion of any agreement, treaty, conference, document, or other action by the United Nations, or any instrumentality thereof, which advocates the taxation of firearms or any other measure which would constitute any abrogation of rights under the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution.
SEC. 4. SENSE OF CONGRESS.
It is the sense of the Congress that proposals to tax or otherwise limit rights under the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution are reprehensible and deserving of condemnation.
SEC. 5. DEFINITION.
For purposes of this Act, the term `promotion' means any action undertaken by any official of the United States Government to advance the adoption, by the United States or any other country, of any agreement or treaty referred to in section 3, or to support any conference, document, or other action referred to in section 3, including, but not limited to, signing any such written instrument by the United States.
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Expressing the sense of the Congress with respect to the right of all Americans to keep and bear arms in defense of life or liberty and in the pursuit of all other legitimate endeavors. (Introduced in House)
HCON 251 IH
108th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. CON. RES. 251
Expressing the sense of the Congress with respect to the right of all Americans to keep and bear arms in defense of life or liberty and in the pursuit of all other legitimate endeavors.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
July 23, 2003
Mr. CRANE submitted the following concurrent resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary
CONCURRENT RESOLUTION
Expressing the sense of the Congress with respect to the right of all Americans to keep and bear arms in defense of life or liberty and in the pursuit of all other legitimate endeavors.
Whereas the second amendment to the Constitution of the United States conveys an inalienable right to all American citizens, such right occupying the same preferred position as all other constitutional rights;
Whereas unconscionable abridgements of the second amendment have been undertaken over the years by State and local governmental bodies, and have been allowed by the courts to stand uncorrected; and
Whereas the Framers of the second amendment to the Constitution and those who ratified the second amendment intended that the individual retain the right to keep and bear arms in order to protect life, liberty, and property and to protect our Nation from those who would attempt to destroy our freedom: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring), That it is the sense of the Congress that the Constitution provides that all individual citizens have the right to keep and bear arms, which right supersedes the power and authority of any government.
I have already found the sources:
An AK-47, a M-14, a Mr Nasty Streetsweeper, and many high-capacity magazines will be ordered today.
Grrrrr, new keyboard and fumbling fingers!
Title should read, "AW Ban is dead! Now let's recover MORE of our RKBA!
I've gotta get out of California.
Let freedom reign!
awwww, come on... can't I just celebrate for a little while before you remind me of the enormous task yet to undertake?
Slap some bacon on a biscuit, and saddle up. We're burnin' daylight.
awwww.... man.
Would be nice to get a SCOTUS ruling declaring the 2nd and individual right...rather than a collective one...
Ashcroft declared it so...but it never made it to court
imo
Cool, I think I'll pick one up today.
I mean, if was reported on TV, it must be true, right?
"Now let's recover MORE of our RKBA!"
I thought you were refering to the same idea I had: turning Michael Moore over to the RKBA people for an immediate verbal thrashing and public humiliation!
From what I gathered by listening to NPR, we can expect to see at least 20 police officers 50 children and 70 sweet little old ladies killed during the first hour after the ban sunsets by these "military style assault weapons". The latest poll show 112% of Americans want to keep the ban in place in fact the ONLY people that oppose the ban are Tom Delay and President Bush and a few inbred redneck racist, sexists, homophobes from down south. They went out of their way to declare that President Bush LIED and claimed he supported the ban just to get elected in 2000, according to NPR this "lie" is worse than anything Nixon, Clinton, or even Stalin ever did.
Juan Williams expects the country to turn en mass to Kerry and he should be leading 80% to 20% by the end of the week after America witnesses the carnage wrought by the ban expiring.
Actually, the above isn't much of an exaggeration... I wouldn't be surprised if they started an "assault weapon" murder countdown on the program
ignorant question - but maybe the smarter types could help me - Even though the federal ban is dead - arent those states who adopted it as thier own or a similar version still in effect ?
RKBA PING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
fox and friends, Uma etc., just the ban nds tonight, monday at midnight. She said it makes it leaga to Buy Uzi's ak47s and tec9s.
How can Fox be so IGNORANT. Machine guns were never covered by the AWB.
This can't be, Bush was going to take everyone's guns...
Or so the story went a few months ago anyway...
Many here were screaming they "couldn't vote for Bush" because of this.
The AWB is done, which is a good thing, but there really isn't the broad public support for that move.
The left got us into the mess we're in after 50 years of incrementalism. They used the incremental approach because the average American voter does not like or want change usually.
Perhaps next year another small step forward would be feasible. But not now.
What makes you think it's ignorance rather than a deliberate attempt to mislead?
Glad to be right (as always) :)
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