Skip to comments.Federal agents surround ranch in Douglas, Arizona(VIDEO!)
Posted on 09/16/2004 10:16:04 PM PDT by Conservative Firster
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First of all, which branch of the military did you serve in? Second of all, all of my "army asshole" friends who are still enlisted think Bush's plan is great.
Yep. I knew about 2 years ago, that something like this was going to go down.
I did not mention the fbi in this post, I have a few current comments regarding the fbi/batfe in other posts. Do not portray me as saying things I did NOT say.
Border Patrol is primarily supposed to interact with with foreigners, NOT Americans. If BP agents were nine feet tall cyclopes that could hear an illegally crossing mexican walking in sand at a thousand yards that would be ok by me.
I agree, We have camp Pendleton, in San Diego, place them at the border. WE guard borders all over the world, yet we don't give a care about our own.
These guys would get back to life work which is ranching. It is a pain in the a$$ for them to have to do this. They are for the most part law abiding citizens. Expecting this country to keep illegal entrants off of their lands.
The problem with all this that I, personally, have is that the group Ranch Rescue has been around for a long time. That the timing of this confrontation should roughly coincide with the sunset of the semi-automatic rifle ("assault weapons") ban raises an eyebrow for those of us who became sensitive (under the Clinton years) to grandstand confrontations with groups in "compounds" just as some piece of anti-gun legislation was being considered.
Horrific events occurred from Waco to Columbine, oddly with the appearance of being well timed to create bad press for all gunowners, not just criminals.
Many career people now in high places in the Nation's LEAs were emplaced under Clinton, and Clinton was one of the most anti-gun POTUSs ever.
Unfortunately, the multitude of citizens' groups which sprang up on the heels of Waco were branded by the Left as extremist, and groups like Morris Dees's SPLC and Mark Pittcavage's "Militia Watchdog" defined who was 'extremist' for LEAs at all levels.
Mostly, the groups are composed of people who feel they have cause to be scared because the actions of the Government make no sense.
There are folks with criminal records everywhere, and these groups have no immunity to that.
The militia watchdog site has been absorbed by the ADL, and their latest article on militias can be found here: Militias expanding again
Seeing that on their website makes me wonder, especially when the Dems would use the ploy of branding everyone from the NRA on out as 'domestic terrorists' to push their anti-gun agenda.
I can understand that. It happens a lot, some people are appreciative, most simply don't care and then you have the others...
Don't let them get under your skin.
No I'm not, obviously.
Do you see Bush doing anything about it? Or even promising to do anything about it, in order to earn votes? He think he can coast in, with approval to keep doing what he's doing. Which is virtually nothing, except spending hundreds of billions of dollars more each year.
Agreed. They are constrained by budget and manpower, and face a huge task
The beef here is not with the Border Patrol, but the FBI, who have earned a sullied reputation in confrontations past, bad/fabricated lab data, and investigations which appeared colored by partisan agendas.
BTW, thank your husband for us for his years of service guarding the Republic, and thank you for the years of waiting, wondering, and worrying.
LOL! I always enjoy watching your folks rush to judgement and outrage. It never fails to amuse.
Here's the difference between Bush and Clinton. Under Bush, they wait for the guy and nail him in a parking lot.
Under Clinton. They ignore such opportunities and wait until he goes back to the "compound" and end up with dead officers and quite a few bar-b-qued children.
Just another viewpoint.
For a different view of this group, visit: a different view
Once again, the people who are defining extremism are the same folks who defined extremism under Clinton.
Don't go elk hunting, then.
What??? This Homeland security bunch seems to have really lost sight of the objective! Where is Janet Reno?
It seems that our political elites have made the decision not only that they are going to allow our country to be stolen from us, but that they will preempt any attempt by the citizenry to protect itself, using various pretexts such as violating the rights of illegal invaders, forming and training as paramilitary groups, etc...We the people seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, if we stand by and do nothing, we lose our nation and the future of our children. On the other, if we organize to protect ourselves, we become outlaws. I would suppose that at some point the people are going to have to address the question, i.e., do they fear the government more, or the invaders (remembering that the invaders include ME Muslim young men from states known to sponsor terrorism)? As for voting for President Bush, why would one vote for a President when it is patently obvious that he is part and parcel of that betrayal? I am not advocating a vote for Kerry, who is worse if only in that he would take us along the road to hell by the most direct route, whereas the President is leading by the sceneic...
This has been in the making for almost 3 years and has nothing to do with "sunset of the semi-automatic rifle ("assault weapons") ban".
No, I only said I was holding my nose on this issue, the same as the other poster said.
Bush can do nothing about this issue, at least not in the run up to the election. The libs and the left would skewer him over it calling it a racist policy. The left will not touch the issue. Bush will not touch the issue.
Does that make it right? No. And I think you and I agree on that point. We also agree, I think, that the border should be controlled. My only disagreement with you was your response to the other poster, albeit a small disagreement. We are, after all, friends on the same side. FReepRegards!
For the most part you are correct, however there is no shortage of Americans out there actively smuggling narcotics, aliens and anything else to make a profit.
This entire episode could have been avoided if he would have just pulled over when requested to. The stop would probably have lasted less than 30 seconds. But guys like this always believe the law does not apply to them.
They're probably supplying water stations for the "migrants" and inviting them to Sunday dinner too. Someone should put up signs pointing to Crawford.
Thank you for that very informative post Joe.
It was very interesting and thought provoking.
Thanks again. I will definitely relay your thanks to him.
Your points about the FBI are well taken.
#166 - Good post.
Someone did here in Arizona...
This was across the highway from the Naco Border Patrol Station for months.
You were sick, already.
This man has not been convicted of pistol whipping anyone.
That's all in your head.
You take the word of a lying, thieving, criminal, border-jumping, illegal alien over that of a U.S. citizen?
You're "sick" alright.
You can think I'm sick. I think you could be a dangerous extremist with no sense of right and wrong.
Let's leave it at that.
Actually, I fully realize you probably are not emotionally capable of that, if your like minded friends here are any indication. I got hateful freep mail from them all night long.
So, I understand if you just can't control yourself and feel the need to further bash me.
'Migrants' rights'. How quaint.
Just another viewpoint.99.9% of the investigation of the Davidians was under George H. W. Bush in 1992; methinks that the real 'facts' of an issue matter less than good 'feelings' that promote a particular idealogy and take issue with the 'bogy man' popular at the time ...
Yeah, he is out of control. But the border problems demand this kind of response.
I blame it on Asa Hutchinson, for his absolute refusal to patrol the borders and enforce our laws.
They wouldn't have even been there...to get out of control if the people we pay to take care of this weren't selling us out. Adrenaline pumps...sh!t happens.
Looking at their page, I don't see a problem with what they are doing. Plus, when they scored big and took out people transporting dope...they didn't keep it to sell off or ingest.
Shows their integrity, and that they are people forced into these actions.
Nope. Read again.
According to the FBI, the agent was trying to serve an arrest warrant on Casey Nethercott of Douglas.
feds had this planned. Or so they thought. Pi$$ poor plan to execute a warrant in a uncontrolled area (grocery store parking lot) but it does clearly reveal the mentality of the feds. They don't have to answer to the law, they can hide behind badges, shoot whom they please and rewrite the circumstances in their "FD-302 - Form for Reporting Information That May Become Testimony" so they wind up with sloppy work that is flushed down a memory hole.
THEN they further demonstrate their disregard for the law in their attempt to search the Nethercott ranch without a warrant....
the feds report to the media the following...
On Thursday, Herskovits said, investigators conducted a search at Nethercott's residence in Douglas.
"We're just conducting a search," Herskovits said. "They (agents) said it's extremely quiet."
But to search the "compound" (just gotta toss some propaganda, don't they?) they assumed they were just gonna BS their way in......
"agents arrived, and using night-vision equipment, observed at least three more Ranch Rescue members concealed behind bushes and a car inside the compound. The agents decided to back off to defuse the situation and get a warrant.
What stopped the feds attempt to perform a warrant less search? Men with guns. Men with guns is what it took before the feds would follow the law.
Your statement "But guys like this always believe the law does not apply to them." seems to apply to the feds, not Nethercott. Nethercots actions resemble those of a reasonable person reacting to unreasonable circumstance. The actions of the feds resemble those of a bunch of thugs.
I don't know that we have enough information from each side to reach any conclusions.
But while I'm up, can I get you a glass of water? You seemed to have swallowed whole the entire government story without. Be sure that you don't choke on it.
Don't you know that some people can't handle the truth? ;-)
Well, I am as welcome as rain during a picnic with a lot of people who can't believe that I'm not voting for Bush. They are so scared of Al Quaeda that they buy every government intrusion that comes out of DC. They're shocked that I fear my own government more than I do terrorists.
All a terrorist can do is kill you in an attack. I don't believe that we will ever lose a war and be taken over.
However, our own government can enslave us and make criminals of us with all their laws.
Freedom and liberty are real. Safety is just a feeling. Why would anyone trade the former for the latter?
You seemed to have swallowed whole the entire government story without.
That should have read:
You seemed to have swallowed whole the entire government story without stopping.
It just seems that every time some piece of gun control legislation was being seriously considered during the Clinton administration there was a mass shooting or bombing. The anti-gun groups are doing what they can to muster for a renewed and intensified 'assault weapons ban', and use incidents such as this as poster children.
It is interesting to note that there has been relatively little of either (bombing/mass shooting--thankfully) since 9/11.
I do not claim to be privvy to operational details or timing regarding this group or any other, including the FBI.
It does seem that since the separation from Ranch Rescue things with this group are going overboard, but this is only part of the story.
I have read descriptions of large groups of invading illegals cutting through private property, trashing the place. And I have seen assertions that these groups include drug dealers, and that law enforcement is not effective in some areas at responding to complaints in a timely fashion. I can see where night vision equipment would be essential in trying to determine the composition of a group (adult males vs women and children), and whether or not the group is armed.
If my back yard were being invaded on a regular basis by large groups of people with the potential to be dangerous, I'd be sorely tempted to take what help I could get wherever I could get it.
Groups like the Arizona Guard can only exist to fill a vacumn, (sort of a neighborhood watch group). If there were no perceived need, the property owners would run them off themselves, and these guys would have to find something else to do.
If the main problem of border invasion is addressed, the vigilante style groups will go away.
How does a Border Agent know who is an American or not without I.D.ing the person or persons in a car or building near the border? Or someone just walking around?
I didn't look up your other post, I included the FBI because of their new role post 9/11.
If you can tell the difference between a Foreigner and an American near the Border WITHOUT running the person's name or checking ID, PLEASE share your secret! Thats a talent even Miss Cleo doesn't have!!
You can dish out the name-calling and personal attacks, but you can't take it. Some 'Texan' you are.
Out of control illegal and legal immigration, in this country, is the linch pin of all other Conservative issues.
It is the driving force causing all of the problems facing our Nation to spiral out of control and reach critical mass.
Overcrowding in communities and their associated schools,
-50% increase in Gang Crime-Nationlly-in the last 3 years,
-deterioration of critical infrastructure,
-air and water pollution,
-burgeoning social programs,
-our Nation's combined federal, state, local, corporate and personal debt is approaching $50 TRILLION DOLLARS!!! with no end in sight.
-44 million income tax return filers, last year alone, paid NO NET INCOME TAXES!!! They received full refunds and many of them received EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT CHECKS TOTALLING THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS from other U.S. Taxpayers.
This is why a discussion of out of control illegal and legal immigration can and should be woven into almost every thread here on Free Republic.
How can you be so blind as to not see this?
It should be, but..
Many conservatives are not going to chance puncturing the "housing bubble" and damage their wealth -- or political careers. "How I stopped worrying about ILLEGAL immigration and learned to love my equity."
I bet that is true. You see, "cheap" labor is just one "benefit" of all forms of unhindered, endless immigration -- including ILLEGAL immigration -- they all can purchase homes here.
Would you believe, it's what's keeping the real estate market going. This American Land Title Association article ("Foreign-born add market support from the ground up," by Steve Kropper) says
"Immigration is the key driver of primary housing demand in the United States and explains why home prices aren't headed toward a fall. The flood of immigration is untouched and continues unabated. Immigrants keep the housing market flush with first-time buyers, who come in at the bottom and support the market as they move up the housing ladder. Immigrants comprise roughly 11 percent of all resale home transactions."
Third time I've posted this and for the third time I ask everyone, Are there attributions that refute this?
Additnoal costs to our Republic (from Mexico alone, 1/2 of the total ILLEGAL immigration), e.g., EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT, are documented at
Also see, "Barriers to Latino Home Buying," LA Times 09/15/04 by Kathleen Hennessey
(see thread link, below)
For some unknown reason a couple of Freepers denied that ILLEGALS purchasing homes is covered in this article though it clearly is covered. I posted the excerpts from the article in the thread at
You mentioned name calling. For some strange reason we who mention these things about ILLEGAL immigration are sometimes called racists and bigots -- and promply denounced by some of those folks as America's "trailer park culture" -- and worse as you pointed out. Go figure.
This has nothing to do with the border invasion. It's about the idiots and their egos.
Just a thought, but is there some possibility that civillian people could be used in a surveillance capacity? It would be dicey duty, much like a recon assignment, with the purpose of identifying, tracking, and tipping off the officers to intervene, not engaging or confronting the invading illegals.
This would be more along the lines of a traditional 'Neighborhood Watch' group.
The use of civillian volunteers could give official agencies the ability to coordinate/regulate the actions of the volunteers (which effectively ties down all but the most loose cannons), while augmenting security forces.
It would also give the locals an outlet for the need to 'do something' without things getting out of hand.
The feelings of fear and helplessness otherwise will only lead to the formation of more (uncoordinated) patrol groups, and increase the potental for animosity between landowners and official agencies, a situation which benefits no one but the illegals.
Right now you have lemons. Make lemonade. Turn what could be a disadvantage into an advantage.
I could think of a few, but like you said, it would be dangerous. The drug smugglers and human smugglers have qualms at shooting folks, uniform or no uniform.
The locals have a definite terrain familiarity advantage: they know their own property, know the normal invasion routes (if by nothing else than the trash trails). They could be one helluvan asset. Small teams with an agent in charge, or agent/local teams could possibly provide armed officials to provide team security while using the locals' terrain familiarity as a force multiplier.
'Turf wars' and egos can go either way in this, but harnessing the willing local assets in a way which will reduce the negatives, (not to mention eliminating the chance confrontation between official and unofficial groups), could go a long way toward improving relations with the property owners and providing better border security.
I've never made any of the derogatory statements, about the Border Patrol, you've attributed to me.
Clearly, you are a Texas sized liar.
I, therefore, doubt you've received the 'hate' FReepmail you claim you've received.
You're all about making false accusations, but you can't back any of them up.
You're making all this nonsense up in your "sick", little mind.
At least your ex-husband could divorce you.
We're stuck with you until you decide to go haunt some other thread.
Actually I believe agents of King George coined the term around 1776.
He has firsthand knowledge of how illegal aliens are not only allowed to buy homes, but able to receive government assistance to make their purchases.
Of course, only a xenophobe would have a problem with this. ;^)
He tried to shake hands? He reached for the paper? He played "French Soldier" and raised his hands?
Heavily armed is not a reason to shoot anyone based on the second amendment. Seems there is a lot of excuses as the Famous But Incompetent Agency had no valid reason to shoot the man. I am sure they will concoct one, but the story will unravel, just like C"BS".
He tried to shake hands? He reached for the paper? He played "French Soldier" and raised his hands?Maybe option #4?
Reaching for a loaded firearm ...
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