Posted on 09/22/2004 12:54:03 PM PDT by areafiftyone
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry (news - web sites), citing the war in Iraq (news - web sites) and other trouble spots in the world, raised the possibility Wednesday that a military draft could be reinstated if voters re-elect President Bush (news - web sites).
Kerry said he would not bring back the draft and questioned how fairly it was administered in the past.
Answering a question about the draft that had been posed at a forum with voters, Kerry said: "If George Bush (news - web sites) were to be re-elected, given the way he has gone about this war and given his avoidance of responsibility in North Korea (news - web sites) and Iran and other places, is it possible? I can't tell you."
Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and other Pentagon (news - web sites) officials have been asked numerous times whether they thought a draft would be necessary to maintain force levels in Iraq. They have said consistently that they think it is neither necessary nor desirable, since today's military is built on volunteer service and professionalism.
His voice scratchy and breaking from a cold, Kerry called the president's proposal to give workers partly private Social Security (news - web sites) accounts a windfall for financial companies and one that will cut benefits for senior citizens.
"He's driving seniors right out of the middle class," Kerry said in a battleground state rich with voters keenly watching the candidates talk about two pillars of retirement, Social Security and Medicare.
"I will never privatize Social Security, ever," Kerry said, repeating promises not to raise the retirement age or cut benefits.
Kerry's two-day swing through Florida, which began Tuesday, follows deadly hurricanes that nearly halted polling and politicking in the state. Bush made his third campaign-season trip to Florida this week to assess damage caused by Hurricane Ivan. Kerry has been to the state that decided the 2000 election nine times this year.
Kerry opened the town hall-style meeting about government benefits by repeating his charges that the president is divorced from realities in Iraq and ignoring the manhunt for terrorists in Afghanistan (news - web sites). "Osama bin Forgotten," Kerry said.
Noting that the campaign Tuesday night neared Disney's "fantasy land" in Orlando, Fla., Kerry said: "The difference between George Bush and me is that I drove by it. He lives in it."
Returning to seniors' issues, Kerry said Bush made life harder for seniors with a Medicare drug benefit that doesn't let the government bargain for lower costs.
Kerry also cited a study by Austan Goolsbee, a University of Chicago business professor and informal adviser to the Kerry campaign, to say the president's Social Security proposal will cost seniors.
Bush favors allowing young workers to create voluntary personal savings accounts with some of the money they now pay into the Social Security system, a change he insists will not increase payroll taxes or change benefits for retirees or near retirees.
Goolsbee examined one model that proposes workers set aside a small percentage of their pay in private accounts as a method to adjust Social Security to a rapidly graying population, concluding that fees charged by financial companies could reap them hundreds of billions of dollars and eat 20 percent of the benefits in an account held by a worker making an average salary.
The Bush-Cheney campaign said the study makes assumptions based on policy decisions not yet made and contended that Kerry hasn't explained how he'd meet the challenges posed to Social Security by aging Baby Boomers.
"His record is one of voting for higher taxes on current retirees and ignoring the needs of future retirees," said Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt.
Kerry wants to bolster the retirement program by reducing the deficit and expanding the economy. Some experts say economic growth might be insufficient to cover future benefits because those benefits grow as wages increase.
AS Usual the Democrats attack and are always one attack ahead of the GOP
GOP never learns
Of course he always fails to mention that both the House and Senate bills proposing to reinstate the draft have been put forth by Democrats.
http://www.neoperspectives.com/draft.htm
The Draft Myth
(This excerpt has been posted because of the increasing frequency of the Democratic strategy to fear-monger over the draft. Democratic Vice Presidential candidate John Edwards and other Democratic surrogates have now joined the chorus of email forwards and rumors. Democratic groups have even begun running ads on MTV targeting young people (1)!)
On January 7th 2003, African American Representative Charles Rangel (NY) and 14 other Democrats, sponsored legislation attempting to bring back the draft. Rangel said in a statement:
I truly believe that decision-makers who support war would more readily feel the pain of conflict and appreciate the sacrifice of those on the front lines if their children were there, too. I don't make too much of the fact that only four members of the 107th Congress, which voted overwhelmingly in favor of war with Iraq, had children in the military. (70)
This false statement is elaborated on further down. On the same day, Democratic Senator Fritz Collins (SC) introduced similar legislation in the Senate. (2) Republican Senator Chuck Hagel offered similar misleading comments of support for a draft. (3) Both the Senate and House bills have no chance of passing and have not been taken up by their respective committees.
In any case, despite it's origin, fear of the draft has been pushed by media reports and Democrats for political gain, often portraying either the Bush administration or Republicans as secretly driving the proposals and legislation. (69) Secretary Rumsfeld and all administration officials and Republican congressional leaders have all said there is no intention or need to bring back the draft as all services are fulfilling recruiting quotas and reenlistment. Moreover Secretary Rumsfeld has stated:
"We have in the active force about 1.4 million people. And in the Guard and the Reserve and if you include the Individual Ready Reserve, the people who are not training in ready units, we go up to somewhere over 2.3 million people." (65)
"The force is stressed and we’re only sustaining 200,000-plus in the Central Command region out of a total of 2 million. So the question is, well, why is that?" (65)
"We’ve got probably 300,000 military people who are engaged in tasks that could every bit as easily be conducted by civilians." (65)
Rumsfeld explained that the unionized civil servants were so unmanageable that military personal often had to be used. He said these problems were being addressed.
Asked about the draft Rumsfeld replied:
"....goodness no, we’re perfectly capable of increasing the incentives and the inducements to attract people into the armed services." (65)
It is also notable that the military, due to cutbacks in the first Bush and Clinton years, is about one-third smaller than the one that existed just 12 years ago in the Gulf war. For example, the army was cut from 18 to 10 divisions. (73)
People in Palm Beach County are easily misled...
President Bush should call for an immediate end to registration for the Selective Service, just as Reagan did in the 1980 Campaign. He should then point out that members of the Congressional Black Democratic Caucus are the ones who have introduced legislation reviving the draft.
Counter lies with facts.
The military and veterans hate Kerry.
Young people will not enlist if Kerry is president.
Bingo!
The chances of a draft with Kerry in the White House is much greater, especially when the terrorists start coming here.
Desperation alert. Kerry is in huge trouble and if all he can do is lie his way to the election then his internal numbers must be very bad.
Every military draft during the 20th Century was initiated under a Democrat President. Both bills adrift in the House and Senate were sponsored by the Democrats. He's getting desperate. The evidence suggests that if you elect Kerry, there WILL be a draft.
Kerry just gave us more ammunition to knock his a@@ out of the race. Wait for the debates. If President Bush has the gonads, he should ask where Kerry heard this, and then trash him good. Kerry is just giving us more to work him over.
This is kind of good news in my book. Next line is that Bush will take away your social security. This kind of stupid attacks tell me that Kerry is getting desparate.
I am a Board member of the Local Selective Service Board Here in Denver Colorado and I can tell you Unequivocally that this is not true. In fact the exact opposite is true. No funds currently available for training of Board Members nor will there be for the next year or so.
I had just received a letter from the National Board about a month or so ago that stated that "Contrary to published reports, NO re-activation of the Selective Service is planned or contemplated"..
Standard summary #4F:
Yes there are draft proposals, almost all Democrat,
such as HR 163, which is entirely Dem.
They have NOTHING to do with military manpower requirements.
As intended-to-fail proposals, they are straw men set up
so that Kerry+Edwards can promise to oppose them (even
though they probably support them - see below). When do
you need to worry about what Kerry's plans are on an
issue? When he takes a position, any position.
Bush already opposes draft proposals, but don't expect
the legacy media to tell you this. They also won't pass
either the House or the Senate, but Bush wouldn't sign
them if they did.
As serious proposals, "draft" revival proposals have
everything to do with Universal National Service -
stealing two years from every life, then 3, then 4,
and why stop there ...
And National Service has nothing to do with service.
It has everything to do with indoctrination of the slaves.
Which means that if the "progressives" ever get control
again, kiss your liberty goodbye.
From HR 163: "...or a period of civilian service in
furtherance of the national defense and homeland
security, and for other purposes."
"other purposes"
Surely this will come up at the debates. If one of the questionaers does not ask about it then Mr Bush should bring it up himself. Unless Kerry does first. Then GWB can blast him with the facts and put this issue to rest.
I question the timing of this.
Fits nicely with the see-BS -- Viacom -- MTV -- Soros push poll doesn't it.
Let's just assume this is true. SO WHAT! I can't think of anything better for this country and our overweight, bored, body-pierced youth than the draft.
www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=200
this is a better debunker.
In truth, the pair of Universal National Service Act bills, S.89 and H.R.163, have been introduced and sponsored by liberal Democrats. S.89 is sponsored by Sen. Fritz Hollings (D-SC), while the companion H.R.163 was introduced by Congressional Black Caucus cofounder and Harlem representative Charlie Rangel (D-NY), along with 14 other Democrats that read like a Who's Who of the Left in Congress:
D Rep Abercrombie, Neil - 1/7/2003 [HI-1] D Rep Brown, Corrine - 1/28/2003 [FL-3] D Rep Christensen, Donna M. - 5/19/2004 [VI] D Rep Clay, Wm. Lacy - 1/28/2003 [MO-1] D Rep Conyers, John, Jr. - 1/7/2003 [MI-14] D Rep Cummings, Elijah E. - 1/28/2003 [MD-7] D Rep Hastings, Alcee L. - 1/28/2003 [FL-23] D Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila - 1/28/2003 [TX-18] D Rep Lewis, John - 1/7/2003 [GA-5] D Rep McDermott, Jim - 1/7/2003 [WA-7] D Rep Moran, James P. - 1/28/2003 [VA-8] D Rep Norton, Eleanor Holmes - 1/28/2003 [DC] D Rep Stark, Fortney Pete - 1/7/2003 [CA-13] D Rep Velazquez, Nydia M. - 1/28/2003 [NY-12]
And they are stepping up their attempt to register 18 year olds and motivate them them to vote. Combined with this, they no doubt see their margin strategy.
Great information. Are you allowed to represent the local Board to the media? This information needs to get to the general public.
Lies are all the Kerry campaign has. Period. Too bad they don't have a candidate that is not a psychopathic liar. They are now sooooo desperate, the OLD Dem playbook has come out...they are spraying everything from the race card, to voter disenfranchisement, scaring the old with social security, and the young with lies, just the same old lying, lying, lying.
If the American public does not get it now, they never will.
http://thomas.loc.gov/
HR 163
cosponsors:
Rep Abercrombie, Neil [HI-1] - 1/7/2003
Rep Brown, Corrine [FL-3] - 1/28/2003
Rep Christensen, Donna M. [VI] - 5/19/2004
Rep Clay, Wm. Lacy [MO-1] - 1/28/2003
Rep Conyers, John, Jr. [MI-14] - 1/7/2003
Rep Cummings, Elijah E. [MD-7] - 1/28/2003
Rep Hastings, Alcee L. [FL-23] - 1/28/2003
Rep Jackson, Jesse L., Jr. [IL-2] - 7/21/2004
Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila [TX-18] - 1/28/2003
Rep Lewis, John [GA-5] - 1/7/2003
Rep McDermott, Jim [WA-7] - 1/7/2003
Rep Moran, James P. [VA-8] - 1/28/2003
Rep Stark, Fortney Pete [CA-13] - 1/7/2003
Rep Velazquez, Nydia M. [NY-12] - 1/28/2003
Rep Norton, Eleanor Holmes [DC] - 1/28/2003(withdrawn - 6/21/2004)
good grief,
this is a lame, desperate attack by Kerry. The more he opens his mouth, the better it is for Bush. Rove & Co. have been slowly roasting this eunich for a couple of months now. Kerry's counterpunches are about as effective as my 5 year old niece in 4 lb boxing gloves.
Negative attacks never work against an incumbent. They only work against challengers.
This "draft" stuff is scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Kerry did proud to support North Vietnam during the war. Kerry is doing proud today supporting Terrorist's worldwide with his hogwash bullsh*t.. For those reason's I still consider you a bona-fide TRAITOR.
Reference bump.
Prospect Of A New Military Draft Drawing More Attention, Concern (LA Times)
Rumors fly of military draft (Minneapolis Star Tribune)
Military Draft? Official Denials Leave Skeptics (NY Times)
It's easy to find articles like this -- the DNC and MSM are just two heads of the same monster.
Thanks for posting the flyer they put out at the colleges!
The RNC needs to let people know this is being brought to you by the same people who brought us Ratherblather!
That's all.
given the way he has gone about this war and given his avoidance of responsibility in North Korea and Iran and other places, is it possible? I can't tell you."
Funny. Kerry can get away with all sorts of this stuff his staff is spinning. They've even fixed the upcoming debates, so far, to preclude discussion of foreign policy other than Iraq.
Do you suppose that this is just one more pathetic example of Dims accusing the GOP of what they themselves are planning???
Slightly Overstated Alert
Seriesly
No offense intended, but anticipating the next lie from your opponent is like knowing where the next terrorist attack will come. It's rather hit or miss, but the GOP rapid response is better now than it ever has been. Bush hits sKerry EVERYDAY.
Didn't anyone also notice in this speech he is starting the same old "scare the Old people" routine. Bush is going to take away your SS bull. He also said he would never allow young people to invest part of their SS in private accounts. Let me tell you all something I am sure you already know - My sister is 58 years old - she has been working since she was 16 and contributing to SS all this time - last week she had surgery for ovarian cancer and will not live more than 1 year - who do you suppose will get all her contibutions to SS - not her son!!! If she had been able to invest even a small amount of this on her own her family would get at least part of her hard work - as it is the government will get it all. Tell Mr. Kerry to join the real working class and shove his ideas where the sun don't shine!!!!!
I hope they respond to this. Putting flyers in colleges is not good.
You're correct.
Let's get some knuckle busters out there to hit back and hard. Class and generational warfare talk has always worked for the Dems in the past and it will again. Best we can do is try to stem the tide by hitting back hard and repeatedly.
Bull. This election cycle has shown me that the republicans are going to play hardball. This accusation wont go unanswered...you gave it all, what, 5 minutes??
John Manchurian Candidate Michael Moore F@ckhead Kerry
The man is a traitor to America.
Is Kerry saying Bush will draft kids because he IS'T fighting a war in Iran or Korea? Who is Kerry going to use for troops when he attacks Iran and Korea? (oh yeah, I forgot, the French Foreign Legion)
This is what I have been talking about the last couple of weeks. I live in a college town and it has been going around.
We need to put an end to this NOW.
We need to organize and put the word out that it is the DEMS who want draft people and have the bill to draft folks.
This could be a stealth issue. We need to stop it, NOW.
Nor, do they ever respond....leaving the blinded masses to believe the lies as truth.
This explains a lot. My son mentioned this to me the other day. Apparently kids in his school (H.S.) have been talking about the draft coming back. MTV brainwashing kids with Rat lies.
I just saw a clip of Kerry speaking in Florida. He sounds terrible. The guy can't hack the pressure of the campaign trail. No matter what he's saying, all the viewer will see is a man too sick to be president ;)
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=200
---
BINGO! I hope B/C puts something out about this to fight this baloney.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.