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FR Live Thread: Bush Kerry - First Debate - Thread 2 - Here we go!

Posted on 09/30/2004 5:57:19 PM PDT by Admin Moderator

Thread 1 - Pre-Debate discussion


TOPICS: Breaking News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bush; debate; debates; electionpresident; firstdebate; globalpoints; kerry
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To: Admin Moderator
Geez....I've never seen a thread this big or this active...

Two brief points, please take note:

1. Kerry: "Saddam didn't attack us...Osama did". Then, why is he so interested in Kim Jong Il? He hasn't attacked us, either!

2. Kerry consistently criticized the president for not being sincere in building a coalition before going into Iraq. But then, he focused on North Korea...and said we should pursue bilateral discussions...and effectively abandon the 5-nation coalition that Bush has built.

Hypocrisy? Inconsistency? I think so.

2,401 posted on 09/30/2004 7:46:51 PM PDT by Fredgoblu
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To: tagawgrag
"Both Russert and the CNN heads said it was pretty much a draw. But the CNN guy said the on the fence candidates might "

Yeah FOX panel seems to have the same take. Kerry strong enough to stay in the game. No one acting like this was an unusual debate or one side clearly won hands down.

2,402 posted on 09/30/2004 7:47:02 PM PDT by DestroytheDemocrats
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To: ArmyBratproud
Agreed. People go on about the missed opportunity's President Bush had and didn't bash Kerry with. There's over four weeks left. Did these people want President Bush to lay all of his cards on the table today? He knows what's coming, and I'm confident well see a resolution to all of these people's concerns in the next few weeks.

Some of these things 527's are taking Kerry to task for already, and we are going to see more.
2,403 posted on 09/30/2004 7:47:07 PM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult ("I hate going to places like Austin and Dubuque to raise large sums of money. But I have to," Kerry)
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To: Vermont Lt
He is inarticulate. He stumbles. He grasps for words. Its aggravating. But thats who he is.

I wonder if the "stumbling" and "grasping" (followed, of course, by the words he does utter) make an impression that he is sincere, honest, and has genuine care about the well-being of others. Quick, well spoken people may trigger a reaction of "snake" to the average observer. Just a thought. Human interaction isn't what it appears to be on the surface.

2,404 posted on 09/30/2004 7:47:11 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: mewzilla

Right.

Who is President Kerry going to be? We still don't know. And THAT is what Kerry's job was tonight- if W had calmed down more, that point would have come across more.


2,405 posted on 09/30/2004 7:47:16 PM PDT by lawgirl (I like knowing where my President is every night- at home in bed with his wife!)
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To: In The Defense of Liberty
I digress

How many of your friends would honestly tell you that they would base their vote on "style'?

To be certain, some shallow people will,
but I'll submit that many more will do it based substance.

On a whole we are not a shallow people;
Especially amoungst the subset who have taken the time to register to vote.

2,406 posted on 09/30/2004 7:47:17 PM PDT by TeleStraightShooter (Kerry plans to graff post-Vietnam policy on Iraq: Cut funding and let the Syrian Baathists take over)
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To: TeleStraightShooter

Solid performance by Bush. the "Trustfunder" had a couple of quotables:

1) I won't wilt...I'll never wilt...
2) Global smell test for Nuke Proliferation

CNN going crazy about Tora Bora - I think they are off on a diversion:-)

P


2,407 posted on 09/30/2004 7:47:24 PM PDT by Paul12438
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To: Admin Moderator
Without reading the prior posts, I believe President Bush got his head handed to him. I can't believe how inarticulate he was and had such a smug look on his face.

More importantly, I was disappointed that with Kerry babbling on about coalitions that Bush did not speak of sovereignty until his closing remarks. I was also disappointed that Bush did not tell Kerry he has no way of knowing the intricacies of the innner circle's state policies.

And why did it take Bush in his closing comments to finally make the point of keeping terrorism offshore? He eluded to that frequently about being on the "offense", but didn't make it clear about taking the fight to them.

Also, I kept hearing "talking points" from Bush, which is usually the demcRATs M.O.

He just lost 5 points in his lead. That said, there's a big difference between a leader and a "slick" talker.

2,408 posted on 09/30/2004 7:47:28 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (www.opgratitude.com)
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To: Petronski
Yes, of course Lubyanka was the KGB prison, that was his point. But it is not on Treblinka Square. It is on a square once known as Dzerzhinsky Square, now known as Lubyanka Square.

Of course, Kerry was at Treblinka Square. Just as Kerry was in Cambodia at Christmas 1968, under orders from President Nixon.

2,409 posted on 09/30/2004 7:47:31 PM PDT by Thumper1960 ("It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed."-V.I.Lenin)
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To: B Knotts
I'm puzzled at the president's apparent lack of preparation.

I think he had too much of the wrong kind of preparation. I think they crammed his head full of talking points.

2,410 posted on 09/30/2004 7:47:35 PM PDT by ScottFromSpokane (Re-elect President Bush: http://spokanegop.org/bush.html)
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To: LeoWindhorse

Bush sounded somewhat unprepared at the beginning. Kerry came across as confident and knowledgable. Kerry wins the Iraq discussion insofar as he did not sound like a waffler (though he most certainly IS and I am sure that Republican ads and talking points will hit this hard). Bush came across much stronger at the end when they talked abou NK, Iran and Russia. Kerry's claim to have "never waivered in my life" was a LOL moment and this will be used against him with good effect. The "global test" exchange was a definite winner for Bush.

I give the edge to Kerry but doubt this will make much difference in the polls. We will see.


2,411 posted on 09/30/2004 7:47:36 PM PDT by scory
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To: B Knotts

I think the panic is premature and here is why I think this. I have a daughter who was taking notes for her gov't class. Her exact words when trying to take notes on one of Kerry's responses was "Its hard to take notes on what he says." In a world of spin and nuance, that was the single most brilliant political observation I have heard.


2,412 posted on 09/30/2004 7:47:39 PM PDT by WillVoteForFood
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To: Admin Moderator
Bottom line? - Bush will win re-election. Most people have made up their minds by now. They have already compared and they know that Bush is steadfast, honest and strong. He may not talk fancy, but he's got it where it counts.

Kerry comes across as the arrogant, priviledged ass that he is. He may talk smooth but the messege is empty.

I'm not worried at all.

Thank God for President Bush! God Bless President Bush!
2,413 posted on 09/30/2004 7:47:44 PM PDT by sneakers
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To: OXENinFLA
Tonight KERRY said he would >> .... give Iran NUKE FULE. .......stop Bunker Buster Program. ......put US National security to a "Global Test".

Yep.. Kerry really is UNFIT FOR COMMAND. Too bad he didn't try to push the OTHER book he wrote: "The New Soldier."

Unfortunately, Bush had to look Presidental and couldn't tell this tool Kerry what he really thought.

2,414 posted on 09/30/2004 7:47:47 PM PDT by GAGOPSWEEPTOVICTORY
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To: mewzilla
Kerry's "Iraq policy"...is....to have A SUMMIT!!!
2,415 posted on 09/30/2004 7:47:48 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Main Stream Media == PRAVDA)
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To: Admin Moderator

As an American, I don't want a President who thinks he needs to get world leaders' approvals before he takes action to defend America. I will not vote for a President who thinks he has to pass a "GLOBAL TEST" --

THE ONLY TEST I CARE ABOUT IS WHAT IS GOOD FOR AMERICA!!!

KERRY IS TOAST!


2,416 posted on 09/30/2004 7:47:58 PM PDT by Lux-In-Domino
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To: Bahbah
Dzerzhinsky belonged to Lubyanka Square, where the old headquarters of the KGB is stil

Another Kerry mistake, after flubbing Pottery Barn.

2,417 posted on 09/30/2004 7:47:59 PM PDT by Jabba the Nutt (Michael Moore: Will lie for food and I stay busy!)
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To: Admin Moderator

President Bush lost, and he didn't have to.

When is he going to expose all of Kerry's liberal positions, e.g. support for Gays in the military, opposition to the death penalty, etc.?

Polls will be moving in the wrong direction over the next week.


2,418 posted on 09/30/2004 7:48:09 PM PDT by Growler
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To: MonroeDNA
"I know I am going against the crowd here, but I have to say that Bush lost that debate. Not even close. He was defensive, stammering, paused way to many times, and seemed like he was defending himself.

His attacks on Kerry came across as very weak, like talking points.

Kerry was convincing, smooth, and polished. If I had no horse in this race, I'd be on Kerry's side after watching that disaster."

Folksie vs. City-Slicker

What will be the impression upon the Undecideds?

No doubt -- Dubya seemed to have lost on points, but came off real and genuine.

2,419 posted on 09/30/2004 7:48:12 PM PDT by F16Fighter
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To: dead
Kerry won the debate. Had more facts, stayed on message better, seemed in control.

Kerry won the debate. Had more facts, stayed on message better, seemed in control.

2,420 posted on 09/30/2004 7:48:17 PM PDT by quantim (Victory is not relative, it is absolute.)
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