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Battle of Lepanto

Posted on 10/07/2004 9:47:44 AM PDT by omega4412

Today is the anniversary of the Battle of Lepanto, October 7, 1571, in which a Christian navy under Don John of Austria defeated the Turks.

Commemorated in G K Chesterton's poem Lepanto. An excerpt...as Don John approaches, Mohammed ("Mahound") speaking to his demons...

"But a noise is in the mountains, in the mountains, and I know
The voice that shook our palaces—four hundred years ago:
It is he that saith not 'Kismet'; it is he that knows not Fate;
It is Richard, it is Raymond, it is Godfrey at the gate!
It is he whose loss is laughter when he counts the wager worth..."

Fans of the poem might like the book "Lepanto by G K Chesterton," edited by Dale Ahlquist, on the historical and literary background of the poem. Ahlquist writes,

"So the problem with the poem is that it is a defense of the Catholic Church, of the Crusades, and of war: three things not generally looked kindly upon in today's English literature classes. Of course, neither are rhyme and meter. The only 20th century poetry that is permitted to be studied is that which clashes with everything: with the ear, with history, and with common sense."

More on the history


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: battleoflepantyhose; battleofmypantshaha; battleofmypantsoh; islam; worldwariv
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1 posted on 10/07/2004 9:47:44 AM PDT by omega4412
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To: omega4412

This probably isn't even taught in schools anymore; with the mean Christians defeating the Religion of Peace and all.


2 posted on 10/07/2004 9:49:16 AM PDT by Aetius
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To: omega4412

Is'nt Austria land locked?


3 posted on 10/07/2004 9:49:30 AM PDT by KC_Conspirator (I am poster #48)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: Aetius

Well, my students have to write a paper on it because we use "Carnage and Culture" as our textbook!


5 posted on 10/07/2004 9:50:40 AM PDT by LS
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To: omega4412

I just bought that book last week & read it. Awesome.


6 posted on 10/07/2004 9:50:59 AM PDT by nina0113
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To: omega4412
Highlights:

In September of 1571, Don John moved the Catholic fleet east to intercept the Turks at Corfu, but the Turks had already landed, terrorized the population, and then moved on. While anchored off the coast of Cephalonia, news reached Don John that the Christian stronghold at Famagusta on Cyprus had fallen to the Turks, with all prisoners being tortured and then executed by the Moslems.

Over 12,000 Catholic galley slaves had also been rescued from the Moslems.

When news of the victory finally reached Europe, church bells rang out in cities all across the continent. The Battle of Lepanto was a decisive victory, with only 40 of the over 300 Moslem ships surviving the engagement. The Turkish force of some 75,000 men was in ruins.

7 posted on 10/07/2004 9:56:25 AM PDT by 2banana (They want to die for Islam and we want to kill them)
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To: omega4412
In a tangentially related incident, today is also the anniversary of Leon Klinghoffer taking his last dip in the Mediterranean in 1985.
8 posted on 10/07/2004 9:56:40 AM PDT by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: omega4412

MATAMOROS


9 posted on 10/07/2004 9:59:06 AM PDT by BayouCoyote (The 1st victim of islam is the person who practices it.)
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To: KC_Conspirator
Is'nt Austria land locked?

Actually, it's "isn't". Basic history lesson. By "Austria" here is meant the Hapsburg Holy Roman Empire which embraced Spain, Austria, the Low Countries, and much of Germany and Italy. The world's first global superpower.

10 posted on 10/07/2004 10:03:09 AM PDT by Sam the Sham
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To: KC_Conspirator
The Habsburg monarchs ruled from Vienna, Austria, but as Holy Roman Emperors they ruled over lands including Spain, Sicily and Croatia which have substantial seacoasts.

Austrian-ruled territory has only been landlocked since 1919.

11 posted on 10/07/2004 10:03:42 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: billorites

In another related event, Oct. 7, 2001, America began bombing the Taliban in Afghanistan.


12 posted on 10/07/2004 10:11:32 AM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth...)
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To: BayouCoyote
Where is Santiago Matomoros when we really need him?
13 posted on 10/07/2004 10:12:21 AM PDT by omega4412
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To: wideawake
Lepanto Bump.

Christians need to understand their own history.

14 posted on 10/07/2004 10:12:30 AM PDT by d-back
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: billorites

Tangential? Another skirmish in a war that began in 600-whatever A.D.


16 posted on 10/07/2004 10:14:57 AM PDT by omega4412
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide

In a truly unrelated coincidence Oct. 7th is George Nethercutt's 60th birthday.


17 posted on 10/07/2004 10:16:52 AM PDT by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: nina0113

If you liked Carnage and Culture, you'll love The Soul of Battle, also by Victor Davis Hansen. I'm almost done with it now, and it is GOOD.


18 posted on 10/07/2004 10:18:28 AM PDT by ladyrustic
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To: omega4412
Pointless side note:

Lepanto is also a small town in Arkansas. I remember back when Rick Dees was a Memphis disk jockey, one of his many characters would often refer to "LePantyhose, Arkansas."

19 posted on 10/07/2004 10:18:35 AM PDT by Drawsing
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To: LS

I'd love to have a "Lepanto" T-shirt.

Fundraiser idea for your students?


20 posted on 10/07/2004 10:20:29 AM PDT by fishtank
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To: omega4412
Also a tip of the hat to Battle of Lepanto veteran, Miguel de Cervantes.
21 posted on 10/07/2004 10:21:47 AM PDT by DeFault User
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To: omega4412

For battle details, a book with many maps and illustrations that I liked was:

Lepanto 1571, The greatest naval battle of the Renaissance: Angus Konstam. Pub: Osprey

The battle also merited a chapter of the Victor Davis Hanson book "Carnage and Culture".


22 posted on 10/07/2004 10:28:13 AM PDT by Willgamer (Rex Lex or Lex Rex?)
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To: omega4412

The Battle of Lepanto (1571)
Paolo Veronese

23 posted on 10/07/2004 10:29:28 AM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Drawsing
I thought I only remembered stuff like that.
(I don't have time for you!)
24 posted on 10/07/2004 10:30:07 AM PDT by oyez (¡Qué viva la revolución de Reagan!)
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To: Aetius

The Song of Roland is another one that has pretty much disappeared from literature classes, for the same reason. These poems show just how long this battle has gone on. Time to end it once and for all.


25 posted on 10/07/2004 10:31:54 AM PDT by KellyAdmirer
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To: KC_Conspirator

It is now, but it wasn't then. Then it was a part of the Holy Roman Empire, ruled by the Catholic Hapsburgs. The Empire had several ports on the Mediterranean. Lepanto was one of the two huge, significant battles that stopped the advance of Islam into Europe. The other was the battle of Vienna about a century later, where the Turkish (Islamic) siege of Vienna was broken.


26 posted on 10/07/2004 10:35:08 AM PDT by libstripper
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To: ladyrustic

Actually it was the Dale Ahlquist-edited book I bought, and read the poem & commentary. I'll try to get to Carnage & Culture sometime soon though.


27 posted on 10/07/2004 10:44:28 AM PDT by nina0113
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To: DeFault User

"Also a tip of the hat to Battle of Lepanto veteran, Miguel de Cervantes."



"El Manco de Lepanto." Cervantes lost the use of his left arm in the Battle of Lepanto; thank God it wasn't his right arm, or we may have never gotten Don Quixote.


28 posted on 10/07/2004 10:53:15 AM PDT by AuH2ORepublican (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: omega4412

Thanks.. BUMP


29 posted on 10/07/2004 11:04:45 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :)
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To: B-Chan
I think that naval battle is regarded as the swansong of the ram-equipped, oar-powered galley. The galley's had cannons, but they generally fired straight forward because the sides were fully consumed with oars.

After this battle, the sail powered galleon with broadside-firing cannon became the gold standard of naval power.

30 posted on 10/07/2004 11:07:40 AM PDT by Tallguy (If the Kerry campaign implodes any further, they'll reach the point of "singularity" by election day)
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To: omega4412
What would surprise pretty much any well-educated person who is even aware that such a battle took place, is the number of famous "recognizable" names who participated in this battle and the larger war.

I won't spoil it for anyone...

31 posted on 10/07/2004 11:10:15 AM PDT by Publius6961 (I, also, don't do diplomacy.)
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To: LS
Well, my students have to write a paper on it because we use "Carnage and Culture" as our textbook!

You will get a bill for emergency services that resulted from my fainting!
Pray tell... what public school might this be?

yes, I am being sarcastic...

32 posted on 10/07/2004 11:13:01 AM PDT by Publius6961 (I, also, don't do diplomacy.)
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To: nina0113

I have that book! It is really good!


33 posted on 10/07/2004 11:14:53 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, sancta Dei Genitrix.... sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper...)
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To: Aetius

It isn't taught in school. Bump for later read.


34 posted on 10/07/2004 11:20:44 AM PDT by IrishCatholic (No local communist or socialist party chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing.)
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To: Publius6961

You caught me! I teach at a PRIVATE Catholic school, the University of Dayton.


35 posted on 10/07/2004 11:42:42 AM PDT by LS
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To: Tallguy

Regarding the galley, a Christian edge at Lepanto was 70 of a prototype ship called the galleas which was an attempt to put galleon firepower on a galley.

Over the long run, the galleas, like the clipper ship, was a doomed concept.


36 posted on 10/07/2004 12:20:34 PM PDT by Sam the Sham
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To: omega4412

Returning soon..I hope.


37 posted on 10/07/2004 1:46:25 PM PDT by BayouCoyote (The 1st victim of islam is the person who practices it.)
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To: Sam the Sham

If I'm not mistake the Galleyas (sp?) was pretty much a galley with raised fighting platforms at the fo'csle & poop decks. Works fine for light guns & marines, but not for heavier guns that were on the horizon. Plus that must have made an oar powered vessel very unmanagable in the wind.


38 posted on 10/07/2004 3:14:00 PM PDT by Tallguy (If the Kerry campaign implodes any further, they'll reach the point of "singularity" by election day)
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To: Tallguy

That is why I likened it to the clipper ship as a technological peak. It was the peak in terms of putting firepower on a galley. But of course ocean going vessels got bigger and stronger and there is a fixed maximum in terms of what can be rowed.


39 posted on 10/08/2004 10:45:59 AM PDT by Sam the Sham
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To: LS
I was hoping it was a high school. Actually, not too long ago, this would have been latter grade school material.
Better late than never however. Good luck with your superior curriculum.
40 posted on 10/09/2004 1:36:28 AM PDT by Publius6961 (I, also, don't do diplomacy.)
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To: omega4412

bttttttttt


41 posted on 10/09/2004 1:37:04 AM PDT by dennisw (Gd is against Amelek for all generations.)
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To: Tallguy

Yes, except they had exceptionally long ranged guns, and destroyed the Turkish fleet (20 ships, taken out by 4) before they even got in range.


42 posted on 10/09/2004 6:21:32 AM PDT by LS
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To: Publius6961

You ain't kidding. In the late 70s/early 80s, I taught at a Catholic prep school in Phx. and could assign TWICE the workload that I can to my college students, with an equal amount of understanding/retention.


43 posted on 10/09/2004 6:22:29 AM PDT by LS
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To: LS
Define long range? The science of getting the most range from a particular powder charge & tube length was underdeveloped (it was flat-out guesswork, actually).

I admit a gap in my knowlege of naval tactics during Lepanto-era. I'm betting that the heavy-caliber cannon fire was directed pretty much in the forward direction, because the galley was strongest along its keel, and therefore gunfire was used as a prelude to ramming. Firing guns at any other angle would likely induce a destabilizing roll. Guns that were directed outward along the beams of a galleyas would probably be used to discourage ramming or to clear the decks of an opponent prior to boarding.

I do know that during the later period of the Spanish Armada, the guns of the Spanish galleons were basically impossible to reload -- so naval gunfire was basically a one-shot, or one salvo affair. Only the English had a compact gun carriage that would permit reloading, but this was still some years off. Also, ships of that later period were generally not sunk, they were more commonly boarded & captured. But with the less robust construction of galleys (relative to galleons, cogs, etc.) this may not have held true.

44 posted on 10/09/2004 6:54:41 AM PDT by Tallguy (If the Kerry campaign implodes any further, they'll reach the point of "singularity" by election day)
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To: Tallguy

Like you, I'm certainly no expert on this, but Hanson says they were longer range guns. Much of this was achieved by the Genoese and Venetian practice of BRONZE casting of guns, which gave them the ability to maintain a slightly larger powder charge. I do think the Galleass' guns were re-loadable. They simply could not have achieved a five-fold kill ratio if they weren't.


45 posted on 10/09/2004 7:04:19 AM PDT by LS
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To: LS
IIRC, the Galleases (that's a tough word) were arrayed as a kind of flying wedge at the fore of a larger fleet of conventional galleys. They used their mass & cannons to plow into the Turkish fleet, disrupting their formation. Individual galleys need maneuvering room. If you pack them together you can destabilize a whole group of galleys and make them vulnerable to capsizing or boarding.

Whatever the reasons for their success, the Galleas was a 'silver bullet' weapon at Lepanto. The Turks simply had no weapon or tactic to counter it.

46 posted on 10/09/2004 7:13:20 AM PDT by Tallguy (If the Kerry campaign implodes any further, they'll reach the point of "singularity" by election day)
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To: Tallguy

Yep, and two of the six never saw action, along with 20 of the Christian galleys.


47 posted on 10/09/2004 7:31:29 AM PDT by LS
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To: omega4412

BTTT


48 posted on 10/07/2005 5:50:13 AM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: murphE

Reposted. Thanks for the reminder.


49 posted on 10/07/2005 8:32:23 AM PDT by omega4412 (Multiculturalism kills -- NYC/DC/PA, Madrid, London...)
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To: omega4412; RIghtwardHo; Reaganite Republican; Clintons Are White Trash; HerrBlucher; mgist; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

50 posted on 01/31/2013 5:34:31 PM PST by narses
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