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Summary of UN gun debate in Kings College, London - NRA's Wayne LaPierre vs IANSA's Rebecca Peters
Pay Per View | 10-12-04 | Dan from MI

Posted on 10/12/2004 8:48:40 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan

I just watched the Gun Debate on Pay Per View. For $10, I decided to give it a try. It was on In Demand (channel 201 on my cable) at 9PM Eastern and is on again right now in my part of Michigan. I've heard LaPierre speak before, but never heard Peters speak. I actually got my money's worth, since Peters actually laid out her "Moderate" gun control agenda.

I expected a completely blasting of the NRA and the US there since it was in London, but I thought it was handled very well. The moderator was professional and let them both speak. He was tough to all sides on questions and stuck me as an "old school" academic. The crowd leaned against us, but there were a few die hard pro-2a'ers there even in London. One was an English gunowner who called Peters' plan "Rubbish". He's welcome here anytime. :)

One thing I like about the event being in England. The rhetoric was less disguised on the part of the gun grabbers.

Summary

Opening Statements
Rebecca Peters - Blamed guns for worldwide suffering. She said most of the problems were in developed world, but the USA had a lot of gun problems as well. She said that guns disrupt peace keeping missions, hinder tourism and development of countries, causes domestic violence, and child soldiers(since guns are cheap). She said that 2/3 of guns are in private citizens. She said the gun industry is a $7.5 billion business. She said there were more guns than cars on earth. She attacked the USA and Europe for being arms manufacturers. She also blasted countries with lenient gun laws causing violence in countries with stricter laws. Used some African countries as an example, as well as the US(Canada and Mexico).

She said that Australia's "gun murder rate" went down after the 96 ban. Called it a moderate measure. Semi-auto ban and buybacks. She said the UK handgun ban was great except for a loophole.

As for the UN small arms treaty, Peters said that this was pre-Sept 11, and she wondered if it would be opposed this time. Said the US had trouble with claused in it to non state(government) groups.

Wayne LaPierre - He said that all sides want to end oppression. Said that the US is a very generous nation. He then said that Peters said that American Freedoms are the problem. He said the UN proposal would create a global bureaucracy and that IANSA wants to impliment its social engineering on the US. Compared the funding of the NRA ($35 checks)against IANSA's network of big benefactors.

He spoke about American self evident freedoms to defend themselves, families, and country and said that those who want to bargain freedom away for security doesn't have security, but only surrender.

He mentioned concealed carry and dropping crime rates, while the crime rates in UK and Australia increased. He said that good people need to be armed, bad people disarmed.

-------------------

One question to Peters - Should US be forced to obey the UN treaty

Peters - This is not a UN treaty. It is a group of governments. She then called the treaty MODERATE measures. Treaties are the best way to go. Guns are the only weapon not covered by current treaties. The US is part of the world, and needs to be part of the world.

LaPierre - Treaties do not supercede the constitution. Said this bans civillian firearms ownership. Quotes Peters in 2000 attacking the first amendment for protecting alledged lies as long as it is political.

Peters - Said a global structure is needed, and that the NRA's view was that Americans were more equal than others.

---------------------

The second Question was something about 'flood of guns into developing countries'

LaPierre - It's a flood of demand, not guns. Free people want constitutional freedoms and good government. In WWII, The US and NRA members send guns to Britain.

Peters - More guns makes no sense. Guns don't help, and stronger institutions are needed. Reform police.

Lapierre - Bad people and bad governments are the problem. Guns don't have legs(The gun didn't get up and shoot someone). Good people need to protect themselves.

-------------------

Peters doesn't support banning all guns. She supports licensing, registration, bans on some categories of guns - including high powered, rapid fire, and limits on amount of guns owned. Said good people do bad things.

LaPierre - Quotes Peters from CNN supporting a ban on all guns that shoot over 100 meters. That's a football field. Also cites IANSA pamphlets.

Peters later said that all semi-autos and handguns should be banned. No guns should be owned for self-defense reasons. Single shots are good for deer hunting. Hanguns have no SPORTING PURPOSE, nor do semi-auto.

LaPierre later mentioned George Soros and his election manipulations and his support for IANSA. Also attacked Peters for saying gun makers should be sued.

Peters said every gun starts out legal. There isn't a different stack for criminals. Repeatedly at different times said that saying good people are seperated from bad people are is only in the movies. LaPierre repeated called IANSA a socialist fantasy.

Peters thinks the US "gun culture" will go away, that the US is not exempt from the rest of the world. We are all citizens of the world.

LaPierre called IANSA a global nanny. Mentioned Soros and elitists living behind security walls, and away from the real world. Victims deserve a chance to defend themselves.

Peters said the gun lobby was obstructing global progress. Guns aren't needed. Democracy is.

LaPierre brought up Rwanda, Pol Pot and other nations exterminating people, and that the UN did not intervene and was unable to protect them. He also said that IANSA thinks governments are soverign, not individuals.

Peters said that governments are needed and countered with the world moving away from Thomas Hobbes.

In the closing statements Peters mentioned Self Defense as not being a reason to own a firearm, and that anyone who owned a firearm for self defense in Australia was breaking the law. She said that as a positive thing.

LaPierre in his closing statement mentioned freedoms, George Soros and his 527s for manipulating elections and his ties to IANSA, and that IANSA's proposal is giving sweeping police powers against ALL of the US bill of rights, not just the 2nd amendment, and that it would create a global bureaucracy. Said that IANSA did not mention anywhere anything about oppressed people from governments, criminals, due process, self-defense, property rights, and respect for political freedom.


TOPICS: Announcements; Australia/New Zealand; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; constitution; georgesoros; guncontrol; gundebate; guns; iansa; lapierre; nra; peters; rebeccapeters; soros; un; unitednations; waynelapierre
I recommend watching this one. It gives a good picture of what we are up against and shows more than what I can use from my notes. I don't think many converts were made from the debate, but hopefully the gun owners who aren't activists wake up. Klinton may be gone, but freedoms grabbers aren't gone. They are alive and well, and one of them is named John Kerry.
1 posted on 10/12/2004 8:48:41 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan
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To: Dan from Michigan
Mr. Lappierre should have pointed out that the governments that had the 'strongest institutions' have done most of the killing in the last hundred years.

I believe it's around 200 million or so at last count.

L

2 posted on 10/12/2004 8:54:01 PM PDT by Lurker ( Rope, tree, Islamofascist. Adult assembly required.)
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To: Dan from Michigan

One question: What did Ms. Peters look like?


3 posted on 10/12/2004 9:00:55 PM PDT by nwrep
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To: Dan from Michigan
Peters doesn't support banning all guns. She supports licensing, registration, bans on some categories of guns - including high powered, rapid fire, and limits on amount of guns owned.

No, just any gun with enough power to kill a tyrant would be banned from civilian ownership by Peters and her band of fools.

My screen name isn't just a name. It is a mindset and a way of life.

Here is a little quote from Henry Waxman:

"If someone is so fearful that, that they’re going to start using their weapons to protect their rights, makes me very nervous that these people have these weapons at all!"

HOW DARE WE THINK THAT WE CAN PROTECT OUR RIGHTS!

4 posted on 10/12/2004 9:12:33 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (God is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: nwrep

She looked like a stereotypical leftist.
Her hair is shorter than mine, and I haven't even grown my out like I did last year.


5 posted on 10/12/2004 9:15:41 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan ("Dead or alive, I got a .45 - and I never miss!!!" - AC/DC - Problem Child)
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To: Dan from Michigan
LaPierre - Quotes Peters from CNN supporting a ban on all guns that shoot over 100 meters. That's a football field. Also cites IANSA pamphlets.

Ban anything that shoots over 100 meters? Heck, a Red Ryder would probably do that.

6 posted on 10/12/2004 9:19:00 PM PDT by supercat (If Kerry becomes President, nothing bad will happen for which he won't have an excuse.)
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To: supercat

Aren't Red Ryders also outlawed in England?


7 posted on 10/12/2004 9:24:59 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (God is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: nwrep

I hear she has three eyes and the one in her forehead is bovine. ;)


8 posted on 10/12/2004 9:25:17 PM PDT by Free Trapper (Terrorism is the Black Heart of Islam,not the fringe!)
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To: Dan from Michigan

It's too bad the forum didn't allow for asking the sniveling b***h whether it was better that someone who is threatened by a criminal or a rogue Government, should be allowed to defend themself, or whether it's better that in such cases the individual simply be forced to perish "in the public interest".

That's the question that needs to be asked of these Socialist vipers, and asked over and over and over again while they try to sidestep the issue and avoid answering, until they finally crumble on camera.


9 posted on 10/12/2004 9:28:12 PM PDT by fire_eye (Socialism is the opiate of academia.)
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To: Dan from Michigan
Don't forget to vote in the debate poll.

Here is the Link

and the password gun2004

Vote as often as you like, but use a different e-mail address each time

10 posted on 10/12/2004 9:32:19 PM PDT by P8riot (A gun is just a substitute for a penis, so when attacked by a mugger one should pull out a..........)
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To: Dan from Michigan

Savage: Mean-faced clipped-haired


11 posted on 10/12/2004 9:55:58 PM PDT by Crazieman (Islam. Religion of peace, and they'll kill you to prove it.)
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To: Crazieman

Sounds like a Kelly Reno-ish warthog.

I'd like to pin her down (like an insect on a specimen plate, yeah, sure) and get the skinny on what makes her mind work. It basically confirms that Ms. Peters' "work" won't end with civil disarmament but has everything to do with throwing herself on the side of "government" against the individual in the sovereignty debate.


12 posted on 10/12/2004 10:46:05 PM PDT by coydog (My bathroom djinn can beat up your bathroom djinn!)
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To: Dan from Michigan
Peters said that governments are needed and countered with the world moving away from Thomas Hobbes.

OK this makes no sense. It is the Hobbesian view that governments are needed to control the savagery of mankind and maintain order. The Peters view of One Ring to Rule Them All is inherently Hobbesian.

13 posted on 10/12/2004 11:15:41 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Liberals want to make things better by changing them, but not by so much so anybody would notice)
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To: Crazieman; Dan from Michigan
Even on Depleted Uranium she was refered to as "the unwoman"







OK maybe it was "the UN woman", but there are times when strict accuracy may be discarded.
14 posted on 10/13/2004 12:03:48 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Liberals want to make things better by changing them, but not by so much so anybody would notice)
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To: Dan from Michigan

No guns should be owned for self defense reasons according to Peters????...Oh...I see...when some whack job busts into your house at 2:00 a.m....just sit down and offer to make coffee and have a chat as to why their bad childhood caused all this...NOT!...The second I realize someone has broken in....their ass is mine.


15 posted on 10/13/2004 12:18:47 AM PDT by Stateline
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To: Dan from Michigan
We are all citizens of the world.

G-- D--- it!! I am NOT a citizen of the world. If by some chance I missed the fact that I am, I hereby and publicly renounce my citizenship in the world. I am a citizen of the United States of America, at least until John Kerry or his ilk gets elected and sells us out to the UN by treaty.

Peters said that governments are needed and countered with the world moving away from Thomas Hobbes.

To paraphrase the Greek philosopher, "Only the dead have seen the last of Thomas Hobbes". Human nature hasn't changed in the six thousand years of recorded history, and sure as hell isn't going to change any time soon. What a fool.

16 posted on 10/13/2004 5:07:17 AM PDT by Hardastarboard
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To: Lurker

Perhaps Lapierre was able to convert the English who saw it and remind the men at least, what the hell it is to be free. We need more global debate on this subject and more nations like England and Australia to return freedom to their people or their people to take their freedom back.


17 posted on 10/13/2004 5:14:52 AM PDT by normy (Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.)
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To: Dan from Michigan
If the blue hats try to outlaw guns in the US, it may get ugly.

I think they know that, otherwise we would have gone the way of the UK and Australia a long time ago.
18 posted on 10/13/2004 5:46:20 AM PDT by redgolum (Molon labe)
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To: Dan from Michigan; Joe Brower; Travis McGee; B4Ranch; Squantos; archy; Cincinatus' Wife
Just as in Mein Kampf, they're spelling out what they plan to do to western civilization first. NEVER let it be said that tyrants do not trumpet to the world what they plan to do.
19 posted on 10/13/2004 5:55:17 AM PDT by risk
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To: Dan from Michigan
This Peters creature would rather see a woman raped and strangled to death with her pantyhose than defending herself with a handgun. I am certain this represents the UN position on firearms and self defense as well.

That is all you really need to know about the UN stance on private ownership of firearms.
20 posted on 10/13/2004 5:57:53 AM PDT by Little Ray (John Ffing sKerry: Just a gigolo!)
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To: Dan from Michigan
Re: Rebecca Peters

Well, well.... Looky here:

Soros Justice Fellowships -- Grantees

21 posted on 10/13/2004 6:02:33 AM PDT by Cincinatus (Omnia relinquit servare Republicam)
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To: Dan from Michigan

Scary.


22 posted on 10/13/2004 6:06:33 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Dan from Michigan

Do you think Wayne won the debate?


23 posted on 10/13/2004 6:06:53 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Cincinatus

I know. She used to work for Soros as well. She was part of the "Open Society" institute which had a gun grab division to it. It concentrated on US gun laws.


24 posted on 10/13/2004 6:23:56 AM PDT by Dan from Michigan ("Dead or alive, I got a .45 - and I never miss!!!" - AC/DC - Problem Child)
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To: Tribune7
Both did well, but I give LaPierre a slight edge based on what I think his tactics were. He did what he intended to do. Peters did well too, but she preached more to the choir.

Wayne did two things very well.

1. He tailored his message to the USA. Peters targetted her message more to England. If this debate wasn't going to be aired on PPV and was confined ONLY to England, that would be good, but England doesn't have to be convinced to sign(or not) this treaty. It's the USA, and Americans, through the senate and president. We're the 'swing vote'.

2. He got Peters and the gun grabbers to come out of hiding and debunk the "No one wants to take away your guns" myth. That's what he did best. The moderator there didn't want just talking points. He wanted speficics from both side, and LaPierre said what he IANSA's plan was. The moderator gave a follow-up question to Peters saying "Where would draw the line."

I'd say in England, Peters won. In the US, LaPierre won.

25 posted on 10/13/2004 6:35:39 AM PDT by Dan from Michigan ("Dead or alive, I got a .45 - and I never miss!!!" - AC/DC - Problem Child)
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To: Dan from Michigan
She said there were more guns than cars on earth.

I certainly hope so. I can't think of where I'd put a dozen or so cars, and the insurance bill would really cripple my guns & ammo budget.

Peters doesn't support banning all guns.

BULLSHIITE!!!

She supports licensing, registration, bans on some categories of guns - including high powered, rapid fire, and limits on amount of guns owned.

Licensing is a way to regulate and tax guns nearly out of existence. Registration is a prelude to confiscation. Peters knows this very well and, in fact, it is part of her and her masters' plans. Molon Labe, Beotch!!!!

Said good people do bad things.

Send the Blue Helmets to collect our guns, beotch, then you'll see plenty of bad things. For a few hours or days, anyway; after that, you'll likely be looking at the inside cover of a casket for quite a while.

Peters later said that all semi-autos and handguns should be banned.

Go ahead, ban them. Then try to enforce the ban - YOU, not some kid that you and that evil bastich Soros hired on the backs of honest taxpayers. FMCDH!

No guns should be owned for self-defense reasons.

I'll bet that she'd change her tune if she was gang-raped while some sicko holds a shank to her throat. Of course, based on some of the descriptions above, not even the sickos are going to rape this fugly beotch, but that's neither here nor there.

Repeatedly at different times said that saying good people are seperated from bad people are is only in the movies.

Yet another dimbulb blissninnie. Why can't these people do something useful, like growing flowers or playing Pin the Tail on the Donkey in the middle of the interstate?

Peters said the gun lobby was obstructing global progress.

If she's for it, I'm against it.

Guns aren't needed.

Then why do the police, armed forces and private security forces of evil communistic billionaires and fat, drunken Senators from Assachusetts have them?

Democracy is.

Phuck Democracy, it's just mob rule (or not, depending on whether evil communistic billionaires are pulling the strings). Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is an armed sheep contesting the vote. I'll take Liberty, thank you very much - and if Peters and her ilk try to take mine, they're in for a very rude awakening (before their very unexpected dirt nap).

26 posted on 10/13/2004 8:53:28 AM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: P8riot

Thanks for voting.



This pay-per-view debate will be replayed at the following times


date time title
Oct 12 9:00PM The Gun Debate (Live)
10:30PM The Gun Debate (Replay)
Oct 13 12:00AM The Gun Debate (Replay)
Oct 14 6:30PM The Gun Debate (Replay)
Oct 15 5:30AM The Gun Debate (Replay)
11:00AM The Gun Debate (Replay)
Oct 16 3:30PM The Gun Debate (Replay)
Oct 17 9:30AM The Gun Debate (Replay)
Oct 18 11:00AM The Gun Debate (Replay)
8:00PM The Gun Debate (Replay)
Oct 19 6:30AM The Gun Debate (Replay)
Oct 20 4:30PM The Gun Debate (Replay)
11:00PM The Gun Debate (Replay)



Voting closes at 9am on Thursday 21st, October 2004.

Results will be available from 9 am on Friday the 22nd October 2004 by visiting:
http://www.thegundebate.com


27 posted on 10/13/2004 9:11:41 AM PDT by righthand man (WE'RE SOUTHERN AND PROUD OF IT)
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To: Ancesthntr

Come on. Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel.


28 posted on 10/13/2004 11:59:31 AM PDT by P8riot (A gun is just a substitute for a penis, so when attacked by a mugger one should pull out a..........)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
I want the damn fools we call "politicians" to be worried about an armed citizenry. That was the whole idea and intent behind the 2nd. We see what happens in countries where the leadership is not afraid of the citizenry: Rwanda, Cambodia, Iraq, Sudan, Stalinist Soviet Union, the list goes on and on. This Peters woman is nothing but a handmaiden of Tyranny. She is clearly on the wrong side of history. And Democracy does not guarantee liberty; in fact, every true 'democracy' that ever was failed because the tyranny of the majority is still tyranny.
29 posted on 10/13/2004 12:15:17 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: Dan from Michigan
If the United States Senate ever ratifies this UN gun-grab, that may be the day that we finally see the 'straw that broke the camel's back' and the implementation of Rule .308.
30 posted on 10/13/2004 12:18:41 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: P8riot

I held back because I didn't want to hurt anyone's feewings.


31 posted on 10/13/2004 1:15:50 PM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: Dan from Michigan

It bears worth repeating. "FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!!!!!!"


32 posted on 10/13/2004 1:24:51 PM PDT by Clump
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To: Ancesthntr

I'll cover your six


33 posted on 10/13/2004 1:29:03 PM PDT by P8riot (A gun is just a substitute for a penis, so when attacked by a mugger one should pull out a..........)
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To: Ancesthntr

Hi, I'm from Argentina (South America) & I just could saw part of the debate.
Just because of language matters, I would like to get a complete transcript (the NRA just sale the video)

Do you know if it would be available somewhere ?

Txs in advance. perodriguez@telered.com.ar


34 posted on 10/29/2004 1:16:35 AM PDT by Glock19
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To: All
HEads up and Bump
35 posted on 01/25/2005 9:50:34 AM PST by Dan from Michigan ("We clearly screwed up on the communications," Detroit Mayor Kilpatrick - after caught in a lie.)
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To: All

BUMP for CPAC and Wayne LaPierre's speech.


36 posted on 02/18/2005 10:21:35 PM PST by Dan from Michigan ("It's easy to hide behind a microphone, son" - Coach Mike Ditka)
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To: All

BUMP for CPAC and Wayne LaPierre speech


37 posted on 02/22/2005 11:34:56 AM PST by Dan from Michigan ("There out ta get me! They won't catch me! I'm #@^#@# innocent! They won't break me" - Guns N Roses)
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To: All

Bump for CPAC


38 posted on 02/22/2005 11:36:37 AM PST by Dan from Michigan ("There out ta get me! They won't catch me! I'm #@^#@# innocent! They won't break me" - Guns N Roses)
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To: Dan from Michigan
I met Wayne at a reception after his CPAC speech. He seems like a great guy.

He showed a few clips from the debate at his CPAC speech. That Ms. Peters is one scary not quite human beotch.

39 posted on 02/22/2005 11:46:37 AM PST by NeoCaveman (http://route-82.blogspot.com)
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