Posted on 10/15/2004 5:33:37 PM PDT by RogueIsland
You lose the argument. Whoever invokes Hitler in a discussion automatically loses the argument.
I agree with your byline about giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to a teenager. But I wonder from whence the power you say you are able to give, and I suppose withhold, springs. Our founders felt this grand experiment with our constitutional republic did not usher from the cosmos but from transendance. God, not part of the universe, but separate and distinct from it, and therefore not tied to it by cause and effect. He is not ordered by the first and second laws of thermodynamics. But he did set them in place and you are so ordered. You might consider origins before you dismiss the poster of the previous remarks which you brushed aside with contempt.
My contempt arose from his view that he can be sure as to the correct identity of "God."
The first is among young women having sex outside of marriage and *getting caught.* That represents about 85% of the abortions in the USA.
The second situation involves older women (35-50) who either don't want a "bonus baby" or whose "bonus baby" is handicapped. This represents about 10% of US abortions.
In both cases, the humanity of the baby has *nothing* to do with the woman's intense desire to rid herself of this "burden." I don't agree with this view, but I think that's the fundamental mindset behind legalized abortion.
Javelina believes in the satistics from WHO an arm of the United Nations. I personally would not trust anything that comes out of the UN.
Consider origin. What was in the biginning. Do not allow your symptom obscure you answering the question.
The women who are having abortions in this country are wrong but not stupid. Everybody is aware of adoption. I doubt that there is hardly one woman who is not aware that she could take her child to term and give it up for adoption. Most woman are not so stupid that if they decided to not murder their child they could open up the phone book and find plenty of organizations who would help them. All you need to do is look under adoption in the classifieds and you will often find couples pleading for someone to give their unwanted baby to them all expenses paid.
What exactly are you talking about when you say "we should pursue the alternatives rather than abortion"?
Also this country was founded on justice and liberty for all. What kind of justice is there when someone murders a child with impunity?
No, the only hard facts they have are how many woman end up in hospitals or dead from abortions. They through much convolution extrapolate the number of illegal abortions they think are performed from this. How can they possibly get a clue as to how many are done without having to go to a hospital just from knowing how many end up in one? They admit they really don't know.
You seem like someone who cares about women but as far as the number of women who die or are harmed from legal abortions those who have come out from the abortion industry testify that the numbers are cooked. The women end up in the hospital and they are reported as having an infection or death from infection but not reported as death or infection from abortion. Also the statistics the CDC rely on are often volunteered and the abortion industry is a very crooked, blood thirsty, power hungry, money grabbing, self perpetuating industry in my opinion so why would I believe anything coming out from it? And by the way they do not believe in freedom of choice. They do everything they can to force women into abortions once they have them in their grips. I have been in front of these death mills and seen them drag women in who have decided not to have an abortion at the last minute. They try to "protect" them from talking to anyone who is lovingly offering them an alternative to killing their child. They will take a young person and help her mother drag her in as she screams and cries that she doesn't want an abortion. They see making sure she gets one as their duty.
You are a "modernman" who has lost touch with the past. A person who doesn't learn from history (denying an obvious lesson as to what man kind can revert to when it loses it's perspective on the sanctity of life)is doomed to repeat it. The lessons learned from what happened in Germany should never be forgotten and I believe we are almost there already. The only difference right now is that we still have much of our freedom of speech. May we never keep silent.
"Yes. The evidence suggests that banning abortion will harm or kill more people than it will save. If we can pursue other policies to reduce abortions that will not have adverse effects, we should use these options."
Total crap - you don't believe this, do you? How would outlawing abortion kill more people than aborting them? WTF??
Evidence not only suggests but emphatically states that outlawing abortions will save millions of lives. In fact, illegal abortions stopped killing many WOMEN when penicillin became cheap and available. And women still die from abortion - it's a dangerous procedure.
Many people are pro-"choice" because they are dedicated to the philosophy of casual, irresponsible sex, and since sex often results in pregnancy, the expedient thing is to kill the baby. Simple.
When people are motivated by extreme selfishness, it's easy to hurt others in the pursuit of personal gratification unrestricted by permanent loyalty and marriage commitment. To such people, "other" people just aren't important, so they can be killed, if it suits their pleasure.
One does not preclude the other. You can criminalize abortion and also advocate means of reducing abortions that might be preformed illegally. The first way to reduce abortions is for society to make it clear that it is terribly wrong and not acceptable. So you then will reduce the amount of illegal abortions and cut out all legal abortions. Yes some woman might die attempting an illegal abortion and the child will also die but a woman who takes the life of her child is guilty and deserves to die just like the man who murders his wife deserves the death penalty. In the mean time many more innocent babies will not die and some woman will not be maimed for life and unable to have future children, be more susceptible to breast cancer and have to live with the life long quilt that they have murdered their own child. Also the suffering of the father, grandparents etc. who either have to live with their quilt for advocating the murder or live with the grief of knowing their love one was killed will be alleviated.
The law is a teacher. It is there to teach people as to what is right and wrong as well as to prosecute them when they do wrong. People deserve to know that if they kill their child it is wrong. If the law does not tell them that they risk doing what later they will have to bear all their lives, that they murdered their child. Some people might seem to be fine with it. In my opinion their quilt has been suppressed and it will manifest itself in physical or mental sickness or perversion. Also all of society is diminished by the knowledge that it is guilty of the deaths of the innocent children because it allowed the killing to on with impunity. The respect and knowledge of the sanctity of life is lost which leads to the hardening of the conscience and the acceptance of other killings as society begins to decide who should live and who should not. On a whole the President was right when he spoke about a culture of life. We either have a culture of life or a culture of death. How we view the importance of the least of us, our babies who are at our mercy and deserve our love and protection will be a window into our souls and our humanity.
There are those who believe that constitutional protections are accorded to persons. The logic goes on the assert that personhood begins once the individual is integrated into society. They say this occurs at about five years of age, and therefore parents should have a right to terminate the life of a 2 or 3 year old ad lib. This theory is commonly taught in Harvard, Yale. This logic should appeal to those who by caprice assign an arbitrary time frame from conception to whaatever time frame is convienient to them. So much of the opinion for the butchery is about convienience. I wonder if we should refine the constitutional person and exclude those elderly who are alzheimer afflicted. What about those with mental incapacity. Now we only need to take the small step of redefining mental capacity to include any group who majority rule decides is politically incorrect and politically incoherent. These are not giant evolutionary movements in definitions. The Soviets used to do this to political dissidents. Their remedy often included sulfur injections I.V. This caused hyperthermia... cooked the brain...created mentally defected people (due to high temperature of the central nervous system). Once we get there we can , for the good of all mankind, generously take away the suffering of these poor creatures. We can euphemistically relieve them of their mystery. Remember its for the children. These are the logical next steps we can expect to be witness to over the next 20-30 years. Almost all of what I have briefly stated here has already occurred in various mainstream countries. At least the Rawandans can boast their genicide was for reasoned analysis. They did it for power. We will fool ourselves into believing we are doing it for the betterment of mankind. That will help us sleep better at night knowing we killed people because it was the humane thing to do.
preformed = performed
So?
Especially the "in the past". Should the religious beliefs of the Mayans or ancient Egyptians or Druids be of some import to me?
And what of today? Should I go along with what my neighbor believes if alot of other people do?
What sort of criteria is that?
And in actuality, Christians and Muslims combined outnumber all other religions and athiests combined. Singley, Christianity currently has more adherants than any other belief system.
Of course it is. This is the way you lie to yourself that its not inherently wrong. You start with it being wrong. You then make the trade off that the greater evil is the health of the mother to justify to yourself that some abortions are preferable to some dead mothers. In essense your playing God.
Abortion is the murder of an unborn child. The mother who can justify that in her own mind with her rights to abort if she wants to is going to be jusdged harshly. I understand it but understanding it does not bring agreement. The thought makes me want to weep.
Abortion is a MORAL choice and those without morals or an understanding of right and wrong chose poorly.
Our children are taught that getting pregnant is the worse thing that can happen from unmarried sex.And pregnancy is just another STD.All it takes is a shot to get rid of some STD's.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.