Congress Considering National ID Card

The American Conservative Union ^ | October 18, 2004 | aculistmanager@laptoplobbyist.com

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

 

 

Dear Friend of the ACU:

Kiss your civil liberties and right to privacy goodbye!

Do you believe that you should be compelled to carry a National ID Card that is imprinted with your fingerprint or your DNA imprint or other highly personal and private information?

Do you believe that you should be required to produce this ID card on demand -- when you go to the grocery store or cross state lines or pay your taxes or at the whim of some petty government bureaucrat?

This is not science fiction folks -- nor is it a scene out of a futuristic "B-movie" -- the technology exists and if Congress gets its way -- it's going to be a reality.

Unless -- of course -- you join with me to take a stand today and urge the Senate and House Conference Committee to kill the National ID Card provisions from S.2845 and H.R. 10.

 

Use the hyperlink below and join with me in sending a personalized Blast Fax message to the thirteen key Senators and the nine key House Members who will be considering this legislation.  Tell them that any National ID Card provisions must be stripped from H.R. 10 and S.2845. Tell them that no amount of security is worth turning the United States into a Police State.

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Show Me Your Papers Please

"We beat the Germans in World War II. We don't want to be a show-us-your-papers kind of country."  Those are the words of author David Kopel.

But perhaps Congressman Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) said it best.

"The much-hailed 9/11 Commission report released in July recommends a federal identification card and, worse, a 'larger network of screening points' inside the United States. Does this mean we are to have 'screening points' inside our country where American citizens will be required to 'show their papers' to government officials? It certainly sounds that way!"

Paul goes on to say, "A national identification card, in whatever form it may take, will allow the federal government to inappropriately monitor the movements and transactions of every American. History shows that governments inevitably use the power to monitor the actions of people in harmful ways. Claims that the government will protect the privacy of Americans when implementing a national identification card ring hollow."

I don't know about you -- but the prospect of being told to produce my papers evokes visions of living in the former Soviet Union and -- even now -- I have a hard time believing our Congress is seriously considering it.

 

Use the hyperlink below and join with me in sending a personalized Blast Fax message to the thirteen key Senators and the nine key House Members who will be considering this legislation.  Tell them that any National ID Card provisions must be stripped from H.R. 10 and S.2845. Tell them that no amount of security is worth turning the United States into a Police State.

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What Is Congress Saying?

In case you still don't think National ID Cards are a reality -- Here's what some Members of Congress are saying ...

 

Rep. Mary Bono (R-CA) said, "I think people are going to have to recognize that some of their conveniences are going to be gone...  I'm glad to show my identification where I need to go."
 

Rep. George Gekas (R-Pa.), chairman of the House Immigration Subcommittee, has told the press that "proposals to mandate national ID cards should not be dismissed out of hand."

 

These are REPUBLICANS  -- the folks who are suppose to take our civil liberties seriously!

 

Ron Paul in criticizing the measure said, "Congress has embraced the 9/11 Commission report uncritically since its release in July. Now Congress is rushing to write each 9/11 Commission recommendation into law before the November election."

 

Use the hyperlink below and join with me in sending a personalized Blast Fax message to the thirteen key Senators and the nine key House Members who will be considering this legislation.  Tell them that any National ID Card provisions must be stripped from H.R. 10 and S.2845. Tell them that no amount of security is worth turning the United States into a Police State.

http://www.laptoplobbyist.com/acuid.html

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National ID Cards Have Several Disadvantages

Proponents of the measure say that a National ID Card is essential in the wake of 9-11 and an increased terrorist threat. But that argument is simply a red-herring.

Of the 25 nations that have been the most frequent targets of terrorists attacks, 80 percent of them have a national identification card.

Furthermore, a National ID Card tells law enforcement nothing about a person's intent.  Timothy McVeigh, the D.C. Beltway sniper and a host of other criminals and terrorists would have no problem obtaining a National ID Card.

The program will cost billions of dollars; money that could be spent on tightening border security or beefing up law enforcement.

Identity theft will literally go through the roof.  Many of us have experienced the unfortunate situation of having a credit card or a Social Security number stolen.  Imagine what would happen if someone stole your entire identity.

Is a false panacea worth giving up your civil liberties? 

 

Use the hyperlink below and join with me in sending a personalized Blast Fax message to the thirteen key Senators and the nine key House Members who will be considering this legislation.  Tell them that any National ID Card provisions must be stripped from H.R. 10 and S.2845. Tell them that no amount of security is worth turning the United States into a Police State.

http://www.laptoplobbyist.com/acuid.html

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If the hyperlink does not work, please copy and paste it into the address bar of your browser.

 

 

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[sheltonmac]

My point is it would be easy to fake a passport and a drivers license. But a passport and a national ID would be a bit harder.

Why not just use retinal scans or thumbprints?

[Doctor Stochastic]

What if a moose eats my sister's ID card while I'm in the shower?

[R. Scott]

What can you say?

Optimism born of ignorance?

[R. Scott]

It might be more difficult to fake a National ID – but not impossible. International terrorists would have no problem. Domestic criminals would be deterred a bit if they didn’t have the money. Underage drinkers would have them within months.

[R. Scott]

So you change it every year or two.

A new ID technology every year or two? What would that cost in time and money? Will the technology advance fast enough to allow this, or do we form a National ID Research Center to develop it? How many bureaucrats would be needed just to issue the new IDs every year?

You also think the CIA are the keystone cops. Am I right?

You are wrong – and how does the CIA become involved in a domestic ID program?

[EQAndyBuzz]

So basically you would support the ACLU, you know the Communists who would deem a National ID card to be a violation of your civil rights?

For that matter, shouldn't the Census should also be a violation of our civil rights as well as having a Social Security card? Maybe the SS doesn't really mean Social Security if you get my drift Herr Scott? /sarcasm off

Let me ask you comrade, do you have a social security card? You don't mind showing it on a job application? To prove you are an American and so you can get paid and have taxes taken out by the IRS? Or do you leave it blank and say that it is a violation of your civil rights?

If you or anyone hasn't noticed yet, I am mocking this debate because so far all anyone has come up with are petty leftist excuses as to why a National ID card shouldn't be implemented, when your lives are already in a national database which is called the IRS.

Our lives are being taken away. But not by the IRS, but by massive fraud by elitist socialists whose sole purpose is to convert this country into a utopian society, governed from the UN. And people are drinking the Koolaid and smiling because they do not see the deception.

My point was that a National ID card or a voter registration card based on a Social Security card will either eliminate or drastically reduce such mundane things like dead people and dogs voting for socialists. When you eliminate this you also get a truer picture on what this country really looks like. Activist judges will fall by the wayside, inner cities will start to grow from the ashes because peoples votes will count again, radical groups will diminsh as people get to understand what has been taken from them.

If the government wanted to monitor your every movement, it wouldn't be that difficult. If the government wanted to take away your civil liberties, it would have done so already. We fight every day to preserve our rights. A Republican administration sees to it that we keep our individual freedoms. A card doesn't take away our freedom. What it takes away is the Liberals primary method of stealing elections so that they can force their form of society on us. That is probably the real reason why the ACLU would fight it, under the guise of civil liberties.

IMHO anarchy is around the corner. What we are seeing this election by the left is a last ditch effort to wrest society away from Americans and once again start on the path to governance by elitist socialists. If Kerry wins, there is one thing that will tell you that we are on the brink. That will be the war over our second amendment rights. Take away our right to defend ourselves and you take away our rights, period.

Oh, and for the record, I take offense to being called comrade.

[airborne]

Instead of creating new problems, the government needs to fix current ones.

Enforce the existing laws!

[sheltonmac]

So basically you would support the ACLU, you know the Communists who would deem a National ID card to be a violation of your civil rights?

No, we would support the Constitution, and it does not grant the federal government the authority to implement such a plan.

For that matter, shouldn't the Census should also be a violation of our civil rights as well as having a Social Security card? Maybe the SS doesn't really mean Social Security if you get my drift Herr Scott?

Have you ever even glanced at the Constitution? Article I, Sec. 2 mandates a census (or enumeration) every ten years. And yes, Social Security and the SS card are unconstitutional.

If you or anyone hasn't noticed yet, I am mocking this debate because so far all anyone has come up with are petty leftist excuses as to why a National ID card shouldn't be implemented, when your lives are already in a national database which is called the IRS.

No, you're mocking the principles of limited government and individual freedom for which our forefathers fought and died. Leftist? Please! If the government is allowed to force us to carry a national ID card, then they will be able to force us to present it anywhere at anytime. Again, I ask you, what would you have done to those who fail to comply with your socialist methods? Imprisoned? Shot? A national ID card will be worthless unless there is a penalty for noncompliance.

Our lives are being taken away. But not by the IRS, but by massive fraud by elitist socialists whose sole purpose is to convert this country into a utopian society, governed from the UN. And people are drinking the Koolaid and smiling because they do not see the deception.

So why do you insist on going along with the deception? A national ID card is something I would expect to come from the socialists in the U.N. who want to impose an international income tax.

My point was that a National ID card or a voter registration card based on a Social Security card will either eliminate or drastically reduce such mundane things like dead people and dogs voting for socialists. When you eliminate this you also get a truer picture on what this country really looks like. Activist judges will fall by the wayside, inner cities will start to grow from the ashes because peoples votes will count again, radical groups will diminsh as people get to understand what has been taken from them.

What planet have you been living on? Just look at how the Social Security number has been abused. It was never meant to be an ID number, but now you can't even rent a video without it. Believing that a safe and secure utopia will arise because of a national ID card demonstrates just how much of your mind has been infected by the socialist disease spreading across this country. Let me guess: government school graduate?

If the government wanted to monitor your every movement, it wouldn't be that difficult. If the government wanted to take away your civil liberties, it would have done so already. We fight every day to preserve our rights. A Republican administration sees to it that we keep our individual freedoms. A card doesn't take away our freedom. What it takes away is the Liberals primary method of stealing elections so that they can force their form of society on us. That is probably the real reason why the ACLU would fight it, under the guise of civil liberties.

Your ignorance simply boggles the mind. First of all, the government takes away liberties all the time. One of the most recent examples came in the form of "campaign finance reform." Oh, and in case you didn't know, CFR was passed by a Republican Congress and signed by a Republican president, so don't tell me "a Republican administration sees to it that we keep our individual freedoms."

IMHO anarchy is around the corner. What we are seeing this election by the left is a last ditch effort to wrest society away from Americans and once again start on the path to governance by elitist socialists. If Kerry wins, there is one thing that will tell you that we are on the brink. That will be the war over our second amendment rights. Take away our right to defend ourselves and you take away our rights, period.

When "conservatives" start going along with socialist tactics like implementing a national ID card, it's no wonder society is beginning to crumble. And you're worried about Kerry? What are you doing to protect your liberties right now? Not much, from what I've seen so far.

Oh, and for the record, I take offense to being called comrade.

And I take offense at being tagged and tracked like a wild animal. You can try to force socialism on me all you want, comrade. Just don't expect me to bend over and take it.

[R. Scott]

I do not disapprove of a National ID Card because of civil rights, the stance of the ACLU, the leftist ideology, etc. I have stated my reasons on earlier posts – it will accomplish nothing substantive, it can be counterfeited by those it is said to deter, it will cost too much in time and money.
It is however, Something!!! Anything!!! We have to DO SOMETHING!!!
It is strictly another feel good idea.

[Chemist_Geek]

Your homework is to read up on slippery slope fallacy and come back with a logical, cogent argument against federal I.D. which isn't predicated on what some hypothetical future Administration might do.

[EQAndyBuzz]

I think what it will do is wake people up.

[sheltonmac]

Your homework is to read up on the Constitution and come back with a logical, cogent argument for a federal ID. It's only fair that the burden of proof should be on those forcing this socialist nightmare on us. I'll ask you what I asked EQAndyBuzz: What will the penalty be for those who are unable to present their papers? A national ID card will be worthless unless there is a severe penalty for noncompliance.

[modest proposal]

I will refuse to carry that. Do they think they can get true blue americans to carry that @#$@ around? I don't think so Washington DC.

Get a clue; get a life.

[sheltonmac]

... a logical, cogent argument against federal I.D. which isn't predicated on what some hypothetical future Administration might do.

Why even give them the chance? Why make it easier for them?

[EQAndyBuzz]

You are tagged and tracked like a wild animal. Have you ever been audited? Have you ever had wages garnisheed?

I support the constitution. What I do not support is the abuse of it. The census, which is part of the constitution is abused by the leftists of this country. Same as the vote. By allowing this to happen, you give up your rights.

Problem is people want it both ways. People want to feel comfortable that terrorists and illegal aliens do not infiltrate our borders and at the same time they don't want to be involved. "Let the government worry about it so long as it doesn't inconvenience me." That's the attitude that the left love to hear and they play on it while the populace sleeps.

I heard a funny thing yesterday on the radio. 65% of Afghans voted. Most by coming from miles away and waiting hours on line for the opportunity to cast a vote. In the 2000 US election less than 45% of the people voted. And most of them only had to go a couple of blocks.

OK, enough animosity. This isn't DU. My question to you would be, "so how do we fix this?"

[Chemist_Geek]

Why even give them the chance? Why make it easier for them?

There you go again.

Why give government any power at all? That just makes it easier for them to infringe "on mah libbberty!"

[sheltonmac]

Why give government any power at all?

Why not just give government only those powers enumerated in the Constitution?

[Chemist_Geek]

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

There's your precious "Constituitional enumeration."

[sheltonmac]

My question to you would be, "so how do we fix this?"

Return government to its constitutional limitations. Giving it more power has only resulted in the loss of more freedom. As for fighting terrorism here in the U.S., I would much rather see citizens carrying firearms that national ID cards.

[steve-b]

*** BZZZZZTT *** Sorry; thank you for playing.

The entire basis for the American Constitutional Republic is the construction of safeguards to prevent hypothetical future politicians from perpetrating various abuses. Your assignment is to study the writings of Madison, Hamilton, Jefferson, Franklin, et al and explain why we should believe that Chemist_Geek is smarter than all those old dead white guys.