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8 years for Abu Ghraib soldier (is an outrage.)
CNN.com ^ | 10/21/04 | blueskyline

Posted on 10/21/2004 4:37:37 PM PDT by blueskyline

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The highest-ranking U.S. soldier charged in the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal in Iraq has been sentenced to eight years in prison.

Staff Sgt. Ivan "Chip" Frederick, a U.S. Army reservist from Virginia, also was sentenced Thursday to a forfeiture of pay, a dishonorable discharge and a reduction in rank to private.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abughraib; abughraibsoldier; chip; frederick; ivan; newbie; powerghraib; sentenced; sgt; staff; troll; turningpoint; zot
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I'm outraged at the sentencing of this soldier. Iraqi citizen tapes quote: "Those prisoners at Abu Ghraib are some of Saddam's henchmen who tortured me and others." Nothing should have happened to the soldiers involved - maybe a slap on the wrist but certainly not this prison time. Sweep it under the table if necessary - protect your own. What ever happened to the guy who ratted on them? Where is justice when US soldiers face a longer, sterner punishment than murders? Terrorists are freed from Guantanamo Prison only to return to terrorist activities. Can public pressure help our soldiers (over
1 posted on 10/21/2004 4:37:39 PM PDT by blueskyline
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To: blueskyline

He probably would have been treated more kindly if he'd simply beheaded the Abu Ghraib prisoners. Nobody seems to be outraged when the Muslims do it...


2 posted on 10/21/2004 4:39:34 PM PDT by Prime Choice (The Leftists think they can tax us into "prosperity" and regulate us into "liberty.")
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To: blueskyline

Remind again what Sandy Burglar's sentence was for stealing documents. Oh, that's right. We're still investigating.


3 posted on 10/21/2004 4:39:50 PM PDT by skip_intro
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To: blueskyline

What would be great is if they say they gave him 8 years and then released him and kept it unknown; however, I'm not naive enough to believe that would happen.


4 posted on 10/21/2004 4:41:02 PM PDT by zahal724 (I own a lumber company? Want some wood?)
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To: skip_intro

How long did Gen. jannis get.


5 posted on 10/21/2004 4:41:22 PM PDT by jocko12
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To: blueskyline

He should have just admitted he committed war crimes and get ready for Senate testimony, a Congressional career and eventual Presidential run. Ooops I think someone already played this ruse.


6 posted on 10/21/2004 4:41:35 PM PDT by snooker
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: blueskyline

Is military prison time the full sentence imposed?


8 posted on 10/21/2004 4:42:29 PM PDT by small voice in the wilderness (Quick, act casual. If they sense scorn and ridicule, they'll flee..)
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To: blueskyline
This is not the kind of soldier you want to help. This is the kind of soldier who brings disgrace to his fellows and to his country. Think of the damage this guy did to our image in Iraq, and get your head on straight.
9 posted on 10/21/2004 4:43:12 PM PDT by SubMareener (Become a monthly donor! Free FreeRepublic.com from Quarterly FReepathons!)
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To: blueskyline
Nothing should have happened to the soldiers involved - maybe a slap on the wrist but certainly not this prison time.

He screwed up. You don't abuse or use prisoners in the way these guys did. Lyndie England will get the same thing.

They're eligible for parole, I'm sure, so he won't do eight years. But he screwed up.

10 posted on 10/21/2004 4:44:07 PM PDT by sinkspur ("If you're always talking, I can't get in a word edge-wise." God Himself.)
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To: blueskyline
Harassment - 30 days

Being so freaking stupid as to photograph harassment, thereby embarassing your President and the Defense Secretary and jeopardizing the President's re-election - 95 months and other forfeitures

11 posted on 10/21/2004 4:44:12 PM PDT by PackerBoy (Just my opinion ....)
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To: small voice in the wilderness
Is military prison time the full sentence imposed?

I think it's about 80% before parole.

12 posted on 10/21/2004 4:44:39 PM PDT by bad company (Global test? Damn I forgot to study.)
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To: blueskyline
Can public pressure help our

Public pressure is responsible for the 8 years. If Kerry is elected the same people who blew this all out of proportion will want his release. As we know from Kerry's Viet Nam days, it's fair to punish and slander the military to advance your career and take down a sitting President.

13 posted on 10/21/2004 4:45:12 PM PDT by Dolphy (It's not a plan, it's an echo)
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To: skip_intro

Yaa... what's up with Sandy Berglar's investigation. I'd like to know if that scum bag gets his comuppins.


14 posted on 10/21/2004 4:45:41 PM PDT by Integrityrocks
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To: blueskyline

Americans are the only nationality who "don't take care of their own". No other nationality has been pacified like ours.


15 posted on 10/21/2004 4:46:01 PM PDT by eagle11 (Parents, teach your children to stand up and fight for their Free Republic!)
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To: SubMareener

I find it difficult thinking of what those murderers are doing to their own people and to our people - and to those whose heads were cut off!!! I don't see any justice in our soldier's punishment. 'This kind of soldier' is over there protecting you... cut him some slack.


16 posted on 10/21/2004 4:46:01 PM PDT by blueskyline
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To: blueskyline

The idiot got what he deserved. If they were going to do what they did, they should at least have kept it to themselves and not taken the pictures and then shared them with friends all over the world. Those pictures worsened our position in the Middle East and almost sank Bush's Presidency. Wonder how much "leash lady" is going to get. Maybe her kid will be in High School by the time she gets out.


17 posted on 10/21/2004 4:46:08 PM PDT by Dave S
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To: blueskyline

I feel the same outrage you do.

G&S's Mikado sang a patter song which included the phrase "...let the punishment fit the crime". It doesn't remotely in this case.

I mean, what the heck, hang a pair of panties on his head for a week, make him watch porno, whatever. But that's about all this "crime" deserves.

Face it: this was intended to be the scandal that deposed Dubya. The NYT carried about 48 straight days of Abu Ghraib on its front page. Object: to get Dubya.

I hate it that this Staff Sgt. Reservist is the one on whom the fallout fell.

Bad cess to the NYT and other liberal papers and media for their excess of "indignation" over this incident.


18 posted on 10/21/2004 4:46:33 PM PDT by Ole Okie
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To: SubMareener

Good point! The prison abuse was a disgrace, but I'm outraged at the amount of attention it received in the MSM.


19 posted on 10/21/2004 4:47:07 PM PDT by eagle11 (Parents, teach your children to stand up and fight for their Free Republic!)
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To: zahal724
Look for a silent commutation in about a year after President Bush is re-elected.
20 posted on 10/21/2004 4:47:42 PM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (I'm fresh out of tags. I'll pick some up tomorrow.)
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To: sinkspur
I was really touched by the Iraqi man who said these prisoners were the ones who tortured him in a much more severe manner...still, if America is going to stand against abuse, it must stand strong!
21 posted on 10/21/2004 4:48:45 PM PDT by Woogit (IN GOD I TRUST...NO MATTER WHAT!)
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

I have been hoping the same. Bush re-elected and some pardons...


23 posted on 10/21/2004 4:51:54 PM PDT by blueskyline
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To: oldblackjoe

Panties on the head is hardly torture. Ask Saddam's torturers what real torture is about. Dishonorable discharge. That should have been it.


24 posted on 10/21/2004 4:51:59 PM PDT by Astronaut
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To: jocko12
"How long did Gen. jannis get."

About the same as the 'interrogators' who put the GI up to it.

25 posted on 10/21/2004 4:52:52 PM PDT by ex-snook (Vote for someone who represents your views or your views will be ignored.)
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To: blueskyline

There is an automatic appeal process for the military.


26 posted on 10/21/2004 4:53:00 PM PDT by demlosers ( ONI: “Lieutenant Kerry wasn’t cleared to know what time it was!”)
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To: blueskyline

Im fine with it...


27 posted on 10/21/2004 4:56:05 PM PDT by The Hollywood Conservative
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To: sinkspur

I agree sink spur. I wish teachers who commit statutory
rape with students got the same punishment this guy got.


28 posted on 10/21/2004 4:56:15 PM PDT by Rakkasan1 (Justice of the Piece:Charity is conservative;doing it with someone else's money is liberal.)
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To: blueskyline

You are RIGHT. This is BS.


29 posted on 10/21/2004 4:56:19 PM PDT by Ramonan (Honor does not go out of style.)
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To: oldblackjoe
Yes he was a dumb ass, but he didn't torture anyone...look up humiliation in Websters. There are murderers in our liberal court system that get less than eight.

Wake the hell up
30 posted on 10/21/2004 4:57:02 PM PDT by Hunterb
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To: blueskyline
The guy deserves it. He provided a huge propaganda coup for the enemy, encouraging the Islamofacists to be more aggressive and kill more of us. He placed us all in greater danger.
31 posted on 10/21/2004 4:58:01 PM PDT by Retief
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To: Ole Okie
let the punishment fit the crime". It doesn't remotely in this case.

What do we usually do to US civilian prison guards who abuse their prisoners here? The punishment should be comparable.
32 posted on 10/21/2004 4:58:05 PM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: Astronaut
Here's the problem: You're a soldier and you're told what torture is. You violate those dictates. You do the time. end of story...

Now, do I think a murderer in this country and this soldier deserve the same amount of time?

No 'effin' way!

33 posted on 10/21/2004 4:58:17 PM PDT by Acrobat (Gregoire, Murray, Cantwell, Ross: sounds like the Trotsky bunch put on trial in the USSR in the '20s)
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To: sinkspur

Lyndie England won't get that much...shes a new mom.
How about prosecuting a self admitted WAR CRIME criminal instead!


34 posted on 10/21/2004 4:59:39 PM PDT by NYRaider
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To: blueskyline
The people he abused were not murderers. The policy of the United States is to treat every prisoner humanly. This guy and his fellows violated the trust that was placed in them to follow our rules. Maybe you need to review what you were taught during your military service. Maybe you have forgotten what it means to be an American fighting man.
35 posted on 10/21/2004 5:00:26 PM PDT by SubMareener (Become a monthly donor! Free FreeRepublic.com from Quarterly FReepathons!)
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To: blueskyline
War.

A nasty business.

We did not ask to be in this war. We were attacked. We have the right to defend ourselves.

We embarrassed a few murderers, made them uncomfortable. Hurt their pride.

The old media are the ones who should serve time for this. We have turned on our own, however politically uncorrect they were.

We should hang our heads in shame. We have given in to the enemy.

Perhaps this soldier should have beheaded a few prisoners.

36 posted on 10/21/2004 5:00:31 PM PDT by Do Be (The heart is smarter than the head.)
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To: demlosers
Prisoner abuse is a problem that crops up everywhere there are prisoners. We enforce laws against the abuse. How could we do otherwise? It doesn't rise to the level of war crimes, but this man was guilty. Example made.

As far as higher ups - clearly, there was a vacuum of authority and discipline that allowed this problem to fester. There was poor leadership, but still you have to punish the direct perpetrators of the crime. Most of the time you won't get anything direct on higher-ups. Certainly the "marketplace" of military rank will help: good leaders will be promoted, bad leaders won't advance.

As far as the severity of the sentence, there is no basis for using the beheadings (for example) as mitigating circumstances.

37 posted on 10/21/2004 5:01:49 PM PDT by NutCrackerBoy
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To: ex-snook
"How long did Gen. jannis get."

If she hasn't been less then honorably discharged; she should be; along with the rest of the direct chain of command in that unit.
38 posted on 10/21/2004 5:02:38 PM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: blueskyline
'This kind of soldier' is over there protecting you... cut him some slack.

Bite your tongue!

I am going to assume that you have a sum total of ZERO actual military experience, otherwise you would not be saying such things.

What the bad guys did does not matter one whit.

What matters is the conduct of one that is subject to the UCMJ.

Do you realize that if a military member gets tagged for, say, DUI by civilian authorities that person is going to get whacked twice. Once by the civilians and then by the military.

Fair ? Yes, it is.

Think about what you are saying and who we are.

LVM

39 posted on 10/21/2004 5:03:13 PM PDT by LasVegasMac ("5 times ain't sh!t - My Daddy won here 10 times" DEjr)
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To: blueskyline

I just retired after 22 years; they broke the soldiers (NCO) code of conduct. Sentence seems fair.


40 posted on 10/21/2004 5:06:23 PM PDT by AZhardliner
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To: AZhardliner; SubMareener

Hear, hear!


41 posted on 10/21/2004 5:09:22 PM PDT by wimpycat (John Kerry has a fevah, and the only prescription is "MORE COWBELL".)
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To: eagle11
Americans are the only nationality who "don't take care of their own". No other nationality has been pacified like ours.

Thanks for providing a "laugh break" on a serious thread.

42 posted on 10/21/2004 5:11:08 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: LasVegasMac; blueskyline
Something sounds fishy with this newbie. Trying to cause some discord at FR right before the election?
43 posted on 10/21/2004 5:12:10 PM PDT by codyjacksmom (Attention All Girlie-men...Please don't forget your foo foo's on the way out the door.)
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To: codyjacksmom
This one is not worth bothering with. Why get an Intelligence Oversight violation for this looser?
44 posted on 10/21/2004 5:15:52 PM PDT by SubMareener (Become a monthly donor! Free FreeRepublic.com from Quarterly FReepathons!)
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To: AZhardliner
"I just retired after 22 years; they broke the soldiers (NCO) code of conduct. Sentence seems fair."

As a former MP Company commander I agree with you 100%. That said, the officers under whose watch this occurred are also criminally negligent.

45 posted on 10/21/2004 5:16:55 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack ("We deal in hard calibers and hot lead." - Roland Deschaines)
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To: blueskyline
Sgt. Stupids case was not about what somebody did to somebody else that was worse than what he did. It was about his actions and how they releated to military code. All US soldiers are expected to behave in an honorable manner so as not to bring disgrace upon the service or country. He was dishonorable. He brought disgrace to the service and his country. He was tried and convicted. What is your problem with this?
46 posted on 10/21/2004 5:17:44 PM PDT by crazyhorse691 (I volunteer to instruct JFK on the meaning of a purple heart!!)
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To: PAR35

Americans are conditioned to have an inferiority complex about their country. Look at the messages in the media, schools and the garbage spewed by the Dems. That's what I was refering to....


47 posted on 10/21/2004 5:44:29 PM PDT by eagle11 (Parents, teach your children to stand up and fight for their Free Republic!)
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To: blueskyline

Tell me again how many officers have been in the dock?????


48 posted on 10/21/2004 5:45:39 PM PDT by cynicom (<p)
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To: blueskyline

As with all of these threads at the time, universally the people that think the guards did nothing wrong and should get a slap on the wrist are people basically devoid of military experience and knowledge, and ALL of the ex-military types feel the Gharaib guards should be severely punished and were outraged at what they did.

That should tell you something.


49 posted on 10/21/2004 5:47:07 PM PDT by Strategerist
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To: blueskyline
Of all the individuals involved in the Abu Ghraib mess, do you remember what was special about Staff Sgt. Ivan "Chip" Frederick?

I remember and for months I have been hoping that that SOB would have the book thrown at him.

Frederick was the nephew of Bill Lawson.

Bill Lawson was the uncle that tried to blackmail the U.S. Army into dropping the charges against his nephew that rose out of the Army investigation of the Abu Ghraib incident on the threat of releasing the CD-R full of Abu Ghraib photos that Frederick mailed to him when he came under investigation.

When the U.S. Army refused to cave in to the blackmail, Uncle Bill hooked up with Hackworth, CBS and 60 Minutes to pour the gasoline of the Abu Ghraib photos on the fire of the Iraq War.

Later, Uncle Bill gloated that "the Army could have avoided all of this" if the Army had only caved in to the blackmail instead of following the Rule of Law.

As a result of what Frederick and his family did, the terrorists had a fantastic recruiting tool, the violence against American forces escalated, the Democrats were able to convince a large percentage of the American Sheeple that the war was immoral and every America-hater around the World used Frederick's photos of perversion as the symbol of the American military.

American soldiers and civilians died and the entire U.S. war effort was jeopardized as a direct result of what that family of traitors did.

Frederick deserves every minute of his 8 years in prison.

What goes around, comes around Uncle Bill.

50 posted on 10/21/2004 5:53:26 PM PDT by Polybius
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