Posted on 10/24/2004 11:25:59 AM PDT by Cableguy
http://powerlineblog.com/archives/008287.php
UPDATE: We've gotten quite a bit of mail about this. The original source of the photo is a site called Electoral-Vote.com. A reader forwarded it to us.
One reader says that the directions on the ballot make it even more confusing. Mike Wise, however, thinks the confusion is misplaced:
The candidate/issues info booklet (shown on the left in your picture) is shipped completely separately from the punchcard ballot shown on the right. They do not arrive as shown on your website or attached in any way, and I can't fathom why anyone would line the ballot and the booklet up the way it is shown in order to vote. The instructions given are to punch out the right NUMBER, not try to line them up. Given how much the numbering jumps around all over the ballot, it would be a huge hassle to try to line it up like that. It _is_ confusing the way you show it, but I can't think why anyone would set it up like that to vote...
Posted by Hindrocket at 12:28 PM | TrackBack (9)
Nope. Montgomery County, Ohio's are identical.
You don't understand that the ballot and the punch card are two separate pieces of paper. The person taking the picture didn't "move up" the punch card two notches, or any notches. There are no "notches." All he or she did, apparently, is do his or her best to line up the arrows against the chad numbers.
Can you explain why the order of candidates on the printed ballot would differ from the order of candidates on the punch card?
Will the Pubbies have the b@lls to do the same?
I removed your reply in #40. The Mercury News must be posted as an excerpt only.
Thanks.
This was on before and I noted that the Cleveland Plain Dealer had an aricle with someone from the Board of Elections. They said that the arrows were a problem but that any one who thinks they may have voted wrong can get another ballot. Their first ballot would then be cancelled. They gave the phone number to call.
I couldn't find the absentee ballot sample at the Board of Election's website. But the sample of the regular ballot has no arrows or numbers and the candidates are listed in a different order.
It would help if we knew which city, ward, and precinct this ballot is for. Each is different. I conducted a random sampling of ballots on the Cuyahoga County web site and found that most had Bush/Cheney listed first. I did find one ballot that matched this one: for Cleveland, Ward 4, Precinct F (4-F). The ballot shown on the website did not have the numbers and arrows on it.
Having worked with this type of voting system before, I can say that you can't tell whether fraud has been attempted just by looking at the sample ballot. Each candidate's position is determined before the ballots are printed up and assigned in the software that drives the card counters. In order for position 4 to be counted as a Bush/Cheney vote, position 4 would have to have been assigned within the software AND the chad punched out on the card.
As far as I can tell just by the graphic provided, it appears to me that position 14 has been assigned Bush/Cheney and would line up with the arrow and the hole once the punch card was inserted into the voting table. However, as we do not know the origin of the graphic provided, we cannot determine how original/authentic it is. Since the samples provided on the website are in PDF format AND unprotected (no Acrobat security turned on), they are easy to capture and manipulate on a computer. It took me less than a minute to capture the same area on the ballot and paste it in Photoshop. From there, it is a no brainer to add whatever you want to it, or to erase something that is there and replace it with something else.
This graphic proves nothing by itself.
Be this a valid photo, or not, if one is too stupid to read AND comprehend the instructions that clearly tell you to punch by the number, then you have no business voting in the first place.l
Thanks for the update. I was getting paranoid about potential fraud. It looks like whoever put the arrows clearly messed up and confused people. At least people are on top of this potential problem.
Not only this ballot is confusing but I am sure you have heard of how different states handle voting differently, i.e., some are using computer-based voting machines while others are using the lever-type machines - point being, there is even no consistency across the country as to how voting will be conducted.
Another AP article:
* Absentee voters in the state's most populous county are complaining about a ballot layout that they say might prompt some people to choose the wrong candidate, or none at all. The elections board in traditionally Democratic Cuyahoga County has fielded numerous calls from voters confused about the layout.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/10/20/politics1757EDT0729.DTL
I voted absentee in Ohio also. You don't have to line up the ballot with the book. You just poke the corresponding hole. It's not hard. If you want to vote for GW, in this case you punch 4.
I just did an article search, and there are lots of AP and other ones outlining the problem. So whether the photo is real or not, the problem exists. See my posts above.
What happens if 14 is assigned to Bush, but the number 4 shows up on the printed ballot. Then you punch out 4, not 14. And when voting in person, remember that after the punch card is inserted into the slot, you don't see the numbers on the actual punch card. Nonetheless, you count down four holes from the top and punch that chad rather than the chad opposite the Bush name. How is that vote counted?
Here's a Cleveland Plain Dealer article on the subject:
Local ballot is confusing for some absentee voters
Thursday, October 21, 2004
Kaye Spector
Plain Dealer Reporter
On absentee ballots, it's the numbers - not arrows - that count.
The Cuyahoga County Board of Elections has heard complaints from voters who were tripped up by the booklet that accompanied their absentee ballots. The voters mistakenly thought they should insert the ballot into the booklet, just like at the polling place, then punch out the chad across from the candidate's name.
No, no, no, said Gwen Dillingham, the election board's deputy director. Absentee voters should find the candidate's assigned number next to the name on the booklet, then punch out the corresponding chad on the ballot.
"You don't line them up with an absentee ballot," Dillingham said. "You look for numbers."
The ballots and booklets are used for both absentee voters and the voters at polling booths on Election Day. Complete instructions for absentee voters on how to properly use the ballot are printed on the booklet's cover, Dillingham said.
"We get these calls every year, but if they read the instructions on the front of the book, it's very clear," she said.
Those who voted absentee and think they may have made a mistake can contact the election board's absentee ballot department at 216-443-3231. The board will send out another ballot and cancel the first one. Ohio law gives voters three chances to get it right.
Election officials around the state expect a sharp increase in absentee ballots this year, thanks to heightened interest in the presidential race and the aggressive efforts of political parties and advocacy groups.
In Cuyahoga County, Ohio's most populous county, 75,000 voters have requested absentee ballots so far, Dillingham said.
I voted absentee in Ohio also. You don't have to line up the ballot with the book. You just poke the corresponding hole. It's not hard. If you want to vote for GW, in this case you punch 4.
No specifics but the candidates are often rotated on the ballots so each appears first an equal number of times.
Here is a fun ballot at http://wearabledissent.com/101/floridavote.html
These ballots should be hand counted and voters asked to circle the name of the candidate of their choice if the elections commission will not do this the GOP needs to station people at all the polls, directing voters to do so.
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