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Some questions on provisional ballots in Ohio
Alessandro Fiaschi

Posted on 11/03/2004 4:48:14 AM PST by alessandrofiaschi

Is there any Freeper who has voted by a provisional ballot in Ohio? If "yes", could he explain us a feasible reason why he found his names missing from the rolls? In the end, have you got any idea of the TRUE number of these ballots to be counted?! Thanks!


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: ballot; blackwell; bush; ohio; provisionalballot
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1 posted on 11/03/2004 4:48:14 AM PST by alessandrofiaschi
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To: alessandrofiaschi

http://election.sos.state.oh.us/ProvBallots.htm


2 posted on 11/03/2004 4:48:58 AM PST by craig_eddy
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To: alessandrofiaschi

A lady on Rush yesterday said they couldn't find her registration in Ohio and had her complete a provisional ballot. That's one example. She's a Republican.


3 posted on 11/03/2004 4:49:41 AM PST by GnL
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To: alessandrofiaschi
Welcome to FR today.

Remember, only about 1 in 6 provisional ballots is legit. Most are thrown out.

4 posted on 11/03/2004 4:49:48 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: craig_eddy
I'm not from Ohio, but to add my opinion, I think many people who voted by provisional ballot were not legally allowed to vote. They will be thrown out.
5 posted on 11/03/2004 4:50:37 AM PST by Teslas Pigeon
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To: Teslas Pigeon

The rate of valid ballots is typically < 20%.


6 posted on 11/03/2004 4:51:37 AM PST by craig_eddy
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To: alessandrofiaschi

Watching Fox News this morning they had a the Secretary of State from Ohio who stated that provisional ballots are provided when names do not appear on the registars because of incorrect entries on their registration or they have moved from that particular precinct. He also stated that mathematically, the Kerry camp really cannot come up with the numbers to have Kerry win Ohio. Later in the morning, Fox News via E.D. Hill called Ohio for Bush. Great Victory for democracy!! Next, Hillary...:)


7 posted on 11/03/2004 4:52:35 AM PST by smiley (Watch out Dems! I'm a William F. Buckley Conservative!!)
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To: alessandrofiaschi

Current projections of Provisional Ballots is 145,000 (or less). This means that 100% of those would need to be accepted and 100% would need to be for JfnK. GWB has been reelected!


8 posted on 11/03/2004 4:52:40 AM PST by MassachusettsConservative
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To: craig_eddy

Thanks. Good news!


9 posted on 11/03/2004 4:52:46 AM PST by Teslas Pigeon
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To: craig_eddy

Thank you. So we have surely won, for a simple math:
135149 < 136221. Why Demon-c-rats don't concede?! I think we know the reason very well...

Sincerely,

Alessandro


10 posted on 11/03/2004 4:53:33 AM PST by alessandrofiaschi
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To: craig_eddy

"The rate of valid ballots is typically < 20%."

It was late last night, but I think I remember Ken Blackwell, the Sec. State of Ohio, saying that in the past they had validated about 90% of provisional ballots.

Anyone else remember that interview on Fox?


11 posted on 11/03/2004 4:54:59 AM PST by webstersII
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To: craig_eddy
The rate of valid ballots is typically < 20%

Not what I heard. One new agency said this morning that in the 2000 election there were 100,000 provisional ballots in Ohio and 90% of them were counted.

Can't confirm the validity of that statement, however.

12 posted on 11/03/2004 4:55:03 AM PST by Toskrin (What a world, what a world!)
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To: webstersII

I was there with you--he did say that in the past only 10% were tossed out. HOWEVER, he also did say that he felt the provisionals would break ever so slightly for Bush. In other words, a wash.


13 posted on 11/03/2004 4:56:44 AM PST by SoftballMominVA
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To: Toskrin

Even if every single one of those 90% went to Kerry, it's not enough votes.


14 posted on 11/03/2004 4:56:46 AM PST by craig_eddy
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To: alessandrofiaschi
I'm not from Ohio, but yesterday morning in Arizona a guy went to the polls to vote but they had him recorded as receiving a mail in ballot. He said he didn't have his mail in ballot and the poll worker asked him if he wanted to go home to get it and he claimed he lost it. He still insisted on voting. They gave him a provisional ballot.

One of the ladies in our office got married and forgot to change her registration, she voted on a provisional ballot (republican).

15 posted on 11/03/2004 4:56:55 AM PST by McGavin999 (We have planted the seeds of democracy and watered them with our blood, now let freedom reign)
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To: anniegetyourgun

I guarantee that there will be fraud that will reverse your ratio. I am so sick of this garbage from the freeking communist party. No they are not democrats, they are communists.


16 posted on 11/03/2004 4:58:06 AM PST by Necrovore
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To: alessandrofiaschi
It was stated that approximately 140,000 ballots would be considered, including late absentee ballots (civilian AND military) and provisional. The Ohio Secretary of State said that possibly as many as 30,000 come from the Cleveland area. Assume only 25% are for President Bush (7,500) and should Kerry get 75% he would get the remaining votes (22,500).

Now let's assume the remaining 110,000 are split -- Kerry will try to claim most are Democratic, but in reality half will be the Evangelical Christians voting for Bush. They registered just as many voters as the Democrats in the final weeks. That would give each candidate 55,000 votes.

Net gain would only be 15,000 for Kerry, and NOT ENOUGH to change anything in Ohio!

17 posted on 11/03/2004 4:59:30 AM PST by TommyDale
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To: alessandrofiaschi

you also have to assume there will be some Moveon.org voters who spammed the numbers


18 posted on 11/03/2004 5:11:57 AM PST by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestus globus, inflammare animos)
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To: alessandrofiaschi
I worked as a 'challenger' in Dayton Ohio. We had 402 total votes in my precinct and 20 of those were provisional. The area was inner city which tends to have more people moving around so almost all the provisional ballots were just because people had moved into the precinct. A few were just unexplained absense from the poll book.

My biggest problem was with the absentee ballots. We had a list of those who had gotten an absentee ballot and the procedure was to allow them to cast a 'regular' ballot after a call to the BOE to determine if they had voted. YET..many of the absentee ballots were not yet counted so these people could have voted twice and no one would know.

libby
19 posted on 11/03/2004 5:14:17 AM PST by libbytarian
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To: TommyDale

There are 135,149 provisional ballots in Ohio, and I believe that is now with 100% of precincts reporting the numbers of such ballots. There is nothing at the Sec of State website that indicates these include absentee ballots--I think they mean that many of the provisional ballots were given to persons who also requested absentee ballots but claim they did not receive them or they failed to mail them in on time. The absentee ballots as a whole must number at least 10,000 to 20,000 and they will break heavily for Bush.

Provisional ballots did not exist in 2000, having been created by Congress through the Help America Vote Act of 2002. There is no experience in Ohio dealing with provisional ballots except during the most recent primaries, in which case only those provisional ballots in the contested districts were counted. There is basically no way to gauge how the chips will fall. There is no reliable information on how those were counted but given that these were primary votes, I doubt there were many legal fights over each vote.

Contrary to popular media myth, a significant number (perhaps most) of provisional ballots are not registration errors per se, but involve persons who requested absentee ballots and did not receive them. Because these votes can be checked against the absentee votes that eventually come in, double voting is difficult if not impossible unless the counters are bought (both absentee and provisional ballots are paper and have identifying information on them). This number represents approximately 20% of the provisional ballots, I would imagine. About 10% of these will be thrown out because they are simply liars and are trying to vote twice. This also means that many provisional ballots must remain provisional until the absentee vote deadline (ten days). Knowing the number of provisional ballots given to persons who had requested absentee ballots will tell us whether we have to wait ten days or not. Because there's no way to know this number without looking at the backs of the provisional ballots (where such info is recorded), all the provisional ballots must be at least looked at. The poll watchers should also have fairly accurate tallies, so we should know this number by noon or so. In other words, the world should know the result of this election by noon. Even if the total number of provisional-absentee ballots is great enough to withhold calling the state today, absentees greatly favor Bush overall, therefore the election will be over if that's all Kerry's got to complain about.

Another 20% of provisionals are simply whack-jobs, Naderites, and other assorted dodos who probably have no clue what they're doing. These will be thrown out without dispute (assume that neither party will want to even open provisional ballots by those registered as independent). Though the Kerryites claim they want to count every vote, it clearly isn't in their interest to do so.

A full 20-25% are non-whack jobs, but did screw up their registration of their own accord and their vote will be tossed. These are the ones Kerry will fight tooth and nail for, if the majority are Dems. Most of these will be late or faulty change-of-addresses. Since Dems don't pay rent and get evicted a lot, they change addresses more than the rest of us and these will be primarily Dems. It should not matter.

I would say, at best, 60% of the provisional ballots will be counted without much dispute, and these will, at best, break 60-40 for Kerry in Cleveland and a handful in Cincinnati. More likely is that these will reflect the current vote distribution and will be a wash.

My prediction--Kerry gets a maximum net gain of 25,000 votes, before the absentees are all counted, at which point that number will drop to a max net gain, after all is said and done, of 14,000.


20 posted on 11/03/2004 5:46:47 AM PST by Ilya Mourometz
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