SARIN GAS FOUND IN FALLUJAH

NPR ^ | 11/11/04

[southparkGOP]

You'll need speakers to hear this. Embedded NPR reporter with Bravo Company, 1st Marine Battalion, 3rd Regiment, found suitcase with Sarin nerve gas. Unclear where it came from. In either case, war is justified because WMD have been found, or if it's Al Qaeda's I'd much rather it brought to Iraq to fight our military than brought to New York.

http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=4164561

[cake_crumb]

"What saved us is they did not store it properly or handle it properly."

Yep

The Duelfer report is NOT disinfo. What he's trying to stress if that Saddam was using propaganda to end sanctions so he could restart that WMD program, then the buggers...and bugs....would have been fresh and ready to use against us.

[fooman]

The summary skips actual mention of the sarin/mustard shells.

That was my point. If freepers think there were know shells, no wonder most sheeple do too.

[Flamenco Lady]

Bump

[fooman]

Edit:

The summary skips actual mention of the sarin/mustard shells.

That was my point. If freepers think there were NO shells, no wonder most sheeple do too.

[Indie]

A briefcase with 4 package..10 vials each ..of sarin nerve gas!!

[cake_crumb]

But there WERE shells. The reports appear fragmentary because they're writtn from the perspective and particuklar compartment of investigation of each team or inspector.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"It was planted there by the Jews!"

Mr. Buchanan I presume?

:-)

[George W. Bush]

I guess you also discount Yasin going to Iraq to collect his salary, Salmon Pak and Saddam's harboring of Abu Nidal and Abu Abbas.

It appears you enjoy making up off-topic stuff to try to attack people with. I never said any of those things on this or any other thread.

But I guess it's easier to manufacture baseless accusations against people than to just admit this is another baseless WMD report. Like all the others turned out to be.

[George W. Bush]

And I think Rummy will stay on for a second Bush term.

I'd heard he might go. But looking at how much he enjoyed that press conference the other day, I think he ain't goin' anywhere. He's a good SoD, he's got a good plan to modernize and transform the American military and he's won two wars for the prez.

So, why should he go anywhere if he's in good health? I can't think of a reason. Certainly, I hope he stays. I'd miss his handling of the press. But they're trained like puppies these days around him.

You know, he would have made a good president himself. Much like Cheney. They have the right stuff for executive leadership.

[cake_crumb]

OH CRAP it IS in the Duelfer report...incorrect amounts of chemicals used to make the mustard gas bombs though and they were useless. I don't suppose sceptics care about attempts that failed.

[George W. Bush]

Now for what you didn't ask: the finding or not of WMD only justifies our actions - or not - in the eyes of the media and those who prefer spin to fact. As far as the president stated many times, beginning on September 20 2001, we are justifed many times over in ending the Gulf War. Finally. IMO, the administration didn't communicate well enough the many reasons that the world needed to be put out of Saddam's misery. Wmd were only one of many reasons

Legally, you're right. Saddam was in violation of the U.N. resolutions which were, in effect, a peace treaty between America and Britain and Iraq.

However, where the whole WMD thing comes in is when Powell went to the U.N. alleging all these WMD violations and much of the public scare over WMD. If it were the case, as you are saying, that WMD were irrelevant, then why did we press the case against Saddam on WMD grounds at the U.N.? There's no good answer to that, is there? So this is impression on the part of the public, here and in Europe, is not as much the creation of the media as simply observing the proceedings at the U.N.

You may recall that I absolutely opposed ever going to the U.N. And I thought that if Blair's price was going to the U.N. that we should drop Britain. In the end, I think I was right. It delayed the invasion by months and made a considerable hardship for our troops.

Be happy. Saddam's in prison and his lap puppy is finally dead.

Well, it's too nice a prison for the likes of him. But I suppose we have to be humane until the Iraqis execute him.

[fooman]

No, its illustrative of a large pattern of terrorist/WMD links to Saddam. I am not interested in breaking the 11th commandment.

You are buried in info on this page, from multiple posters.

Volume III, page 99. CIA web site. Please look it up for yourself.

TDIDS

[Boot Hill]

8	“...war is justified because WMD have been found...”

The invasion of Iraq is justified on the grounds of Saddam's support and participation in international terrorism, irrespective of whether WMD are ever found. The existence or non-existence of WMD in Iraq is just a leftist red herring. Don't fall for it.

--Boot Hill

[fooman]

By the standard that some people want on this thread, its ok to rob a bank and even discharge a weapon, as long as the shots were blanks. But then the test kits may actually be lethal. ...


Which is why we went into Fallujah with chem suits.

[Dustbunny]

SARIN GAS FOUND IN FALLUJAH

Just part of Saddam's stash in Syria.

[George W. Bush]

Well, NPR is a puny anemic joke of a investigatory news organization. So if the mention of WMD somehow slipped through their screening, I doubt there's too much being covered up.

I suspect NPR had some starry-eyed boy reporter over there who thought he was going to have the scoop of the century.

I'm not sure if people here understand just what a large amount of sarin it takes for an attack. A single suitcase couldn't kill many unless you confined them in a building or something.

A whole suitcase of sarin perfectly disbursed might cover a 4-8 block area with significant casualties among unprotected population. If our troops have their gas equipment and their atropine, you'd have some sick people working at diminished capacity but probably only a few hundred unless they were confined in, for instance, a hospital or a headquarters or mustering point.

Don't get me wrong, sarin is nasty and it kills. But it's not the same as more modern and far more deadly agents like VX or tabun. VX, for instance, is about 10 times more deadly and lasts about 30-40 times longer in the open, a much more deadly weapon.

Back when the U.S. stockpiled sarin, we manufactured it for years at a rate of 10 tens a day in order to have something that could be effective against large Soviet troop and tank formations. Maybe that helps to put this suitcase, if it even exists, in perspective. During the two World Wars, the idea was that you'd use artillery to lay down a giant cloud of this stuff blowing toward your enemy, timing it so that the agent wouldn't dissipate into the air too quickly and so that you wouldn't hit your own troops. Sarin, being almost the oldest gas warfare agent, is along these same lines. More modern stuff like VX takes far less and is more persistent but has greater potential to be a hazard to your own troops because it lasts so much longer.

Compare a suitcase to the size of the sarin attack on the Tokyo subway. They had 3 guys, each with 2-3 large plastic bags of sarin liquid. And they released it in a subway, a confined area. And they still only killed 11 but made 5500 sick. And the Japanese civilians didn't have gas masks and suits and atropine to protect them. Not to mention trained military medics at hand to deal with the problems of gas victims.

It takes a lot of sarin and/or a confined area to use it or it won't have the kind of effect we associate with WMD.

[George W. Bush]

You are buried in info on this page, from multiple posters. Volume III, page 99. CIA web site. Please look it up for yourself.

I'm not that interested in what the CIA says now, after the fact. Nor am I interested in what the 9/11 Commission says.

I'm interested in what the president, NSA, SoD and SoS said then, what happened and what they say now.

As far as 'buried in info', it's not true. Or you wouldn't have to drag merely suggestive info from an agency report that is trying to clear its name after a huge mistake in its reporting.

When (if) we find the WMD, there will be no question. We'll have a quantity of it that is undeniable. Just like with Libya's WMD program, all of which is now in our custody and can be inspected and verified at any time by the U.N.

When there's real proof, we'll know it.

[fooman]

It is true. But as you admit you not interested in looking at it. Thats fine.

But it shows how we allow the MSM to define truth. And the real question is WHERE did the wmd go? If not syria, IRAN? Jordan?

[techcor]

What is also scary is that Iraq under the Clinton Administration and the U.N.'s "watchful" eye were being allowed to develop "laser isotope separation" technique that would have allowed them to separate the uranium into it's different isotopes so efficiently that we wouldn't have been able to detect their facility. Do a Google search on "laser isotope separation" and Iraq.

[George W. Bush]

But as you admit you not interested in looking at it.

I am only interested in what publicly elected officials and Senate-confirmed cabinet level officeholders say about it.

I'll believe it when they go on the record and have physical proof. Or a strong enough trail to show what happened to it. And so far, we have nothing like that from any of the agencies or executive branch.