Haha, OK, I will quit wasting your time with cliches, I want to carry on a proper "arguement." Yeah, that was a silly cheap shot, I know, but you are annoying me a little here.
Please tell me the extent of YOUR reading on the subject. I am coming to this problem from the standpoint of a moderately well informed citizen, I can't claim to be an expert on the subject at all. I don't think that I have the problem backwards, however. It seems to me that western imperialism in the region is the primary factor that has created the extreme antipathy towards us in the region, rather than our "freedoms" here in the US. Not saying that they like our system of government (though aparently many do, since they keep coming here!), but clearly it is western interference in the region that has brought us to the present day conflict. As far as US being the Great Satan, and Isreal being the Little Satan, I would be that is because the average Palestinian/Arab sees Isreal as a puppet state of the US. It still comes down to they hate us because we helped to create a Jewish homeland (and for the various other acts in the region, there are lots).
So where does that leave us? We can't stop supporting Isreal, obviously. What we need to fight the war on terror is to eliminate the extremists, but almost more importantly, to support the moderates. And yes, there are moderate Muslims. To do this, we do need to help establish a relatively sound peace in Palestine, one that moderate muslims can at least accept, if not agree with. We also need to continue to pursue Pres. Bush's path in Iraq, and hope and pray that through a lot of hard work we can build a stable islamic Democracy, which can show the way for the rest of the region.
And if I'm going to carry on a proper argument with you, it would be nice if you would present a position of your own, instead of just attacking mine.
I have no doubt I am. People hate to have their presumptions challenged. And they are your presumptions as I will elaborate on as this progresses.
As far as my reading goes, of late I've been through "Crisis of Islam" by Bernard Lewis...the acknowleged western authority on Islam, "What's So Great About America," by Dinesh D'Sousa, "Hatred's Kingdom," by Dore Gold, "The End to Evil," by Pearl and Frum, and many hours of lectures by both apologists and critics.
You consider yourself moderately well informed, but by what standard do you draw that conclusion? A third grade student may consider himself "good at math" without ever even knowing what the word "Algebra" means. You won't claim to be an expert on the current subject, but where do you qualify your opinions as largely conjecture? It's not that you don't think you have the problem backwards, it's that you don't like to think you have the problem backwards.
Let's take a small example. You cite "western imperialism" as a primary factor for the extreme antipathy towards us. Would you be so kind as to define exactly what you are calling "western imperialism?" Empires have very definte characteristics, none of which we exhibit. If a duck doesn't walk, talk, or swim like a duck, what would it take for you to admit the emperor has no clothes? (excuse the mixed metaphor)
Furthermore, you dismiss the "freedoms" argument because you don't appreciate it's implications. The reason they call us "the great satan" is because satan is a tempter, and that is exactly how they are applying the term to us, and to a lesser extent, Israel.
...it still comes down to they hate us because we helped to create a Jewish homeland (and for the various other acts in the region, there are lots).
You are ignorant of history. Believe it or not, the primary supporter at the creation of Israel was the Soviet Union. It was only after Stalin figured out England was no longer the primary western power, but rather America, that the USSR withdrew it's support for the problematic little British mandate. We didn't start substantive support for Israel until the 60s. If you read historians instead of watching TV you'd know that.
I have to break for a few hours, but I'll finish my reply with my next post.
Quite a way from where you think it leaves us. You see Islam teaches it's adherents that faithful practice will result in mastery over all opponents. This has not been the case for over three hundred years. Indeed, they have fallen further and further behind the west, so moslems have been forced to conclude their practice has been unworthy, or their religion is false. (Their theology has run smack into an irreconcilable difference with reality.) For a religion that executes dissidents, which do you think they've choosen?
To do this, we do need to help establish a relatively sound peace in Palestine, one that moderate muslims can at least accept, if not agree with.
You say the words, but do you know what they mean? What is Israel doings to them that inflames even the moderates? Israel absorbed all the jews fleeing the arab countries. Why do the arab countries refuse to absorb the palestinians? If the arab states are so distressed by the palestinian plight, why are they forcibly denying the same grievances for the Kurds?
it would be nice if you would present a position of your own, instead of just attacking mine.
I'm not attacking your position. I'm attacking your presumption. Does it make any sense to attempt to explain a quadratic equation to our third grader who keeps insisting "you can't do math with letters!"