Posted on 11/25/2004 1:09:33 AM PST by Cutterjohnmhb
As President Vladimir Putin and the new European Commission chiefs gather for a summit on Thursday in The Hague, disagreements over the Ukrainian election cast a dark cloud over their first meeting. Putin may have been planning to cash in the chips Russia earned by ratifying the Kyoto Protocol -- indeed, welcoming Russia's support for the environmental treaty was at the top of a to-do list for the summit as recently as Monday, according to an EU press release. Instead, it looks more likely Moscow will be playing defense.
Russia's relationship with Europe -- and with America -- was already under pressure, ever since Putin unveiled plans to do away with elections for governors and single-mandate Duma deputies. Even U.S. President George Bush took Putin aside last week at a summit in Chile to express concerns about the electoral changes. Putin reportedly offered a long, rambling response that reached back into Russian history and the country's experience with Stalinism. It's not yet clear how Bush (who is not, incidentally, a history buff) took it.
(Excerpt) Read more at themoscowtimes.com ...
You're tellin' me!
Putin, whom I like (I thought), is headed in the absolute wrong direction. He's had a ton of tough problems for quite a while, which may have caused him to secure his personal control, unlawfully, so that the several critical situations may be addressed, in his opinion, in the best possible way. There is logic to that, but putting the world on edge.
Now he's sent Russian troops into the Ukraine (Kiev), to forcefully support a regime that legitimately lost a democratically run election. Besides just being wrong, the only chance for Putin to survive politically seems to be in reestablishing some resemblance of the old USSR. That would insure his leadership, but not much else.
There are plenty of atom bombs over there, still. Political instability can be a dangerous condition. It just looks bad, to me, at the moment.
I wonder what John Kerry (who is not, incidentally, the president-elect), thinks of this? Was John Kerry a history buff? I wonder if history buffs of the future will remember John Kerry.
Ping
does anybody REALLY beleive Putin will in any way "honor" Kyoto?!!!!
<< It's not yet clear how Bush (who is not, incidentally, a history buff) ..... >>
Incidently, on whose, incidently, authority is he not, incidentally, a history buff, incidently?
The Moscow Times.com -- Opinion / Editorial
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/11/25/005.html
Thursday, November 25, 2004. Page 8.
Putin Can't Have It Both Ways
Editorial
As President Vladimir Putin and the new European Commission chiefs gather for a summit on Thursday in The Hague, disagreements over the Ukrainian election cast a dark cloud over their first meeting. Putin may have been planning to cash in the chips Russia earned by ratifying the Kyoto Protocol -- indeed, welcoming Russia's support for the environmental treaty was at the top of a to-do list for the summit as recently as Monday, according to an EU press release. Instead, it looks more likely Moscow will be playing defense.
Russia's relationship with Europe -- and with America -- was already under pressure, ever since Putin unveiled plans to do away with elections for governors and single-mandate Duma deputies. Even U.S. President George Bush took Putin aside last week at a summit in Chile to express concerns about the electoral changes. Putin reportedly offered a long, rambling response that reached back into Russian history and the country's experience with Stalinism. It's not yet clear how Bush (who is not, incidentally, a history buff) took it.
Regardless, Putin's stamp of approval on an election that has been uniformly criticized in the West won't help. In its relations with Europe and the United States, Russia has long been walking a tightrope: Western concerns over Russian democracy, Chechnya and Yukos were leveraged against improving economic ties, measured cooperation in the war on terror, cheery rhetoric, and a few other odds and ends like the Kyoto Protocol. But the Ukrainian fiasco, coming after Putin's proposals for changes to Russia's electoral system, reveals a widening gap between Russia and Western democracies.
Plainly put, Putin can't have it both ways. A patina of support for democracy isn't going to cut it in Europe -- not over the long term, at least. Moscow will be hard pressed to foster productive political ties with Brussels and Washington if it is perceived to be trampling democracy at home and abroad.
Putin should realize that his biggest geopolitical tool, Europe's dependence on Russian energy supplies, does not give him a carte blanche to meddle in traditional spheres of influence.
No matter whom Ukrainian voters actually chose as their president, Moscow cannot expect to win friends and wield its influence by continuing to insist that evidence of widespread fraud in the Ukrainian poll is inconsequential.
Russia should look hard at the situation in Ukraine and use the summit as a springboard for discussion of a peaceful, negotiated settlement to the standoff. It's not too late to turn a crisis into an opportunity. But that window is closing fast.
Putin is a hands on kind of guy.... Even in his early KGB days, he is reported to have actually murdered people under interrogoration with his bare hands. Now this is a guy we can understand, so lets deal with him in a very pragmatic fashion.
You mean, Putin killed people with his bare hands when he was working against Western interests as a KGB officer, so he really is the kind of guy we can trust and happily work with ?
praying for the Ukrainians bump
There you have it, Europe caving in again, for money. By their behavior they have effectively told Putin he can meddle all he wants.
Why, one could wonder? In many if not the most of European countries there is a party system of voting to the Parlament and the local executives are nominated by the central government!
I wonder if in the next step EU starts demands that the exit polls run by the "impartial" EU observers should replace the secret ballot as the way of electing leaders in Russia (as it seems to be expected for Ukraine).
First - there were a few units PROTECTING the government from the "peaceful demonstrators" takeover. The technique of Sorosian/Otpor coup d'etat:
1. question the election result (with biased polls or media claims) 2. bring thousands of demonstrators and gather them around the main government buildings 3. intimidate police with the future prosecution and barge inside 4. push out government officials and replace them with your own. 5. Western governments and media proclaim the victory of "democracy" and legitimize the coup.Few elite Russian troops could disrupt the steps 3/4.
Second, since when the exit polls run by "impartial" politically correct observers yield correct estimate of the SECRET ballot, especially among the people used to present PC appearance in public?
Since when?
Third, other powers like US do not see anything anti-democratic in providing body guards to the client leaders like Karzai, Alawi, or Saakashvili .
Do not miss this:
Velevet Revolution, USA
Just wait when Hillary runs for the office.
errr.... how?
can you point out which event during this whole fiasco would point to that conclusion?
or do you just use rabid anti-europeanism as a substitute for having a reasoned, researched opinion?
Using Oil for Food, as a way to both acquire fuel and bolster their trade balances selling weapons to Saddam while stiffing us in the UN over Iraq, passes as a precedent. Their unwillingness to resolve the Balkans on their own tab passes as well. Should I go on about Africa? The continent is populated with nations unwilling to shoulder their own security responsibilities, much less carry their weight when it comes to the rest of the planet.
Insofar as "rabid anti-europeanism" is concerned, Western Europe's behavior while the American taxpayer borrowed money from them to fund their defense against the Soviet Union, particularly when Reagan installed Pershing missiles in Germany, demonstrates that label of "rabid" belongs on the other side of the pond, although perhaps "craven" is a better word.
I'll eat every word if they show the balls to refrain from buying Russian energy until Putin relents.
Putin is a peace of shit. Unfortunately few people in the west realize it.
if only you had displayed such reason when making your original post.
the EU, for the record, has pretty much mirrored US policy on ukraine, both in a 'before' and 'after' manner. you couldn't slip a credit card between the two positions.
we'll proclaim our moral highground with regards to putin and russian oil/gas, when you do the same over the islamic fundamentalists and saudi oil.
pretty much any attempt by western europe to increase its expeditionary military capability is howled at by the US, you can't have it both ways.
do you remember lend-lease? we're fighting for our survival and you lot are counting the cash. so don't get too sanctimonious.
the ivory tower tends not to be so comfortable when you have to sit on the spike.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.