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To: Proud_texan; MissAmericanPie; OOPisforLiberals; Biblical Proportions
I'm no theologian, either, but I have a few thoughts on the subject that might be lend some value to the discussion. One of my deeply held beliefs seems applicable here, and since there is a specific quote on the subject, I'll paraphrase it as I understand it first, and leave the quote for you to peruse.

Paraphrasing:
God's plan is to reform the sinner. If the his punishment here on earth hasn't sucessfully reformed him, the good man's heaven would be a hell to the sinner. If a man doesn't know purity and affection on earth, he cannot find bliss and comfort in the company of God, who is Truth and Love, simply by kicking the bucket. You have to suffer until you cease to love sin. Justice demands repentance, and repentance gains Go'ds forgiveness.

And the quote:
"The design of Love is to reform the sinner. If the sinner's punishment here has been insufficient to reform him, the good man's heaven would be a hell to the sinner. They, who know not purity and affection by experience, can never find bliss in the blessed company of Truth and Love simply through translation into another sphere. Divine Science reveals the necessity of sufficient suffering, either before or after death, to quench the love of sin. To remit the penalty due for sin, would be for Truth to pardon error. Escape from punishment is not in accordance with God's government, since justice is the handmaid of mercy."
-Science and Health with Key to the Scriptues, by Mary Baker Eddy

That's a win win as far as I can see. So, answering the title of the thread, no, I don't think it is ok to wish someone is in hell, but if they are, it is to their benefit. Moreover, corrective action certainly does 'have a place in the universe of a loving God.' How else could we learn?
41 posted on 11/30/2004 1:40:33 AM PST by NationSoConceived ("Truth bestows no pardon upon error, but wipes it out in the most effectual manner." - M.B.E.)
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To: NationSoConceived

I'm no theologian, either, but I have a few thoughts on the subject that might lend some value to the discussion. One of my deeply held beliefs seems applicable here, and since there are specific quotes on the subject, I won't have to paraphrase it. I'll leave the quotes for you to peruse.

Jesus spoke a lot about hell, in fact He spoke more about hell then He did heaven. For starters, Jesus paralleled the two in Matthew 10:28 Jesus says: "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul, but rather fear Him which is able to DESTROY both soul and body in hell." The Greek word "apollumi," which comes from the Greek word "apo" and "olethros" means, to "destroy fully, to perish or lose." Now when one reads that they automatically assume under their 21st century thinking that it means that the soul of the unsaved person ceases to exist. That is not the case however. Consider this analogy. A housewife in her duties for the day changes a light bulb and as she is changing it she drops it on the floor and it shatters. Now the bulb as been "destroyed" and its normal function has ceased, but it has not been "annihilated" by any means. The shards of glass and the filament are still there. The bulb has been destroyed but not annihilated. The next word in question is the Greek "geenna," translated "hell." "Gehenna" was a perpetually smoldering garbage dump outside of Jerusalem and the rabbis of that day threatened the unbelievers with Gehenna. Jesus however, stated that those who rejected God’s offer of salvation would participate in everlasting Gehenna. (Matthew 18:8, 25:41,46) These two fates are also linked together in John 3:36 where it is written: " He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him." In that text we clearly see that those who believe will attain everlasting life and those who believe not will receive the everlasting wrath of God. The same Greek word, "aionios" that we covered earlier, is used in 1 John 5:11, 13. It indicates something that is perpetual or never-ending. Jesus mentioned hell in many other passages such as: Matthew 5:22,29-30, 11:23,16:18,18:9,23:15,23:33, Mark 9:43,45,47, Luke 10:15,12:5,16:23, and Revelation 1:18. The point is really pretty clear as far as I am concerned.

In 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 it is readily displayed that those who "obey not the gospel" will be "punished with everlasting destruction." Again, the Greek "aionios" is used. "Olethros," translated "destruction" means "to ruin, a prolonged from, death and punishment." A soul that is annihilated, or does not exist cannot and could not be punished in any sense. The point is very clear that those who reject Christ will take part in this punishment. Don’t forget the light bulb analogy.

We can tie in John 3:36 and Revelation 20:10 right here. As was stated earlier, the former indicates eternal punishment for unbelievers. Revelation 20:10 states: "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the ‘lake of fire and brimstone…" We can also tie in Revelation 14:10 and Romans 2:8-9 into this. "He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone…But to them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth…tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil…" It is apparent that those who deny the truth will be consigned to everlasting "gehenna" and be "tormented" day and night for eternity. The Greek "meno," translated "abide" means, "to stay (in a given place, state, relation, or expectancy.)" The Greek "basanizo," translated "tormented" means, "to torture, pain toil, torment, toss and/or vex." You cannot vex or torment something that ceases to exist. In John 3:16 Jesus says, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not PERISH, but have everlasting life." The Greek word that is translated "perish" is "apollumi." We have already gone over what that word means. You cannot "perish" in heaven.

Lastly, the meaning is very clear when one digs into the Greek. In light of the fact that Jesus and other Scriptures in general, speak of everlasting life and contempt in the same breath. (1 John 2:22-23) It is utterly impossible to reject the doctrine of eternal banishment from God and still hold to the same doctrine of eternal life. You cannot have one without the other.


43 posted on 11/30/2004 2:11:35 AM PST by Biblical Proportions
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To: NationSoConceived

Very well said.


61 posted on 11/30/2004 6:25:56 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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