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Hunter, Sensenbrenner Hold Line: Military & Intel, Illegal Aliens & Driver's Licenses
HUMAN EVENTS ^ | Dec 3, 2004 | HUMAN EVENTS

Posted on 12/03/2004 9:35:08 AM PST by Ed Current

It could happen any day now: A U.S. military unit heads into an urban combat zone in Iraq's Sunni Triangle. Its members believe they know where Abu Musab Zarqawi is hiding. Their mission is to capture or kill the most murderous terrorist this side of Osama bin Laden.

Their chance of succeeding--and getting back alive--will be enhanced by accurate and timely intelligence fed to them from overhead satellites.

Question: Who should control those satellites?

Should it be the military commanders of the troops heading into combat? Or should it be a civilian bureaucrat--removed from the military chain of command--sitting in a velvet-draped office in Washington, D.C.?

Right now, the military controls the spy satellites that collect "tactical" intelligence for use in combat. Meanwhile, the Central Intelligence Agency uses these very same satellites for collecting "strategic" intelligence (about things like those suspected Iraqi weapons-of-mass-destruction stockpiles that the CIA--while relying on the satellites--did not recruit a single Iraqi spy to track down and verify on the ground).

Licensed Hijackers

The National Security Agency, which intercepts, decodes and translates communications, the National Reconaissance Office, which operates the surveillance satellites themselves, and the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, which analyzes and integrates the data gathered into maps and other combat-usable applications, are all part of the Department of Defense. Their budget requests are generated by the military, and their chain of command runs from the commanders in the field, through the secretary of Defense, to the commander in chief in the White House.

Liberal Republican Sen. Susan Collins of Maine, the chairman of the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee, wants to take authority over these satellites away from the military commanders and give it to a newly minted civilian bureaucrat, known as the National Intelligence Director, who will have ultimate administrative authority over all intelligence operations both military and civilian. Sen. Joe Lieberman (D.-Conn.), the ranking Democrat on the committee, wants to do that, too.

House Armed Services Chairman Duncan Hunter (R.-Calif.) is standing up for American warriors in the field by standing in the way of Susan Collins and Joe Lieberman.

Hunter is right. Collins and Lieberman are wrong. This is the main conflict that has held up the "intelligence reform" bill that Congress is currently considering in response to the report of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States.

Now, consider another case. This one, sadly, already came to pass:

Nineteen al Qaeda terrorists board four U.S. jetliners. They identify themselves to the airlines using some of the 63 separate driver's licenses that had been issued to them by various U.S. states--and, in some instances, which they had secured with the help of illegal aliens who had already learned how to manipulate the lax practices of state departments of motor vehicles.

The terrorists hijack the jets and crash them into the twin towers at the World Trade Center in New York, the Pentagon in Northern Virginia, and a field in Western Pennsylvania. They murder more than 3,000 people.

In response to these attacks, thousands of U.S. troops are deployed to Afghanistan to root out the terrorist bosses of these calculated killers. A global war on terror is launched. Many billions of dollars are spent. Many brave, young U.S. fighters are killed or wounded in battle.

Almost three years after the September 11, 2001, attacks, a special federal commission set up to study why the U.S. was so vulnerable recommends that the federal government "set standards for the issuance of . . . driver's licenses."

Never mind that it took three years and a panel of muckity-mucks to arrive at this simple, commonsense application of the federal government's core constitutional function of securing the nation against foreign enemies and providing laws to regulate the immigration and naturalization of aliens. The fact is: The recommendation has not yet been implemented.

If another set of al Qaeda killers were to enter the United States this morning--this time walking illegally across the Mexican or Canadian border--many U.S. states would still give them driver's licenses.

This is another conflict holding up the bill in response to the commission's recommendations. House Judiciary Chairman James Sensenbrenner (R.-Wis.) is insisting that the bill actually carry out the commission's recommendation on setting national standards for driver's licenses. The House has proposed language that would effectively bar states from giving licenses to illegal aliens.

Susan Collins and Joe Lieberman are against this, too.

The majority of the Republicans in the House support the principled stand Hunter and Sensenbrenner have taken on the bill. House Speaker Dennis Hastert two weeks ago refused to bring a bill to a vote without the support of these two key chairmen. Liberals in the House, the Senate and the establishment press want to force Hunter and Sensenbrenner to surrender. But these two conservatives are standing up for America. President Bush should stand with them and insist that Joe Lieberman and Susan Collins surrender.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: aliens; congress; duncanhunter; immigrantlist; immigration; intelligencebill; intelligencereform; sensenbrenner
Statement Professor Kris W. Kobach, Associate Professor Of Law, University Of Missouri Kansas City

House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Immigration, Border Security, and Claims, Committee on the Judiciary, Washington, DC.

H.R. 2671, the Clear Law Enforcement for Criminal Alien Removal Act of 2003 H.R. 2671

OCTOBER 1, 2003

New Section 114-The Issuance of Driver's Licenses to Illegal Aliens. As the Committee is no doubt aware, the issuance of driver's licenses to illegal aliens by some states jeopardizes immigration law enforcement, general law enforcement, and national security. The driver's license effectively serves as the basic identity document in America today. It is a de facto national identity card issued by more than 50 different jurisdictions. Driver's licenses allow illegal aliens to operate with ease in American society and escape the scrutiny that might otherwise occur in routine law enforcement encounters. On our northern border the driver's license operates as an effective substitute for a U.S. passport, allowing an alien who is persuasive in falsely asserting U.S. citizenship to cross the border freely.

Permitting illegal aliens to acquire driver's licenses also opens up opportunities for criminals, whether they be foreign nationals or U.S. citizens. States that allow illegal aliens to possess driver's licenses inevitably reduce the level of identity documentation that is required to obtain a license. The result is that criminals are able to use the lax standards to create false identities backed up by the imprimatur of a driver's license. Such false identities facilitate money laundering, credit card fraud, and check fraud. They also defeat the operation of the NCIC system, because criminals are able to evade arrest warrants by presenting fraudulently-obtained ''clean'' licenses during traffic encounters with local law enforcement officers. Worse, the driver's license becomes a useful tool in the hands of terrorists. Virginia issued licenses to eight of the 9/11 terrorists-licenses that likely were used to board the airplanes on that fateful day.
The most effective solution to this problem would be to make eligibility for federal highway funds contingent upon the states' denying driver's licenses to illegal aliens. Such funds should also be contingent upon states' setting expiration dates so that driver's licenses for legal aliens expire on the date that an alien's period of authorized stay terminates. The only documentation sufficient to qualify an alien for a driver's license should be a valid passport with a valid U.S. visa. This would allow state and local police officers to draw reasonable conclusions from an alien's possession of an unexpired driver's license.
 

"The author of a House bill that would give 600,000 state and local police officers the authority to enforce federal immigration law has called on immigrant-rights advocates who converged on Capitol Hill this week to 'stand up for immigrants, not criminals,'" the Washington Times writes. "While La Raza and that crowd storm the countryside to rail against the enforcement of immigration laws in this nation, the light of hope held by immigrants and others wanting to live in neighborhoods free from criminal aliens and their violent crimes just grew a little dimmer," said Rep. Charlie Norwood (R-GA).

WorldNetDaily: AG nominee member of La Raza

La Raza supports legislation such as the Civil Liberties Restoration Act, which would roll back policies adopted after Sept. 11 designed to protect national security. It supports the "DREAM Act," which would mandate states to offer in-state tuition rates to illegal aliens – thus providing them with benefits not available to U.S. citizens from other states.
The group opposes the "Clear Law Enforcement for Criminal Alien Removal Act of 2003
" and the "Homeland Security Enhancement Act" would give state and local police officers the authority to enforce federal immigration laws.
"While the safety and security of our communities and our country are of the utmost importance, new policies that would allow local police departments to enforce federal civil immigration law will hinder terrorist and other criminal investigations, and have a serious negative impact on Latino communities," La Raza explains.
The group also supports legislation to ensure illegal immigrants' ability to obtain driver's licenses.

National Council of La Raza: News: NCLR WELCOMES NOMINATION OF ...

Murguia also noted Gonzales’ ties to the Hispanic community throughout his career. "Alberto Gonzales served with distinction on the board of directors of one of NCLR’s oldest and most respected affiliates, the Association for the Advancement of Mexican Americans (AAMA) in Houston, Texas. Moreover, during his tenure as White House Counsel, he has been one of the most accessible members of the White House staff to NCLR and other Hispanic organizations," added Murguia.

Liberalism Implemented By Activist Judges

Arizona Republic) "A federal judge blocked the state of Arizona yesterday from implementing Proposition 200 at least for the next three weeks." Prop 187 all over again. "California judge David Bury granted a temporary restraining order after lawyers hired by The Mexican-American Legal Defense and Education Fund argued that people will be harmed if the voter approved initiative is allowed to take effect. Attorney Hector Villagra said, 'Individuals are likely to be denied benefits to which they are legally entitled." This denies benefits to illegal immigrants just like Prop 187, exactly 187, an activist judge rolls in there and says, "The people don't know what they're talking about. They don't know what to do. Their vote was stupid." He didn't say it that way but that was the impending conclusion of his result, and so he threw it out. This has only been thrown out for three weeks. The state of Arizona responded that the will of the voters is entitled to be obeyed, but the judge, in his four-page ruling said the challenges have raised serious questions about the legality of the initiative.

The judge said, "It seems likely that if Proposition 200 were to become law it would have a dramatic chilling effect upon undocumented aliens who would otherwise be eligible for public benefits under federal law, even though the language of the initiative specifically exempts those programs mandated by federal law." This is the left for you, folks. This is judicial activism. This is how it happens. The people vote. It goes against the will of some liberal judge and the liberal judge throws it out saying, "It's unconstitutional," saying, "It will deny somebody benefits," as though the sole role of the federal government is to provide benefits to illegal immigrants in the country! Speaking of illegal immigrants, by the way, the new label has been coined by the people who hate labels. The left in this country who can't stand to be called "liberals" have come up with a new label: Anti-Immigrant.

President Bush to Nominate Ten Individuals to Serve as Members of ...


1 posted on 12/03/2004 9:35:08 AM PST by Ed Current
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To: Ron H.; Travis McGee; Joe Hadenuf; AuntB
  1. FAIR Home Page
  2. United to Secure America
  3. Negative Population Growth
  4. NumbersUSA
  5. Sierrans for US Population Stabilization
  6. Project USA
  7. Americanpatrol.com
  8. Limits To Growth (San Francisco and Silicon Valley)
  9. Diversity Alliance for a Sustainable America
  10. National Border Patrol Council
  11. National Border Patrol Council Local 1613
  12. National Border Patrol Council Local 2730
  13. California Coalition for Immigration Reform

Liberal Democracy vs. Transnational Progressivism: The Future of the Ideological Civil War Within the West.

The Key Concepts of Transnational Progressivism


2 posted on 12/03/2004 9:37:37 AM PST by Ed Current
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To: Ed Current

Until the borders are secured and the illegal aliens are deported; there will never be a successful "war on terrorism" and there definitely will never be "homeland security!"

Semper Fi,
Kelly


3 posted on 12/03/2004 9:39:34 AM PST by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: Ed Current

I can't agree with the writer concerning the drivers licenses. The following says it better than I can (plus it was easier to copy & paste than write the whole thing out):

From GOA:



Time to Make one Last Push Against the Anti-gun National ID Card
-- Please contact your Senators and Representative

Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org

December 3, 2004


It's "crunch time" for the 9/11 bill -- and the future of the
anti-gun National ID proposal attached to it.

Those who want to trade their constitutional liberties for a little
false security are aware of this. They were on ABC News on Tuesday
night, demanding National ID's for American citizens.

Gun Owners of America has been educating the public and rallying the
troops against this horrendous idea. GOA Executive Director Larry
Pratt and former Rep. Bob Barr teamed up to place an editorial in The
Washington Times right before Thanksgiving.

Among other things, the editorial notes how this National ID card
will be "a driver's license that, more than likely, will include a
radio identifier chip and some biometric data, allowing the
government to track individual Americans' movements with ease. Every
time we pass through a toll, or board an airplane, or enter a state
or federal government facility, that will be tracked and recorded."

Will microchips really be inserted into your new driver's licenses?
Well, H.R. 10 does not yet call for that, but the momentum is already
pushing in that direction. Realize that the passports which will be
issued by the end of 2005 will have microchips which can read
electronically from as far away as 30 feet.

And according to State Department documents that were released last
week, the Bush administration has opposed safeguards that privacy
advocates contend are needed to prevent identity theft or government
snooping.

In addition to being used as a method of tracking your movements,
these microchips can be, of course, infused with all kinds of
personal information -- such as your medical, financial and library
records, and, oh yes, even your gun owning status.

Those who love the Constitution, love liberty, and love America need
to be vigilant in fighting for their rights.

National ID cards will NOT keep us safer from terrorism. Israel has
a national identification card that uses biometric identifiers -- a
requirement that has hardly stopped suicide bombers from detonating
bombs in crowded areas.

And no one should think that these National ID cards will be
counterfeit-proof. Despite our best efforts and after using
anti-counterfeiting technology, bad guys have still managed to
counterfeit the new $20 bill.

Right now, no one knows whether the impasse on the 9/11 bill --
otherwise known as the Intelligence Reform bill -- will be broken, or
whether pro-Constitution negotiators have succeeded in finally
striking this abomination from the bill.

But we cannot assume that we have won, or that the bill will die.

Rather, we must make one final push -- and must fight every bit as
hard as those who hate our Constitution and want to take away our
liberties.

ACTION: Contact your senators and representative. Ask them to vote
against any Intelligence Reform conference report which authorizes
National ID cards or creates large government databases on the
private affairs of American citizens.

You can use the pre-written message below and send it as an e-mail by
visiting the GOA Legislative Action Center at
http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm on the GOA website.

----- Pre-written letter -----

Dear

Those who would trade their constitutional rights for a false sense
of security deserve neither.

Provisions in the Intelligence Reform bill which authorize National
ID cards and create large government databases on the private affairs
of Americans do not enhance our security. They diminish it.

On November 24, 2004, GOA Executive Director Larry Pratt and former
Rep. Bob Barr teamed up to place an editorial in The Washington
Times. Among other things, their editorial notes how this National
ID card will be "a driver's license that, more than likely, will
include a radio identifier chip and some biometric data, allowing the
government to track individual Americans' movements with ease. Every
time we pass through a toll, or board an airplane, or enter a state
or federal government facility, that will be tracked and recorded."

I realize that this microchip requirement is not yet in H.R. 10, but
the momentum is obviously pushing in that direction. I'm sure you are
aware of the fact that the passports which will be issued by the end
of 2005 will have microchips which can read electronically from as
far away as 30 feet.

Let's be honest: allowing the government to track U.S. citizens is
not going to do anything to stop real terrorists. Israel has a
national identification card that uses biometric identifiers -- a
requirement that has hardly stopped suicide bombers from detonating
bombs in crowded areas.

Please vote against the conference report on any Intelligence Reform
bill which contains the National ID card or government database
provisions.

Sincerely,


4 posted on 12/03/2004 9:40:44 AM PST by Ancesthntr
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To: kellynla

You are correct.


5 posted on 12/03/2004 9:44:11 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Ed Current

I must say I have a problem with HOW Bush is trying to go about this...he is trying to force a Bill, without cleaning it up, and which includes some VERY BAD legislation -- which includes the driver's license issue with illegals. (still cannot believe he supports this madness)....

My opinion is that this is part of why Tom Ridge is quitting. He is not buying into a piece of crappy legistlation just to be getting it out. Bush is putting the big-time press on this to get it passed...not good.

The only person making logical sense is Sensenbrenner, et al. They ARE RIGHT --- just look at history. Every time the U.S. puts a major policy piece of legilation in place that is heavily flawed, it takes 30 to 40 years to get it rectified...we cannot afford that kind of time while illegals and other potential sources of terrorists and enemies have free reign to cross our borders, just to name ONE OF THE ISSUES IN THIS.

The bill is poorly engineered and contains an ungodly amount of MAJOR PORK... Washington is still drunk on tax money, spending like drunken sailors, and then complaining because we need "SOCIAL SECURITY REFORM" to replace the bucks THEY have stolen from same....Washington is out of control. Votes are more important than THE SECURITY AND INTEGRITY OF THE UNITED STATES...as well as protecting the significance of our laws, the significance of citizenship, our national security, our borders, and the inherent rights of legal, tax-paying citizens -- the one's who pay the overhead that Washington is.



6 posted on 12/03/2004 9:44:34 AM PST by EagleUSA
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To: Ancesthntr
From post #1
The most effective solution to this problem would be to make eligibility for federal highway funds contingent upon the states' denying driver's licenses to illegal aliens.

7 posted on 12/03/2004 9:45:56 AM PST by Ed Current
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To: Ed Current; All

Also, just out this article from NewsMax

Send FedEx Letters to Congress NOW!

You've probably heard that the 9/11 reform bill is being held up in Congress. Thanks to a determined group of conservative House members, the bill was stopped before it could be voted on, and a new "lame-duck" session of Congress is due to try again this coming week to get it passed.

But why did these conservative Congressmen stop the bill? According to Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-WI), the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, it's pretty simple: "The 9/11 reform bill is currently snagged by the Senate's refusal to address three critical issues: Should states continue to issue driver's licenses to illegal aliens? Should we tighten our asylum system that terrorists exploited to such deadly effect? Have we ensured the military chain of command is not broken in our intelligence restructuring?"

This isn't a small matter. The military chain of command is a life-or-death issue for our war fighters in Iraq and Afghanistan. Getting this issue wrong, just so we can say we passed a 9/11 bill, could have DEADLY consequences. Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA), the House Armed Services Committee Chairman, and many military leaders have articulated a lot of the same concerns that Sensenbrenner shares about the current bill in this area.

Intelligence-reform efforts will be wasted if Congress fails to address other security loopholes that the 9/11 hijackers studied to hatch their deadly plans. Once the 19 hijackers arrived here, they were able to secure 63 validly issued driver's licenses. Using these licenses, they were able to blend in and eventually board U.S. planes. Learning from this, the 9/11 Commission Report -- which this legislation is based upon -- recommends that the federal government "set standards for the issuance of birth certificates and other sources of identification, such as driver's licenses. Fraud in identification documents is no longer just a problem of theft." The House sought to implement this recommendation with tough security standards for driver's licenses. The Senate, so far, has largely rejected this approach.

What's so controversial about setting strong standards to stop another terrorist like Hani Hanjour from receiving a driver's license?

The House Republicans also sought to address asylum abuse, especially loopholes that terrorists use. The mastermind of the first World Trade Center attack, and an Egyptian immigrant who killed two people at the Los Angeles airport in 2002, both exploited our asylum system to remain in the U.S. Yet the Senate wants to "study" asylum abuse, and not take action!

Passing the current bill, which FAILS to comprehensively address the problems exposed by 9/11, will simply not do enough to prevent another 9/11. Congress CAN get a good bill -- one that addresses intelligence reform, terrorist asylum abuse and security for driver's licenses -- ONLY when the Senate decides it's willing to tackle these vital issues.

The fact is this -- the Senate is refusing to consider vital border security and immigration provisions in the 9/11 overhaul. The current bill is incomplete and needs work -- work that House Democrats and the Senate are refusing to do. Rep. Sensenbrenner is fighting for better security standards for drivers licenses, and he doesn't believe our national security is improved by issuing drivers licenses to illegal aliens.

That makes sense. Page 390 of the 9/11 Commission report states, "The federal government should set standards for the issuance of birth certificates and sources of identification, such as drivers licenses. Fraud in identification documents is no longer just a problem of theft."

Sensenbrenner and many dedicated House Republicans are working for a comprehensive approach to preventing another 9/11, instead of a limp, scaled-back bill that focuses only on restructuring the intelligence bureaucracy. What good is better intelligence if we don't control our borders and issue drivers licenses to people whose real identity is suspect? Border security and immigration are an integral part of homeland security -- the Senate needs to address these issues NOW.

We must NOT let the GOP leaders of the Senate and the House of Representatives push through a poor bill, just because we "need something now". We need something GOOD. We need to make our voices heard LOUD and CLEAR immediately, before these leaders make a serious mistake and ramrod this bad bill through.
As usual, you can also send a message at no charge to your own Congressman and Senators, telling them to vote for REAL 9/11 reform:

http://www.rightmarch.com/120204.htm

`snip`
www.newmax.com


8 posted on 12/03/2004 9:49:34 AM PST by AuntB (Every person who enters the U.S. illegally--from anywhere--increases the likelihood of another 9/11)
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To: EagleUSA

contains an ungodly amount of MAJOR PORK... Washington is still drunk on tax money, spending like drunken sailors

There is a constituency for pork, known as the 'pork lobby.'

There is a constituency for the U.S. Constitution, known as the vocal minority.

9 posted on 12/03/2004 9:50:58 AM PST by Ed Current
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To: Ed Current; kellynla; NormsRevenge; Grampa Dave; SierraWasp
The most effective solution to this problem would be to make eligibility for federal highway funds contingent upon the states' denying driver's licenses to illegal aliens.

Right!

>Maybe that would help us here in California.....

The Anti-USA crowd will fight that though.....________________________

Unholy Alliance

by David Horowitz
Hardcover - (September 2004) - $27.95

In this tour de force on the most important issue of our time, David Horowitz, confronts the paradox of how so many Americans, including the leadership of the Democratic Party, could turn against the War on Terror. He finds an answer in a political Left that shares a view of America as the “Great Satan” with America’s radical Islamic enemies.

10 posted on 12/03/2004 9:53:04 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: AuntB

by the Senate's refusal to address three critical issues: Should states continue to issue driver's licenses to illegal aliens? Should we tighten our asylum system that terrorists exploited to such deadly effect? Have we ensured the military chain of command is not broken in our intelligence restructuring?"

Post card to Senate:

America is being invaded by aliens.

Wish you were here.

11 posted on 12/03/2004 9:55:16 AM PST by Ed Current
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To: ASA Vet

For your MI ping list. This is an attempt by the left wing and so called moderates to effectively kill any real military intel.

Question: Who should control those satellites?

Should it be the military commanders of the troops heading into combat? Or should it be a civilian bureaucrat--removed from the military chain of command--sitting in a velvet-draped office in Washington, D.C.?

Right now, the military controls the spy satellites that collect "tactical" intelligence for use in combat. Meanwhile, the Central Intelligence Agency uses these very same satellites for collecting "strategic" intelligence (about things like those suspected Iraqi weapons-of-mass-destruction stockpiles that the CIA--while relying on the satellites--did not recruit a single Iraqi spy to track down and verify on the ground).

Licensed Hijackers

The National Security Agency, which intercepts, decodes and translates communications, the National Reconaissance Office, which operates the surveillance satellites themselves, and the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, which analyzes and integrates the data gathered into maps and other combat-usable applications, are all part of the Department of Defense. Their budget requests are generated by the military, and their chain of command runs from the commanders in the field, through the secretary of Defense, to the commander in chief in the White House.

Liberal Republican Sen. Susan Collins of Maine, the chairman of the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee, wants to take authority over these satellites away from the military commanders and give it to a newly minted civilian bureaucrat, known as the National Intelligence Director, who will have ultimate administrative authority over all intelligence operations both military and civilian. Sen. Joe Lieberman (D.-Conn.), the ranking Democrat on the committee, wants to do that, too.

House Armed Services Chairman Duncan Hunter (R.-Calif.) is standing up for American warriors in the field by standing in the way of Susan Collins and Joe Lieberman.

Hunter is right. Collins and Lieberman are wrong. This is the main conflict that has held up the "intelligence reform" bill that Congress is currently considering in response to the report of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States.


12 posted on 12/03/2004 9:57:53 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Writers of hate GW/Christians/ Republicans Articles = GIM=GAY INFECTED MEDIOTS!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

ya might want to ping our illustrious governor. LOL


13 posted on 12/03/2004 10:00:00 AM PST by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: Ed Current

Excellent info.....thank you.


14 posted on 12/03/2004 10:02:54 AM PST by american spirit
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To: Ed Current
Remember in the opening days of the WoT in Afghanistan, the military had locked in on One-eyed Mullah or OBL, but missed taking any action, because they thought they had to wait for the military lawyers in Tampa, FL to approve the actions.

SecDef Rumsfeld went ballistic when he found out. And we eneded up missing the chance to take out the guy.

===

Congress rushes too many bills without knowing the impact. Case in point -- Campaign Finance Reform. They thought that was such a great idea until they saw all the loopholes in the 2004 election cycle.

National Security bills are too important to rush through without farsightedness and extensive considerations. Loopholes in poorly written bills could create massive unforeseen disasters.
15 posted on 12/03/2004 10:04:50 AM PST by TomGuy (America: Best friend or worst enemy. Choose wisely.)
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To: Grampa Dave

Excellent summary!


16 posted on 12/03/2004 10:06:03 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Ed Current
The most effective solution to this problem would be to make eligibility for federal highway funds contingent upon the states' denying driver's licenses to illegal aliens.

I don't see a thing wrong with that method since that is and has been for many years the usual M.O. of the Federal Government when they want their laws (read: WILL) implemented and carried out by the states. In turn the State could use the same carrot and stick M.O. on their cities like so many are also prone to do today.




17 posted on 12/03/2004 10:07:01 AM PST by Ron H. (Immigration to America has always been a privilege and never a right!)
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To: Spook86; BIGLOOK; xzins; Grampa Dave; MineralMan; elfman2; ThanhPhero; beyond the sea; Atigun; ...

MI Ping


18 posted on 12/03/2004 10:08:23 AM PST by ASA Vet (Be very very quiet, I'm hunting for the rascally ... troll)
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To: Ed Current
Related item:

Republicans warn of party split over immigration

19 posted on 12/03/2004 10:23:26 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Ed Current
Sensenbrenner is right.

Hunter is right.

The effete mincers preening before their silvered mirrors in the inflated-ego Senate are wrong.

Shame on the Bush people for putting politics and a faulty Bill ahead of getting the proper Bill!

Hang tough, fellas! Get the Bill right, don't be put off by promises of "action" in the future. It will likely never come.

*Note to the GOP: You wanna win electoral mandates from the American People for the next generation? Support immigration reforms which halt the flood of illegals, stymies the terrorists, and protects our borders and jobs.

**2nd Note to the GOP: You wanna lose? Give this agenda to the Democrats on a silver platter and then get beat silly by these demogogues, who won't do anything about it either but will sure make lots of hay from it once they get the sound bites, the limelight and the media spin down pat as they falsely convince the American People they will!

20 posted on 12/03/2004 10:23:28 AM PST by Gritty ("I'm sick of talking about 'values,' pretending I have them or care..."-Michael Kinsley)
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To: Ed Current

bttt


21 posted on 12/03/2004 10:24:58 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: Joe Hadenuf

And I'll raise you one BTTT. Call.


22 posted on 12/03/2004 10:36:28 AM PST by Ron H. (Immigration to America has always been a privilege and never a right!)
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To: Ed Current
From post #1

The most effective solution to this problem would be to make eligibility for federal highway funds contingent upon the states' denying driver's licenses to illegal aliens.

I'm certainly not in favor of illegals having DLs. However, I am dead set against what this legislation will allow for: National ID Cards. What information will be encoded on them? What rights will be denied to you if you don't have one (like if it is lost or stolen)? What about counterfeit ID's and identity theft (now you will only have to make 1 item to steal an identity)? What about radio chips in the cards that can track all of our movements?

Sorry, I'm not ready to trade my basic rights for the illusion of security.

23 posted on 12/03/2004 10:46:56 AM PST by Ancesthntr
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Looks like we have the every few years attack on our military intel to make it like the Carter/Clintoon CIA by those in congress who hate a strong military.


24 posted on 12/03/2004 11:23:32 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Writers of hate GW/Christians/ Republicans Articles = GIM=GAY INFECTED MEDIOTS!)
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To: Ed Current

Good article. Kudos to Sensenbrenner, Hunter, Tancredo et al. for fighting for border security and a pox on the open-borders crowd. Why send 100,000+ troops to Iraq when we refuse to safeguard our own borders? It's insanity.


25 posted on 12/03/2004 11:37:26 AM PST by reelfoot
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To: Gritty

btt


26 posted on 12/03/2004 11:48:51 AM PST by AuntB (Every person who enters the U.S. illegally--from anywhere--increases the likelihood of another 9/11)
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To: Ed Current

In addition to the items considered in this post I would like to offer some more items or maybe different legislation.

It might be good to start with the basics.

Voter Legislation. This would require positive picture ID from anyone casting a ballot in a Federal election. That ID number would be matched with a national database where it would be verified as belonging to a real living human being and that person has not already voted in the particular election. Registration for voters in a Federal election would close on June 1 or 30 days before a primary.
No voter registration could involve anyone other that the person is registering. ie no one could bring your card in for you.
No convicted fellon could vote in a Federal election.

Border Control. All illegal imigrants would be deported immediately. Positive ID would be required of anyone entering the country in the future. A tracking/reporting system would be designed and implemented to ensure that a person here on a visa was actually doing what the visa allowed. ie a student must be actively attending a school.

Term Limits. All Federal elected positions would have term limits. (as the president does now).
Congress 4 two year terms
Senate 2 six year terms
Judges would no longer have lifetime appointments. Federal judges 10 years max. Supreme Court judges 15 years max. All judges must retire by age 75.


27 posted on 12/03/2004 11:51:14 AM PST by Eternally-Optimistic (anything is possible)
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To: Ed Current

On driver's licenses, how about a simple field indicating citizenship which could be "US Citizen", "Foreign " or "Undeclared". Some of the House Provisions on driver's licenses are obnoxious such as mandating states to join a Driver License Agreement (DLA) and require states to record the most minor traffic violation even the most minor equipment violation. The Senate version of driver's license provisions are more friendly. A rhetorical question, how much does Larry Ellison and his company, Oracle stand to make if this passes ? He rattled his saber on how we need a national ID after the 9/11/2001 bombings. How much is he paying the House members to push the onerous provisions ?


28 posted on 12/03/2004 12:09:17 PM PST by CORedneck
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To: Ed Current

I'm curious if you've heard about the new SS/Bush Administration Totalization agreement with Mexico.


Totalization: Sellout of American Workers

by Phyllis Schlafly
Nov. 17, 2004
The Democrats are trying to make a campaign issue out of George W. Bush's alleged plan to "privatize" Social Security, scaring seniors into thinking their checks will be cut off. That is a phony issue; all Bush suggests is to offer younger workers the option (not the compulsion) of transferring a very small part of their Social Security benefit into private investments.

The real threat to Social Security doesn't come from giving young people this opportunity. The threat comes from the Bush Administration's plan to load illegal aliens into the Social Security system, an idea that would skyrocket costs and bankrupt the system at the same time that baby boomers flood into their benefit years.

The code word for this racket is "totalization." The United States has totalization agreements with 20 other countries, which have been reasonable and non-controversial, but totalization with Mexico is TOTALLY different.

The idea behind totalization with other countries is to assure a pension to those few individuals who work legally in two countries by "totalizing" their payments into the pension systems of both countries. All existing totalization agreements are with developed nations whose retirement benefits are on a parity with U.S. benefits, and the affected employees work for companies that have been paying taxes into the other countries' retirement systems.

Workers from the other 20 countries come with documents from their employer verifying that they are authorized to work in the United States. Only a minuscule fraction of Mexicans enter with such documents.

The legitimate goal of totalization with other countries is to avoid double taxation for retirement when employers assign their employees to work temporarily in another country. Reciprocity works because there is rough parity between the number of U.S. workers in the 20 other countries and the foreigners from those countries who work in the United States.

But this goal has no relevance to Mexico. There is no parity whatsoever between the number of Mexicans working in the United States and the number of U.S. citizens working in Mexico, and absolutely no parity in the social security systems of the two countries.

Mexican benefits are not remotely equal to U.S. benefits. Americans receive benefits after working for 10 years, but Mexicans have to work 24 years before receiving any benefits.

Mexican workers receive back in retirement only what they actually paid in, plus interest, whereas the U.S. Social Security system is skewed to give lower-wage earners benefits greatly in excess of what they and their employers contributed.

Mexico has two different retirement programs, one for public-sector employees, which is draining the national treasury, and one for private-sector workers, which is estimated to cover only 40 percent of the workforce. The rest of the workers are in the off-the-record economy (euphemistically called the "informal" sector).

The 10 million Mexicans who have illegally entered the United States previously lived in poverty, did not pay social security taxes in Mexico, and did not work for employers who paid taxes into a retirement plan. If they were working at all, it was in the off-the-record economy.

Illegality is no issue with the countries where we have existing totalization agreements because none of them accounts for even one percent of the U.S illegal population. On the other hand, Mexico provides more than two-thirds of the illegals in the United States.

The Bush totalization plan would pay out billions in Social Security benefits to Mexicans for work they did in the U.S. using fraudulent Social Security numbers, something that Americans would go to jail for doing. It would pay Social Security Disability benefits to Mexicans who worked in the United States as little as 3 years.

The Bush totalization plan would lure even more Mexicans into the United States illegally in the hope of amnesty and eligibility for Social Security benefits. The Bush plan would even cover the Mexicans' spouses and dependents who may never have lived in the United States.

Since few if any of the illegal aliens have built up any equity in the Mexican retirement system, what is there to totalize? Totalization is a plan for the U.S. taxpayers to end up assuming the entire burden.

When George W. Bush became President in 2001, the Mexican government expected the United States to pass amnesty (disguised as a guest worker plan and "regularizing" the entry of Mexicans). After 9/11, Mexico's national policy turned to increasing the number of its nationals working in the United States and getting them to qualify for all the social benefits and privileges Americans receive, from driver's licenses to Social Security and Social Security Disability.

The Social Security commissioners of both Mexico and the Bush Administration signed a totalization agreement in June of 2004, but the text of the agreement has been kept secret. Maybe we will be permitted to see it after the President approves it and sends it to Congress.

Let your Members of Congress know you want them to stop this billion-dollar sellout of American workers and taxpayers.
http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2004/nov04/04-11-17.html


PDF TOTALIZATION AGREEMENT
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1286668/posts?page=26 Post 36


29 posted on 12/03/2004 12:19:48 PM PST by AuntB (Every person who enters the U.S. illegally--from anywhere--increases the likelihood of another 9/11)
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To: CORedneck; Ed Current; All; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Gritty; Eternally-Optimistic

Current Poll:
http://www.lauraingraham.com/

Thank you for participating in our Laura Ingraham poll. We appreciate your response!

Only one vote per poll per visitor is accepted.


Q: Should President Bush offer illegal aliens a pathway toward legalized status?


Answer
Percent

No 78%

Yes 22%


30 posted on 12/03/2004 2:27:20 PM PST by AuntB (Every person who enters the U.S. illegally--from anywhere--increases the likelihood of another 9/11)
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To: AuntB
No change.

Q: Should President Bush offer illegal aliens a pathway toward legalized status?

Answer

Percent

No

78%

Yes

22%

 

 

31 posted on 12/03/2004 3:14:01 PM PST by Ed Current
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To: Ancesthntr

I'm certainly not in favor of illegals having DLs. However, I am dead set against what this legislation will allow for: National ID Cards. What information will be encoded on them? What rights will be denied to you if you don't have one (like if it is lost or stolen)? What about counterfeit ID's and identity theft (now you will only have to make 1 item to steal an identity)? What about radio chips in the cards that can track all of our movements?

Sorry, I'm not ready to trade my basic rights for the illusion of security.

The proposal would not require a national I.D. www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1287840/posts

It would financially punish the states that could giva rip about illegal aliens.

32 posted on 12/03/2004 3:20:50 PM PST by Ed Current
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To: Grampa Dave; All

CNN is reporting that Sen. John Warner is not thrilled with this intelligence bill as the Senate wants it. Lou Dobbs is worth watching. We need to work on Warner.

www.senate.gov
Congressional Switchboard. 1-877-762-8762


33 posted on 12/03/2004 3:42:08 PM PST by AuntB (Every person who enters the U.S. illegally--from anywhere--increases the likelihood of another 9/11)
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4.1O dana super trac pak; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; ...

ping


34 posted on 12/03/2004 4:31:36 PM PST by gubamyster
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To: gubamyster

Hunter and Sensenbrenner ought to be getting calls and letters thanking them for their guts.

Campaign contributions would be appreciated too, I'm sure.


35 posted on 12/03/2004 4:34:44 PM PST by StoneColdGOP (She calls me *Mini-Merc*)
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To: ASA Vet
Thanks for the ping, ASA. Bookmarking.

The lame duck congress will produce a lame bill; this should be held over for the 109th Congress and the majority leadership should shake the committee's tree, shedding nuts and dead wood.

36 posted on 12/03/2004 7:17:05 PM PST by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but have recently come to my senses.)
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To: Ancesthntr
Don't give up the ship Ancesthntr. I'm not. I was delivered on Wm Penn's ship "Welcome" as far as I know. Buckman ancestor.
37 posted on 12/03/2004 7:45:44 PM PST by LNewman
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To: LNewman
oh ... I'm not libertarian by any stretch of the imagination.

tiny thing ... thought I'd clear that up ....

38 posted on 12/03/2004 8:11:40 PM PST by LNewman
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To: Ed Current
I say no to a controlled society and the back door National ID through your driver's license. Look at web site Eagle Forum. Hell no. I will not surrender liberty for the benefit of societal security which we will not get anyway !!! The American Assoc. of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA) is run by not only motor vehicle administrators but by law enforcement executives.

The AAMVA is a private corporation. Go to their web site and attempt to look up some of their items. Off limits to the public through username/password protection. Why do our state governments give money to this police state organization who do not operate under open door laws that many states have ? Read the article by Phylis Schafely. She mentions the AAMVA is not forthcoming on their proposal including the mandate that states must participate in the Driver License Agreement which will include the linking of motor vehicle databases between states, Mexico and Canada ! Your personal information would accessible even to a corrupt cop in Cancun Mexico !
39 posted on 12/03/2004 9:05:31 PM PST by CORedneck
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To: CORedneck
I DO NOT want illegal aliens (read FORIEGN NATIONALS) issued Drivers Licenses in ANY State of the Union. What is WRONG with an International Drivers License? And just exactly when did that go by the way side?

Mexico is SO FAR unworthy of any trust from it's TOP that it is difficult, if not impossible, to consider ANY proposal much less their FULL-ON belly laughs of late! Señor Fox and his compadres are rapidly developing only the caricatures of themselves! ZORRO! zip ...xip...zits. We have a cure for that in "the states." It's called Clearasil!

40 posted on 12/03/2004 9:42:20 PM PST by LNewman
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To: gubamyster

BTT


41 posted on 12/03/2004 10:21:15 PM PST by Happy2BMe (It's not quite time to rest - John Kerry is still out there (and so is Hillary))
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To: Ed Current; JohnHuang2; keri; international american; Kay Soze; jpsb; hershey; TomInNJ; ...
Who should control the (spy) satellites - ping.

__________________________________________________

Should it be the military commanders of the troops heading into combat? Or should it be a civilian bureaucrat--removed from the military chain of command--sitting in a velvet-draped office in Washington, D.C.?

42 posted on 12/03/2004 10:25:17 PM PST by Happy2BMe (It's not quite time to rest - John Kerry is still out there (and so is Hillary))
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To: Happy2BMe
911 hijackers had 63 phony drivers licenses yet this new bill doesn't address that.

Richard Miniter Losing Bin Laden showed the Clinton team watching OBL on Predator video and not taking the Hellfire shot--

Proof positive the nut-crunching decisions cannot be left to DC bozocrats.

43 posted on 12/03/2004 10:37:47 PM PST by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: PhilDragoo
* * *

Illegals from terrorist nations crossing border into Arizona.

* * *

" Here's what the Eyewitness News 4 Investigators uncovered. "It's a Muslim prayer blanket. It was found about a mile and a half west from the Douglas port of entry in 2001." Vance says, "Other log books, diary-type things, other bits and pieces of paper with Arabic written on them found in the area over the last few years. They pay to learn Spanish language skills, and by the time they reach the U.S., they're acting and talking like Mexicans to fool border agents."

* * *


* * * *

Al Qaeda seeks tie to local Mexican gangs in the United States

* * * *

MIDDLE-EASTERN INVADERS CAUGHT CROSSING FROM MEXICO IN COCHISE COUNTY IN PAST SIX WEEKS

Woman With Possible Terror Ties Arrested (smuggled thru our southern boarder)

______________

Congressman: Al Qaeda entering southern border and changing names to Mexican surnames

______________

Arab terrorists 'are getting into the US over Mexican border

AL-QAIDA Suspect Arrested in Texas
______________

What Is In This MRE, Sarge?
______________

* * *

Officials Fear Terrorists Could Try to Enter U.S. Through Mexico

________________________________

Tue Apr 20, 8:09 AM ET
Reuters

Jermaine Jackson(L), brother of Michael Jackson, Jackson family spokesman Firpo W. Carr(C) and Khawaja Khurshid Reshi hold a rug with a woven picture of Michael Jackson April 19, 2004, in Manama. Jermaine Jackson, in the Gulf to promote understanding between Muslims and his fellow Americans, said Tuesday that Muslims are 'the new Negroes in America.' Jermaine, a convert to Islam and dressed in white Arab garb, has been speaking about Islam and U.S. 'adventures' in Iraq to enthusiastic audiences at Koranic centers and universities in the Gulf Arab state of Bahrain. (Hamad I Mohammed/Reuters)

* * *

 

 


FROM THE KORAN ITSELF...
"HEIL HITLER" Now Upgraded to "ALLAH AKBAR?"

You may already know about this one: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

But did you know that there are 123 verses in the Quran concerning fighting and killing for the cause of Allah? Here are but a few passages:

-Muslims are encouraged to be wholly occupied (Sura 2:273) with fighting for Allah's cause.

- Allah will give "a far richer recompense to those who fight for him" (Sura 4:96).

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere" (Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).

- A Muslim must "fight for the cause of Allah with the devotion due to him" (Sura 22:78)

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).

- A Muslim should "enjoy the good things" he has gained by fighting (Sura 8:69).

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3).
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34).

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

- Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55

And Speaking of Paradise...

"There will be "gushing fountains" and everyone "shall recline on jeweled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine." Suras (or chapters) 55 and 56 of the Quran.

"Therein are bashful virgins whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched before ... virgins as fair as corals and rubies," sura 55. A few lines later, you might remind them of "virgins chaste and fair ... they shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets."

"The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a.'"

It will be the day, God willing, you spend with the women of paradise...Know that the gardens of paradise are waiting for you in all their beauty, and the women of paradise are waiting, calling out, "Come hither, friend of God."

For much more on "PARADISE... A Better World?" click HERE

.

 

~ ~ ~ ~

Urgent Terrorism Threat on Our Southern Border

44 posted on 12/03/2004 10:42:50 PM PST by Happy2BMe (It's not quite time to rest - John Kerry is still out there (and so is Hillary))
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To: Happy2BMe; MeekOneGOP; PhilDragoo; Tancredo Fan; potlatch; ntnychik; Travis McGee



Those who say efficient quick electronic checks cannot work are lying - Witness the VISA & Master Card checks and clerks cutting bad risk cards in half right in front of the customers in stores

Same can be done with driver's licenses and non-USA citizens's other IDs which should have a RED BORDER

Illegal aliens even get quality faked Social Security cards and driver's licenses thru Bill Clinton's Motor Voter scam and the drive AND VOTE illegally

Illegal aliens also sneak into the USA via Puerto Rico where they buy faked Birth Certificates and become INSTANT American citizens and then fly into Miami or Dallas or Atlanta

Illegal aliens can also buy fake PR Birth Certificate via the web or in scam shops here or order them from PR by phone and pay by credit card or money transfer in just a few minutes

Then they can get driver's licenses, vote, get SSI, food stamp cards, public subsized Section 8 housing, SS, and many more bennies you are paying for as they then bring in their "wives" and "kids", etc

Just one illegal alien can cost the USA taxpayer millions of dollars in a short time


CAUTION! :

Free Republic is full of fakeroo Conservatives who are pro "Open-Borders", La Raza members, nutcase lib leftie church activists and clergy, immigration attorneys and activists, Commies, One-Worlders, Open-Border LBs, crooked employers and even illegal aliens posting here on FR threads


Their hand is in your pocket right now




If they do not pay taxes yet get away with breaking USA laws why can't you?

Ask your politicians which ones you can break and which income taxes and employee witholding deductions you can ignore!

14th Ammendment does not say some "people" are more equal than others



The ACLU, NAACP, LaRaza, radical federal judges, immigration attorneys need to be highlighted and profiled on many websites and hounded and exposed

Publish their photos, resumes, addresses, personal and family info, etc on the web like Republic college students did on radical lib/dem leftist college faculty profs and instructors - It drove the radicals nutty and the tried to censor/shut down those websites!


We know how to do it after the 2004 election run-up


Any FR members who are employers who justify using illegal aliens for themselves or other employers need to "outed" now - You know who they are! They are criminal felons with agendas lobbying here on FR to covert you FReepers while robbing you blind!




Let's hit the afterburners and smoke 'em!



http://pro.lookingat.us/Stinkin.wav


45 posted on 12/03/2004 11:58:34 PM PST by devolve (                           )
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To: gubamyster

bttt


46 posted on 12/04/2004 2:45:55 AM PST by lainde
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To: LNewman

"Mexico is SO FAR unworthy of any trust from it's TOP that it is difficult, if not impossible, to consider ANY proposal much less their FULL-ON belly laughs of late!"

Roger Hedgecock pointed out that Mexico has us over a barrel... of oil. They are selling us a lot of oil, undercutting OPEC. Once again, our failure to drill for oil at home makes us dependent on other countries. That is the dirty little secret about our border problem. Sick, isn't it?

Just imagine, we might lose an entire city to a WMD because we aren't drilling in ANWR. The good news is we are saving the caribou from the pipeline [who will jump on that lie?]


47 posted on 12/04/2004 7:41:07 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March (God bless our Iranian friend! http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1292792/posts?page=151,16)
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