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Indianapolis police train to use M-16 rifles
WHAS ^ | 12/01/2004

Posted on 12/03/2004 1:54:14 PM PST by 4.1O dana super trac pak

Twenty Indianapolis police officers were training to use M-16 rifles, with the weapons expected to be available to patrol officers by the end of the week, officials said.

"There are specific situations where they are going to be used," Deputy Chief James Reno said. "It gives us other options. This may be something they can have in their arsenal."

Indianapolis police have faced the same types of weapons several times in recent years, The Indianapolis Star reported Wednesday.

In August, a man fired an SKS-style rifle in a southside neighborhood and killed Patrolman Timothy "Jake" Laird from more than 150 yards away.

"I think it's a great weapon," said Marlon Douglas, one of the officers being trained to carry the M-16. "After the Jake Laird incident, we just want to make sure we're ready for anything."

The department is using the Colt M-16, A1, the same rifle used by American troops during the Vietnam War. The department bought the 218 surplus weapons from a federal armory in Illinois, the Star reported.

The rifles were modified to remove the automatic firing capability. The original rifle can keep firing for as long as the shooter holds the trigger, while these rifles fire just one shot for each squeeze, officials said.

Police officials said they will distribute the M-16s to officers who work different shifts and districts so the weapons will always be available.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; US: Indiana
KEYWORDS: bang; leo; m16

1 posted on 12/03/2004 1:54:14 PM PST by 4.1O dana super trac pak
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak
The rifles were modified to remove the automatic firing capability. The original rifle can keep firing for as long as the shooter holds the trigger, while these rifles fire just one shot for each squeeze, officials said.

No offense to any law enforcement types here, but after some spray-and-pray shootouts by cops in the past, I say 'thank God.'

2 posted on 12/03/2004 1:56:44 PM PST by Yo-Yo
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak
Still, it's an excellent firearm. They need some of this in San Francisco...
3 posted on 12/03/2004 2:00:27 PM PST by Edgerunner (The left ain't right. Hand me that launch pickle...)
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To: Yo-Yo

Cool, now the Indy police will at least have a fair fight in the next shootout!

Good for them.


4 posted on 12/03/2004 2:00:57 PM PST by IllumiNaughtyByNature (I got a fever, and the only prescription is MORE COWBELLS!)
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak
So they'll use the three round burst instead of the fully automatic. I was partial to the A1 in basic training. Didn't like the A2.

Then I got to carry the M-205, an M-16 with a grenade launcher attached, in permanent party.

Will cops get to use the fully automatic M-60 next?


5 posted on 12/03/2004 2:02:42 PM PST by rdb3 (LoRdZ of the Gen-X Republican Rebellion -- rdb3 "HiP-hOp FReeper")
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To: Yo-Yo
--yes---I would submit that there is never a need for full auto fire in police work--
6 posted on 12/03/2004 2:03:50 PM PST by rellimpank
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak

Hope they spend some time at the range.


7 posted on 12/03/2004 2:09:10 PM PST by Conspiracy Guy (This space is available to advertise your service or product.)
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To: Edgerunner

Every cop should have and M16 and an Uzi.


8 posted on 12/03/2004 2:12:36 PM PST by nanak (Tom Tancredo 2008:Last Hope to Save America)
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To: rellimpank
--yes---I would submit that there is never a need for full auto fire in police work--

I'm sure the US Border Patrol could find a use for full auto.

9 posted on 12/03/2004 2:14:07 PM PST by Ajnin
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak
How... antiquated. My department, in CA, allows officers, any and all officers, who qualify with an AR-15 to carry one on duty, every shift. It sits right there in the lock, next to the Remington.

It's actually become quite passe, and I got tired of the bother, so it's just me, my Sig .45 and the .12 gauge.

10 posted on 12/03/2004 2:14:50 PM PST by Pahuanui (When a foolish man hears of the Tao, he laughs out loud)
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak
(snip)The rifles were modified to remove the automatic firing capability.

Uh... wouldn't that make them AR15s? Not that there's anything wrong with that but wouldn't you rather have a new AR15 than a stripped down or modified M16A1?

11 posted on 12/03/2004 2:16:50 PM PST by edchambers ("Pajama clad Neocon footsoldier of the Haliburton Death squad")
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To: Yo-Yo

You ain't kidding. The very last thing you need in a shootout with some nutjob is a trigger happy cop spraying bullets in a 30 degree arc.


12 posted on 12/03/2004 2:26:11 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (God is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: Ajnin

With respect to your background and what you do, IMHO the US-Mexican border situation should be considered a military situation--


13 posted on 12/03/2004 2:30:41 PM PST by rellimpank
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To: K4Harty

They might have been better off with the M-14. It fires a a .308 round instead of a 7.62x39 and has a lot more range and a lot more penetrating power. Partucularly useful if the enemy is wearing body armor.


14 posted on 12/03/2004 2:58:00 PM PST by libstripper
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To: libstripper

Good point, but if they are still running around with the .38/9mm and a 12ga. ANYTHING would be better, the M-14 would be outstanding.


15 posted on 12/03/2004 3:01:41 PM PST by IllumiNaughtyByNature (I got a fever, and the only prescription is MORE COWBELLS!)
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak

I wouldn't buy the Colt version. Give me a Bushmaster.


16 posted on 12/03/2004 3:05:15 PM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak

If they don't have a H&K MP5 in every vehicle, then they're not up to par with Dalworthington Gardens, Texas.


17 posted on 12/03/2004 3:06:00 PM PST by Deaf Smith
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To: rellimpank

No there is not, but there are times that a rifle is needed.

Cops have carried rifles throughout the years, this is not a new thing. It's news worthy because they are "ugly guns"

They have carried anything from 22's for stray, injured animals in the country to M-1 Carbines and 30-30 lever actions for things that a shotgun is not appropriate for


18 posted on 12/03/2004 3:06:17 PM PST by 5Madman2 (DemocRATS are Vermin)
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To: 5Madman2
--I agree and the officers should know how (and when) to use a rifle, be it a lever action .30-30 or whatever.

As an aside to this , I know of a county where a Mini-14 was available in the trunk of a squad car. By whatever means , it became so rusted as to be unusable. The solution--replace it with a stainless steel model!

19 posted on 12/03/2004 3:13:23 PM PST by rellimpank
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To: rellimpank

Stainless steel is good, but they still need to maintain it Oil does wonders. The great thing about the Mini 14 is that they would only need to wipe it down every once in a while


20 posted on 12/03/2004 3:21:01 PM PST by 5Madman2 (DemocRATS are Vermin)
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To: rdb3

So they'll use the three round burst instead of the fully automatic.

___________________________________________________________

Not at all! The M-16A1 does NOT have 3 round burst capability. That is only in the A2 model. If they remove the full auto funcion, it merely becomes a semi-automatic, which they could buy at any licensed gun dealer.


21 posted on 12/03/2004 3:22:32 PM PST by SFC Chromey (Did 13 months in Iraq and of COURSE I voted for BUSH!)
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To: rellimpank

I concur.


22 posted on 12/03/2004 3:23:30 PM PST by SFC Chromey (Did 13 months in Iraq and of COURSE I voted for BUSH!)
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To: libstripper

"It fires a a .308 round instead of a 7.62x39" M-16 fires a 5.56, the 7.62x39 is what the sks/ak fires.


23 posted on 12/03/2004 3:30:27 PM PST by eastforker (Ask me about a free satellite TV system!)
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak

AR-10 rules, baby.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as16-e.htm


24 posted on 12/03/2004 3:31:48 PM PST by 7.62 x 51mm ( veni vidi vino visa "I came, I saw, I drank wine, I shopped")
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To: Conspiracy Guy
Hope they spend some time at the range.

the problem being, the gun grabbers have made shooting ranges that can accomodate these weapons, very few and far between. I recently rebuilt a range for a small county in IN to handle the weapons from nearby counties that were too "populated" to allow them.

25 posted on 12/03/2004 3:33:39 PM PST by digger48
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak
The rifles were modified to remove the automatic firing capability

Unless they were built on new recievers, the BATFE still considers them machine guns. If the arsenal can do the rebuild for police, why not for sale to The People via the CMP? Hmm?

Although I think I'd rather have a reworked M-14 myself. Oh heck, I'll take one of each.

26 posted on 12/03/2004 3:35:02 PM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: edchambers
Uh... wouldn't that make them AR15s? Not that there's anything wrong with that but wouldn't you rather have a new AR15 than a stripped down or modified M16A1?

I would, and I'm sure they would as well. But their cost is considerably lower this way. Possible as low as zero, if the feds are providing the weapons. Even if they had to pay for the new stripped lower, and for the cost of reassembly, they'd still save a lot of money over buying new AR-15s.

27 posted on 12/03/2004 3:38:54 PM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: rdb3

Actually, they'll use the M16A4, which is semi-auto only - 1 pull, 1 round.


28 posted on 12/03/2004 3:42:52 PM PST by The Coopster
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak

WoW!!!


29 posted on 12/03/2004 3:43:31 PM PST by Whataday
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To: edchambers

It would technically only be an AR15 if they had additionally removed the flash supressor - and I don't believe they did.


30 posted on 12/03/2004 3:44:35 PM PST by The Coopster
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To: libstripper

.308 is the same as the 7.62.


31 posted on 12/03/2004 3:46:01 PM PST by The Coopster
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak
Remember the North Hollywood shootout in February 1997 between LAPD and a small group of bank robbers?
The bad guys were dressed in full body armor and carried fully automatic weapons. Do you remember what the
cops were armed with?


32 posted on 12/03/2004 3:50:58 PM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: O.C. - Old Cracker
9MMs and 12 gauge shotguns IIRC.

At least until some kind gun store owner passed out some ARs to those hopelessly outgunned cops.

L

33 posted on 12/03/2004 4:01:06 PM PST by Lurker (As a matter of fact, I do serve Satan. Don't let that bother you. My duties are largely ceremonial.)
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To: Lurker

Your tagline says you serve the evil one. Is that true?


34 posted on 12/03/2004 4:32:37 PM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak
7.? ?ianapolis police officers were training to use M-16 rifles, with the weapons expected to be available to patrol officers by the end of the week, officials said.

Plenty of time for practice.

The Pistons won't be in town until 12 -25.

35 posted on 12/03/2004 4:36:27 PM PST by Freebird Forever
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To: Freebird Forever

Awww.... Christmas with the Pistons.


36 posted on 12/03/2004 4:57:05 PM PST by 4.1O dana super trac pak (Stop the open borders death cult)
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Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

To: O.C. - Old Cracker
Hardly.

It's called 'sarcasm'. I used that line once during dinner with the west coast Liberals in my family.

No offense meant to you.

L

38 posted on 12/03/2004 6:37:19 PM PST by Lurker (As a matter of fact, I do serve Satan. Don't let that bother you. My duties are largely ceremonial.)
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak

Why not cut to the chase and give the cops ground attack aircraft and artillery.

Domestic disturbance on Maple Street? No problem, take out the whole block.

Like Stalin said, "Better to hang 100 innocent men than let one guilty one go free."


39 posted on 12/03/2004 6:44:27 PM PST by NMC EXP (Choose one: [a] party [b] principle.)
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To: digger48

Pratice practice practice. You are right. 10 years ago I could drive 5 minutes and shoot. Now I have to drive 30 minutes. People want to build a sub division in every field and whine about noise. Then they put up their dang mercury vapor lights so that my telescope can't see the stars. I wish people from the city would stay there.


40 posted on 12/03/2004 7:19:15 PM PST by Conspiracy Guy (This space is available to advertise your service or product.)
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To: The Coopster

That's right, same as the 7.62 NATO, 7.62x51mm. The AK/SKS round, at 7.62x39, is a lot less powerful. The M-16's 5.56 mm round does not have the M-14 round's penetrating power and long range effectiveness.


41 posted on 12/04/2004 5:06:47 AM PST by libstripper
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To: libstripper

Thanks for the clarification on the cartridge length. I always forget which is which.

And while you are correct about long range effectiveness vs. the 5.56, they still penetrate pretty well, and I would submit that the GI weapons don't need to be effective any further out than the M16/AR15 is. You're talking sniper rounds/weapons, which are more likely to be chambered in the larger rounds you mentioned above (or a completely different round of a similar size). Additionally, I don't know if I like the idea of the larger round being issued to LEOs in an urban setting. Seems you'd want the lighter round for safety's sake.


42 posted on 12/04/2004 6:44:32 AM PST by The Coopster
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To: NMC EXP
Why not cut to the chase and give the cops ground attack aircraft and artillery.
Domestic disturbance on Maple Street? No problem, take out the whole block.
Like Stalin said, "Better to hang 100 innocent men than let one guilty one go free."

Sssshhhhh! Those black helicopters have super-sensitive listening devices!

43 posted on 12/04/2004 6:47:30 AM PST by The Coopster
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To: The Coopster

My argument for the heavier round comes from the LA shootout with the two perps wearing body armor and firing AKs. It only ended when one of them shot himself and the other had his legs shot out from under him. Even though the cops borrowed some AR-15s from a local gun store, leaving a couple of M1-As on the rack, they didn't seem to be able to penetrate the perps' body armor at the range they were shooting. An M1-A round (7.62x51mm) would have gone right through that armor and immediately stopped the subject.


44 posted on 12/04/2004 7:28:32 AM PST by libstripper
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To: 5Madman2
The great thing about the Mini 14

I like the Mini 30. :-)

45 posted on 12/04/2004 7:31:24 AM PST by RadioAstronomer
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To: libstripper

A valid argument, when we're talking body armor.

Maybe we should offer a wide assortment of weapons for the trunk.

If that happens, I might be inclined to sign up!


46 posted on 12/04/2004 11:55:35 AM PST by The Coopster
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak
I have a problem with this! I believe in my heart that this violates the "Posse Cummotatis[sp] of the Constitution. If I am wrong please tell me.
There is to be NO military or police connections ever! Training police to use military weapons is wrong. Yes some officers are reservists [GOD Bless them too!] If I read the documents right this is against the law!
47 posted on 12/04/2004 12:03:31 PM PST by TMSuchman (American by birth,rebel by choice, MARINE BY GOD!)
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To: TMSuchman

You could be right, I'm not an expert though.


48 posted on 12/04/2004 6:44:12 PM PST by 4.1O dana super trac pak (Stop the open borders death cult)
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To: SFC Chromey
Re: "If they remove the full auto funcion, it merely becomes a semi-automatic, which they could buy at any licensed gun dealer. "

I believe per BATF interpretation, once a receiver is a full auto, always a full auto regardless of internals. So these will need to be registered with the treasury boys whether they go fast or not.

49 posted on 12/06/2004 10:01:35 AM PST by LibTeeth
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