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Famous Atheist Now Believes in God
NY Newsday ^ | 12/9/04 | RICHARD N. OSTLING

Posted on 12/10/2004 7:08:12 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo

NEW YORK -- A British philosophy professor who has been a leading champion of atheism for more than a half-century has changed his mind. He now believes in God -- more or less -- based on scientific evidence, and says so on a video released Thursday.

At age 81, after decades of insisting belief is a mistake, Antony Flew has concluded that some sort of intelligence or first cause must have created the universe. A super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature, Flew said in a telephone interview from England.

(Excerpt) Read more at nynewsday.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antonyflew; atheism; atheist; atheists; convert; evolution; god; intelligentdesign; ssdd
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To: Allan

Hey fellow Canuck.

Probably because it's a different day. We've all seen countless threads that pointed to the same root story for innumerable polls prior to the November election, day after day, after day, ad nauseum.

I'm not on FR every day, so I appreciate the opportunity to catch up on some info that's been posted and chewed on by others, at an earlier date.

BTW, did you hear about the players offering to take a 24% pay cut as an incentive to the owners to get off their duffs and get the season started again?


61 posted on 12/10/2004 7:58:14 AM PST by ColoCdn (Neco eos omnes, Deus suos agnoset)
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To: Raycpa

"If God exists, is there an infinite number of Gods or finite number ? What is your best guess ?"

interesting question. I'm not sure what you are trying to get at, so I will make a guess, and it will be a complete and total guess.

I'll guess finite. 42. :)


62 posted on 12/10/2004 7:59:36 AM PST by pnome
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To: 2banana

Who attacks Jesus Christ "with viciousness"? Christians maybe, but Christ himself?


63 posted on 12/10/2004 8:00:34 AM PST by Killing Time
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To: BibChr
"Find out"... what?

The answer to the question you asked.

I know for sure we can find out what your opinions are about the bible. Not that anyone should care, but who knows, some people like to read about all kinds of unconventional opinions.

You must be having trouble getting hits on your opinion page. Jim usually doesn't like people self promoting their sites on his, but that's his call.

64 posted on 12/10/2004 8:01:00 AM PST by Protagoras (Christmas is not a secular holiday)
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To: Matchett-PI

Yes. Hence the differentiation between legalistic action and grace-founded responsiveness.


65 posted on 12/10/2004 8:01:50 AM PST by ColoCdn (Neco eos omnes, Deus suos agnoset)
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To: pnome

Are all 42 equally powerfull and all knowing ?


66 posted on 12/10/2004 8:02:02 AM PST by Raycpa (Alias, VRWC_minion,)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

100% it is amazing how fast you find God when you are looking at the end of the line. Regardless, I say to all who accept Christ welcome to the family.


67 posted on 12/10/2004 8:03:52 AM PST by weshess (I will stop hunting when the animals agree to quit jumping in front of my gun to commit suicide)
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To: Raycpa

"Do you think it was wrong for Christians to obtain political power to stop slavery ?"

Certainly not. But how about my other pet issue on these boards, marijuana. Is it right for Christians to say yes to wine, but no to grass? I don't want to get off track, but this is just an example.

How about, say, prayer in school. Christians don't want prayer in public school because they are worried about their children praying. No doubt those kids get plenty of prayer in, they want OTHER peoples children to pray.


68 posted on 12/10/2004 8:04:19 AM PST by pnome
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To: pnome
"Sorry, my mistake. Again, I am not a Christian, so please excuse my ignorance."

Excuse me. I didn't get the impression that you thought you were speaking out of what you considered to be ignorance when you wrote this:

"He has a good argument no doubt. However, it's a big step from his idea of God to the one you go to church to try to talk to." ~ pnome

69 posted on 12/10/2004 8:04:23 AM PST by Matchett-PI (All DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Sent to family --
Re this URL -- http://www.nynewsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-believing-atheist,0,985912.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines
I find it oddly empathetic with my feelings about religion. At the very least, it is a constructive, thought provoking article. If not, then it would remind of the old saw (aka truism) - 'None are so blind as those that will not see'.
I still ponder and appreciate the philosophical opinion of a great philosopher (name escapes me) that -
'" There must be a God for, coming to know man, if there were no God man would have created one"

Like I said- food for thought.

God protect our GI kids in harm's way, L+ve, R.


70 posted on 12/10/2004 8:04:46 AM PST by hoot33
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To: Taliesan
"When a person steps in the right direction, you don't beat him over the head for not stepping far enough."

THANK YOU!

I don't understand why anyone who calls himself a "Christian" is not REJOICING(!!!) at the statement this man has made.

Whether he is sincere or not, saying because he's old, or not...is not for us to judge. God can and will work miracles in the heart of a man who isn't hardened against Him. If this man really has opened up to the possibility that there is a God, then who are we to just decide that he will not also accept God into his heart and join his brothers and sisters in HEAVEN?!?!?

Why can we not just be happy that he has made a step in the right direction. One step must come before the second one can follow.

Praise God for touching this man's heart and I pray that He continue to sow His seeds of love in a place once untouched by light.
71 posted on 12/10/2004 8:04:56 AM PST by melbell (groovy)
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To: Protagoras
My, aren't you a fragrant little rose of sweetness today, even to your allies?

Happily, all the facts are laid out in my essays; nothing hidden. Folks can judge for themselves. You seem to find it personally threatening and in need of some attempt at dismissal. Deny it if you like; what's undeniable is, that's your affair.

Which isn't as happy a thing as it sounds at first blush.

And I'll start worrying about my unobtrusive little linked invitations, when Jim starts cracking down on folks who post large personal iconic graphics with every single post they write (see Sabertooth, Atomic Possum, etc.)

Dan
Biblical Christianity web site
Biblical Christianity message board
Biblical Christianity BLOG

72 posted on 12/10/2004 8:07:44 AM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: Matchett-PI

I do regret my previous syntax. I am not a Christian, but I do have some concept of the god Christians worship. My ignorance is in traditions.

Just that, the god that Flew describs is not the god Christians worship. My mistake on where it is Christians do thier worshiping.


73 posted on 12/10/2004 8:07:54 AM PST by pnome
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To: All
The people on this thread who are being sarcastic and treating Flew's change of heart with contempt might once have done the same for that greatest of twentieth-century Christian apologists, C.S. Lewis. There was a period when Lewis had turned from his hard-headed, hard-hearted atheism but had not yet accepted Christ.

Personally I don't see anything as craven as a CYA gesture in this philosopher's new understanding. He says he still doesn't believe in an afterlife, so what would he be trying to cover his @$$ for? Anyway, it's more difficult to change your mind at the end of your life, when your whole mind is oriented in a certain way. I find it commendable that this man is able to reverse his position and undergo what must be a certain amount of public humiliation in admitting that his whole life has been wrong. Such humility and moral courage will lead him down the path toward further enlightenment, and may perhaps even take him into the arms of Christ.

Be slow to criticize. No matter how mature a Christian you are, there are some who are yet further along on the path toward God than you are, and they do not look down on you.

74 posted on 12/10/2004 8:09:53 AM PST by Capriole
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To: pnome
Also, there is no afterlife, no heaven, no hell and certainly no devil.

You're pretty sure of yourself on those points without evidence...

75 posted on 12/10/2004 8:10:02 AM PST by frog_jerk_2004
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To: DennisR

...Look around - there are countless unmistakable hints that God exists...

Great tagline.

Exactly. It does not take much to see if you want to see.

Look at flowers. Accident would have created bland, simple designs. You see the work of One who chose to display beauty, color, uniqueness for survivability. Almost like an artist creating gifts of love to a world he created.

Look at the birds, insects, small animals - each unique and specific for their needs. Accident would have created only a few with very basic needs.

Look in the eyes of dogs and family pets. Why would they have been made by accident? But, from a God who saw the need of something that accepted man as he was, that provided comfort, joy, companionship and love, it can be seen as a wonderful gift from a loving God. Accident would not have cared.

Just look at any aspect of life around you and compare what accident would have provided - something simple, bland, with few variations. But what do you see - each totally created for its purpose, with millions of variations of design with each for a purpose for that creature.

Again - the work of an Artist who loves the world.


76 posted on 12/10/2004 8:10:03 AM PST by ClancyJ (Middle America is what makes America - not the Liberal "elitists" and the Media)
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To: Raycpa

"Are all 42 equally powerfull and all knowing ?"

Just another guess, but I'll say no they arn't. Each in charge of a different aspect of the universe. Again, just a wild guess.


77 posted on 12/10/2004 8:10:45 AM PST by pnome
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To: pnome

So its not Christians per se.


78 posted on 12/10/2004 8:11:10 AM PST by Raycpa (Alias, VRWC_minion,)
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To: pnome
Just another guess, but I'll say no they arn't. Each in charge of a different aspect of the universe. Again, just a wild guess.

If they are not equal, then what happens if they disagree or overlap ?

79 posted on 12/10/2004 8:13:12 AM PST by Raycpa (Alias, VRWC_minion,)
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To: frog_jerk_2004

"You're pretty sure of yourself on those points without evidence..."

And the pope is pretty sure I'm wrong without evidence. The claim that thier is a heaven, and the claim that there is not, have the same amount of evidence to back them up.


80 posted on 12/10/2004 8:13:19 AM PST by pnome
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