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To: Raycpa
Does it bother you that 2 million Khmer victims will go to Hell but some of their murderers will go to Heaven?

A little because I'm not the perfect judge who designed the world. Again, God gave some of us the gift of eternal life and didn't give it to others. But just because I might disagree with him doesn't make him less than God.

Is it a sin to disagree with God?

That is what Scripture says will happen, correct [unsaved go to Hell]?

Absolutely for folks like you who know the gospel. I'm not so sure about those who did not hear it.

How can you not be sure? Scripture says you are born into sin and only acceptance of Christ will keep you out of Hell. Where is the scriptural exception for those who did not hear it?

Let me make this clear. You are not worthy for God. Period. No discussion. You can drag any poor soul into this conversation and no matter how innocent you think they are or how wronged you think they are, there is not one of us that is acceptable for God. No matter what you do, no matter what good works you do you are no better in God's eyes than any mass murderer you want to drag into this conversation.

Fair enough.

All of us are condemned to death. God forgives certain death sentences for those who ask him to. That is mercy in my book.

All you need to do is ask him to have mercy on you and accept Jesus as you savior and you will be saved. Simple. I do however know that unlike those who are innocent of the knowledge about the gospel, you will go to hell unless you stop rejecting him.

Can you disagree with God without rejecting Him?

387 posted on 12/12/2004 5:56:02 PM PST by Ken H
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To: Ken H
This is much better than I can do

Can non-Christians go to Heaven?

Michael A. Covington – Beech Haven Baptist Church – November 28, 1999

1. Some preliminaries

a. No matter what provision God has made for people who never hear the Gospel, you are not one of them. (If you’re looking for an excuse, look somewhere else!)

b. Jesus clearly tells us to spread the Gospel. If we adopt beliefs that imply that evangelism is unnecessary, we’ve made a mistake somewhere.

c. Hell is not the punishment for failing to accept Christ as Saviour. It is the punishment for sins you committed long before you heard of Christ.

d. God does not owe anyone salvation. It is an undeserved gift that he can give, or refrain from giving, as He wishes.

2. How does anybody go to Heaven?

a. Because of our sins, we are separated from God and doomed to spend eternity separated from Him. This is the condition of all human beings, not just some of them.

b. To get to Heaven (i.e., to enjoy eternity with God), we need our sins forgiven.

c. It’s not enough for God just to want to forgive us; something objective had to be done to cancel our sins.

d. We must accept salvation; it is not applied to us automatically. We return to God voluntarily.

e. We get to Heaven by the merits of Jesus Christ, not by our own good works.

3. Which non-Christians go to Heaven, if any? Situations to consider:

a. Universalism: God loves everybody and saves everybody, whether they cooperate with Him or not.

Objection 1: Then why evangelize?

Objection 2: If God gave people the freedom to reject Him, why would he take it away again? If He planned to take it away, it isn’t really freedom.

b. People who cannot hear or respond to the Gospel.

0. Those who knew God but died in Old Testament times.

1. Those who die as infants or are severely mentally deficient.

2. Those to whom the Gospel is never preached, or who, due to prior prejudice or misinformation, are unable to understand it when they hear it.

3. Those who live a life of good works while practicing some other religion (or none).

Remember that good works do not save you. Enough said. But see the next case:

4. Those who seek God’s mercy while practicing some other religion (or none).

This is the interesting case.

Two clear Biblical teachings:

1. Salvation is made possible by the death of Christ on the cross. Apart from Christ and what he did, there is no salvation. (Acts 4:12, John 14:6; Lk 10:22)

2. Non-Christians can, at least in principle, perceive God’s righteousness and their need for His mercy. (Romans 1:18-20, 2:14-16; Acts 17:28)

Whatever we conclude will need to be faithful to both of these teachings.

My opinion is the following (and you are welcome to disagree):

a. It is possible for a non-Christian to realize his need for God’s mercy and seek it.

(Note: Although I think this is possible, I do not think it happens routinely. Missionaries report finding occasional cases of it.)

b. In my opinion, God will not turn away people who seek His mercy, even if their understanding of Him is vague and they lack historical knowledge of Christ. (Some of God’s people in the Old Testament knew little about Him and His works; one example appears to be Melchisedek.)

c. We should never rely on Christ to save people who have not heard the Gospel. We have our marching orders.

d. The Bible gives no statistics on how many people go to Hell. It does, however, clearly teach that it is possible to do so, and that evangelism is urgently needed.

I run as close to universalism as I can – which is not very close, because I’m constrained by the Bible.

392 posted on 12/13/2004 10:26:59 AM PST by Raycpa (Alias, VRWC_minion,)
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To: Ken H
Is it a sin to disagree with God?

Can you disagree and still love God with all your heart and all your mind and all your soul ? I sure think so. Has anyone in the bible disagreed with God ? Just about everyone i can think of. Even Jesus asked God to have the cup removed.

Can you disagree with God without rejecting Him?

I can. Not sure if others can. Heck, my wife and I disagree with each other plenty and we don't reject each other.

However, if you disagree with God's choice about who goes to heaven and then use that as an excuse to reject his gift of salvation you are rejecting his offer and that rejection will be honored by him. As it should be. You are in fact saying that the sacrifice and suffering of his son was not needed.

This would be like using a disagreement I had with my wife as an excuse to cheat on her.

395 posted on 12/13/2004 10:49:01 AM PST by Raycpa (Alias, VRWC_minion,)
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