Posted on 12/13/2004 5:04:17 PM PST by BJungNan
Who said the New Testament is anti-death penalty?
Mat 15:1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
Mat 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
Act 25:10 Then said Paul, I stand at Caesar's judgment seat, where I ought to be judged: to the Jews have I done no wrong, as thou very well knowest.
Act 25:11 For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar.
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2Pe 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
DON'T USE CHRIST'S ADMONITIONS AGAINST PERSONAL VENGEANCE [FORGIVE 70 X 7] AND HYPOCRITICAL SELF-RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT [LOG IN THE EYE AND THE WOMAN AT THE WELL] TO CLAIM GOD'S N.T. WORD CONTRADICTS HIS WORD IN THE O.T. THAT EMPOWERS AND CHARGES GOVERNMENTS WITH THE EXECUTION OF MRDERERS.
Gen 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
Num 35:31 Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death...Num 35:33 So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.
The bible has much to say about those who shed innocent blood. The penalties definitely not for a "modern liberal" frame of mind.
So,what kind of belief system do you embrace?
I am genuinely curious.
What about that dirtball that killed Samantha Runion?
Can't remember the guy's name of course, but the British doctor who writes for National Review under a pseudonym (Dr. Dalrymple, maybe?) had an article on this very phenomenon a couple of years back.
He also volunteers time as a physician at a prison, and gets to talk to the inmates - and to a man/woman/whatever they all claim that somehow whatever vileness they had committed, just wasn't their fault.
"What, you don't believe Blake's "Oh, I think I left my gun inside. Oh, here it is! Oh, damn, someone shot my con-artist wife while I was looking for my gun. Oh, well, it couldn't have been me, my gun was here, you all saw that" defense?"
LOL, you've summarized that perfectly.
Excellent post!
The two Scriptures you quoted (see below) definitely show support of "death as punishment" in the New Testament.
I had never seen the connection made in the death-penalty debate among Christians with these two Scriptures. Thanks!
Part of me feels the death penalty is justified in certain cases (such as Scott's case today). But in the back of my mind I always wondered how God really felt about the death penalty.
These Scriptures quoting Jesus and the Apostle Paul really are eye-openers.
Your post:
"Who said the New Testament is anti-death penalty?
Mat 15:1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
Mat 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
Act 25:10 Then said Paul, I stand at Caesar's judgment seat, where I ought to be judged: to the Jews have I done no wrong, as thou very well knowest.
Act 25:11 For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar."
What would be worse than death row would be life in prison forced to watch daily reruns of the Greta Van Peterson coverage of his trial.
Funny how quickly they dispatched Tim McVeigh.
Jesus Christ.
I'm pro-death penalty, but don't toss up easy ones like that. :)
I've visited several people on death row in Texas. They can't come to the visiting room so I had to go back to their cell block. They have no contact with other inmates. They are let out into a small recreation area one at a time for exercise a couple times a week.
That sounds an awful lot like a Titanic mentality to me. Infallable. Unsinkable.
Just last week a man in Texas was released after 17 years on death row. Even the judge in the case said he it was a travesty. Don't have the guys name but it was an interview on one of the major networks I saw.
Maybe someone else remembers seeing the interview. It was in the last 10 days.
No, actually I was talking about protecting our civil rights. Which would be the same as in the case of abortion. Closure for 10 families (or 10 x 10 families) should not come at the expense of society losing one of its innocent citizens.
No, you don't decide an issue like this on a case by case basis. Remember, I said I was against the death penalty. Not because there are not guilty people out there that deserve it. But because there are innocent people out there the will be found guilty that don't.
I would have no problem in this case. Granted we don't know exactly how Laci died, but I can imagine poor Conner suddenly suffocating in the womb, kicking to try and get out and get a breath of air before he finally expired from lack of oxygen. It must have been nothing short of a grotesque way to die. Scott, on the other hand, gets a lethal injection and will go peacefully to sleep like a dog when it's euthanized. Too bad California no longer has the electric chair.
"Now, he'll have his own cell and will be isolated from the Bubbas who would make his prison stay much more uncomfortable."
And it will go on for years and years and appeals and appeal and millions of dollars for attorneys, etc. at the tax-payer's expense. The death penalty with all the appeals, etc. costs MORE to the state than a life term.
How about pro slow-death-penalty?
Jesus told us:
Matt. 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I say to you, Do not resist an evildoer. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also; 40 and if anyone wants to sue you and take your coat, give your cloak as well; 41 and if anyone forces you to go one mile, go also the second mile. 42 Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you. ...
I find it hard to reconcile this with my desire to see this scum die, but our Lord might have better plans.
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