Posted on 12/22/2004 7:05:54 AM PST by Graybeard58
With all the accolades heaped on Robert Ziegler last night, it looked at times like his bosses were giving him a commendation rather than firing him.
Robert Ziegler, right, hugs Papillion-La Vista High Principal Jim Glover after being fired by the district's school board Tuesday.
Ziegler, 24, a Papillion-La Vista High School math teacher, was described as a "a marvelous young man," "an asset to the community," "honest, candid, capable."
"I hope my son can turn out to be as fine a gentleman as Mr. Ziegler," said Rick Black, an assistant superintendent for the Papillion-La Vista schools.
But Ziegler's bosses also said he repeatedly disobeyed their orders to stop preaching and start teaching.
Black and two other administrators said Ziegler had repeatedly talked about his personal religious beliefs in class, triggering complaints from students and a parent, and would not stop, even after his bosses told him it could cost him his job.
After taking testimony from the administrators and from Ziegler for two hours and 40 minutes Tuesday night, the Papillion-La Vista School Board voted 6-0 to terminate Ziegler's teaching contract on grounds of insubordination and unprofessional conduct.
Board President Valerie Fisher said the evidence was "clear." The board deliberated about 50 minutes.
Afterward, Ziegler said he would not challenge the decision in court. He did not have a lawyer, and he called no witnesses.
About 75 people - including some of his family members from the Riverton, Neb., area - attended the special hearing, which Ziegler requested to plead his case to the board.
Ziegler was a second-year teacher who got his bachelor's degree from Bethel College in Mishawaka, Ind. Bethel is an evangelical Christian college affiliated with the Missionary Church.
At the hearing, he told board members that his case was their opportunity to "make a stand for God."
"You're either for him or against him" he said.
Ziegler said that as a teacher he saw 120 students a day, many with "issues and worries" that were barriers to learning. By giving up their cares to Jesus, the students would be free to learn, he said.
The district's lawyer, Kelley Baker, however, asserted that the law clearly prohibits teachers from imposing their religious beliefs on students and from praying with or in the presence of them.
In a legal brief for the board, Baker wrote that school districts that fail to stop improper practices regarding religion can be held liable for a teacher's actions.
"School administrators have both the right and the obligation to direct teachers not to engage in such activity during school, and to stop it if they are already engaging in it," Baker wrote.
Jerry Kalina, an assistant principal at the high school, testified that a co-teacher from Ziegler's classroom first reported Oct. 4 that Ziegler was talking to students about his religious beliefs in class.
Ziegler was told to stop, but the co-teacher reported on Nov. 1 that he was doing it again, Kalina said.
A few days later, a student came to Kalina's office and said Ziegler was talking about his faith and that it upset her, Kalina said. The student said Ziegler had stopped her in the hall and asked if he could pray for her. She told him she felt uncomfortable while he prayed.
The girl's mother complained on Nov. 8 that she expected her daughter to learn math, not religion, in the class, Kalina said.
Kalina said he again told Ziegler to stop.
He said Ziegler was encouraged to talk to his minister and to contact former Cornhuskers receivers coach Ron Brown to get advice on how to juggle his beliefs and his teaching duties.
On Nov. 16, a student again raised the issue of Ziegler speaking about religion in class, Kalina said. The student said Ziegler wrote on the board "What inspires you to love people?" and another time "If you were to die today, what would you put on your tombstone, and why?"
The next day, a teacher reported that a student was not doing well in algebra because she felt uncomfortable asking Ziegler for help, Kalina said.
Ziegler was placed on administrative leave, with pay, on Nov. 18.
Kalina testified that he would "absolutely" like to have Ziegler back in the classroom, but only if he met one condition: "That he stop talking about Jesus Christ."
"My opinion is Mr. Ziegler was hired to teach math," he said. "And math instruction must come first."
Ziegler testified that his faith was too strong to set it aside.
"What they are telling me to do is in direct contradiction to what my authority, my God, is telling all believers to do," Ziegler said.
He admitted that on some days he spent up to 10 minutes per class discussing religion, though school officials said they had reports of longer periods.
Jim Glover, the principal at Papillion-La Vista High School, said Ziegler wasn't the first teacher he'd seen with strong beliefs.
"Over the last 32 years, there have been a number who have struggled as Rob has struggled. All were able to eventually make the separation," he said.
School board member Jim Thompson said that in eight years on the board, the hearing was the "toughest" meeting he'd attended.
Thompson said he hoped Ziegler could find a teaching job where professing his faith is "not only legal, but encouraged."
Cassie Young, 16, a student in one of Ziegler's pre-algebra classes, was among several students who left the hearing teary-eyed after the board announced its decision.
Young said the decision was "one more way of kicking God out of school."
"The law of man is wrong, and one day everyone will know that," she said.
Spoken like a Libertarian with anarchist leanings.
I think we can assume he was proselytizing because he stated that he will not pursue the case in court. He seems a committed young man who understands that what he did was in violation of the Constitution and hence will not pursue it further at the expense of the state and his own pocket.
It is appropriate to explain this to your children (if you so determine); it is not an approproate usage of mathematics class time, especially were you told it was not appropriate by the principal.
Why even hire math teachers, just put in a computer dvd that throws random math problems and explains it with a monotone voice. /sarcasm
So what?
-the morality aspect -did you tell your children that bisexuality and or homosexsuality was wrong? That's What.
"Spewing Islam" is most appropriate in this nation and it is already being done. Ir is Christians who get fired for daring to speak of Christ.
http://www.dawanet.com/methods/publicschool.dawapublic.asp
"-the morality aspect -did you tell your children that bisexuality and or homosexsuality was wrong? That's What."
Of course I did; I always endeavor to tell them the truth.
""Spewing Islam" is most appropriate in this nation and it is already being done. Ir is Christians who get fired for daring to speak of Christ. "
BINGO!
"It is appropriate to explain this to your children (if you so determine); it is not an approproate usage of mathematics class time, especially were you told it was not appropriate by the principal."
I dont teach Math.
j/k
I understand your point, but I do think that it is not inappropriate for a MAth teacher to cover subjects the students bring up, say the recent Alexander the Great movie and then ask if he really were homosexual.
The firing of this teacher for using no more than 10 minutes of class time in perhaps nothing more than answering questions I think very inappropriate, unconstitutional and based on an erroneous interpretation of the First Amendment.
I was just pointing out how your position coincides with the NEA position which allows them to get away from teaching the basics and concentrate on not hurting the egos of the students.
This is in a letter, not an official government document, correct? If that is the case, then you can give it no more credit than you can the letter from President Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association that puts forth the notion of separation of church and state. Neither hold any water, but are just Presidents opining.
Then I suggest that your employer sets limits on your "first amendment rights". Right?
This reminds me of "Dead Poet's Society". Mr. Ziegler, I stand on my desk and applaud!
"This is in a letter, not an official government document, correct? If that is the case, then you can give it no more credit than you can the letter from President Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association that puts forth the notion of separation of church and state. Neither hold any water, but are just Presidents opining."
But they are useful for showing the intent of the Founding Fathers and noe of them ever expressed a view of the First Amendment that is the apparent consensus of Constitutional scholars today.
Nobody has hindered him from practicing his faith. He has been hindered from proselytyzing (sp?) while on the job.
Oh yes!
I fully realize that successful teaching is more than just the subject. However, I don't believe preaching in a math classroom at a public school is appropriate. There is a time and a place for that, a math classroom during the school day is neither of those.
Oh, and "what Dick Cheney said to Pat Leahy"!
No. More of your lies. He used a lot more than just 10 minutes. It was a daily thing with him. In the classroom, in the halls, etc. And he was suspended, not fired. He was only fired when he refused to abide by a direct instruction to cease.
But then you don't believe that the employer has the right to fire an employee for disobeying a directive and not following job guidelines.
"No. More of your lies. He used a lot more than just 10 minutes. It was a daily thing with him. In the classroom, in the halls, etc. And he was suspended, not fired. He was only fired when he refused to abide by a direct instruction to cease. "
You acuse me of lyhing and them lie in the same statement, heheh.
He WAS fired for his religious expression whether htey first suspended him or not.
And he admitted to speaking on the subject FOR UP TO 10 MINUTES in a class.
So again, yhou are the liar, not me, turkey.
'Oh yes!'
Oh, no it does not, turkey.
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