Posted on 12/26/2004 4:36:26 PM PST by Brilliant
The price of unreliability is getting outrageous. If you want to buy what Consumer Reports has determined will be the least reliable sedan available in the U.S., you're going to have to shell out between $75,000 and $125,000. That's because the dubious honor went to a car Consumer Reports also calls "sumptuous," "quiet and luxurious" and "a delight to drive": the Mercedes-Benz S-Class.
Mercedes-Benz (a division of DaimlerChrysler) has been struggling with quality problems over the last few years. But the rest of the list of the least reliable sedans reads like the valet lot of a Davos hotel at convention time. Ten of the 11 are European-made and include some of the most celebrated and technologically advanced sedans on the market, including 3 Mercedes-Benz models, 2 BMWs and 2 Jaguars (see table). The average price: $51,000, compared with an average price of $32,000 for the mostly Japanese vehicles on the list of most reliable sedans.
The problems, says David Champion, a former Land Rover and Nissan engineer who runs the auto testing program for Consumer Reports, are electronic. "The engineers have gone a little wild," he says. "They've put in every bell and whistle that they think of, and sometimes they don't have the attention to detail to make these systems work."
The Mercedes-Benz S-Class has a computer-driven suspension system that reduces body roll as the vehicle whips around a corner. It has cruise control that automatically slows the car down if it gets too close to another car. Its seats are adjustable 14 ways, and they are ventilated by a system that uses eight fans to whisk away perspiration.
But drivers who responded to Consumer Reports' surveys cited "serious" problems with the vehicles' electrical systems, power equipment and accessories. The S430 Consumer Reports used for its own test came with a broken "back" button on the navigation system. One small mistake in entering a destination address made the system unusable.
Mercedes-Benz doesn't believe there's a problem, saying in a statement: "The data utilized by Consumer Reports is volunteered by [Consumer Reports] readers, not verified, and does not correlate to our own data or that of other surveys." In recent J.D. Power and Associates studies Mercedes-Benz scored better than the industry average for initial quality but worse than the industry average for longer-term dependability.
BMW says it has fixed the problems with its 7 Series-but not by making the vehicles any simpler. "People drive our cars because they're sophisticated," says spokesman David Buchko. "Our goal is not to take stuff out of the car but to make what's in the car as reliable as possible." Sales of the high-end sedans for both BMW and Mercedes-Benz are suffering. Through the end of October, 7 Series sales were down 19% from 2003 and S-Class sales were off 12%.
I think the answer is related to why media people, entertainers, and many CEOs are almost always leftists.
They are good at manipulating people, and can never seem to avoid thinking that they are equally as good at designing automobiles, nuclear plants, airplanes...
The MOPAR slant 6 was featured.
Seems it had better performance than indicated by the engineering.
After much study as to why, they determined that MOPAR "accidentally" produced the perfect intake manifold. Of course they did that to accommodate that slant!
The truth is compared to 20 years ago, cars ARE a lot more reliable. All that solid state circuitry, computer monitoring, more sophisticated controls has made for greater reliability even as the parts inside grow more complex. It makes a car more difficult to work on but in some ways easier since internal diagnostics take the hassle out for techs of figuring out exactly what went wrong. They usually can find a failed part and replace it and have you back on the road in short order. Of course maintenance costs have gone up but the trade-off is you might need to bring it in say, twice a year for repair work. Less time in the shop and more time to play with your adult toy. I'll take today's cars over the vintage clunkers.
In general, I agree, but I dearly love my Grohe "Lady-Lux Plus" pullout kitchen faucet. It's beautiful both to the eye and from an engineering standpoint. The "action" is a pleasure to the fingers.
They used to have a reputation for being durable. Needless to say, its hard to find finished goods made in Germany on account of the high labor costs involved.
Absolutely. I haven't used my set of feeler-gages to set the point gap in a car for forty years ;-)
There are still facets of German engineering that are admirable.
Many years ago, when I was going out with someone, I went down her house to see her. Her mother told me she was out back.
Her legs were sticking out from under the car, the drive shaft and transmission were laying next to it, and she was busy replacing the clutch.
That was the day I started shopping for a diamond.
We will be married 39 years this September.
That is why the feminist threads infuriate me: If someone wants equality, believe in yourself, and BE equal.
The nice thing about Audi is when you Lease, all service and maintainence issues are covered 100%...exceptions are tires (unless defective) and any self-inflicted damage.
So we have spent virtually nothing for the past 5 years. Of course, it's built into the price of the car, and thus the lease payment (nothing is FREE!) but at least you know what that is and you have no variable expenses during the life of the lease while under warranty, which is 48 mo/48,000 miles.
Well it certainly wasn't because of Chevy Vegas, Ford Mustang II's, Ford Edsels, AMC Gremlins, or Chrylser K-cars that's for sure
Come to think of it, I wasn't because of Panther tanks, either....
Reality is that the Germans had us out-engineered in just about everything except aircraft. It's no fluke that today's M1A1 Abrams tank has a German main gun. It's pretty amazing that a little bitty country the size of Germany wreaked the havoc they did.
Yep.
And when my '57 Pontiac Chieftan hits the streets again, it'll be because I took it all apart and put it back together myself.
No power steering, power brakes, power windows, cruise control, a/c, or anything that's prone to failure.
It's rudimentary transportation, but two tons of fun!
I-Drive?
Yeah. I drive.
Yes, some -not all - are and that's attributable to two developments: Fuel Injection and electronic ignitions. A 20 year old car with these features is just as reliable. It's the carburetors and mechanical (points) ignitions that caused most all the trouble. I've a couple of '80's German cars that run as well as a new one. Love 'em to death.
The rest is fluff. Except the auto-dimming rear view mirror (sarcasm)
This is a reocuring problem with the Germans. I WW2 the german 105 mm howizer breech mechanism had 26 or 27 parts. The US breech had 7 parts. Anyone want to guess which one last longer in the field being maitained by soldiers with barely a high education?
As for my I drive a Jeep 6 cylinder, pretty basic model.
The F-40 ?
You'll need to post pics on your profile when that's done. I'm working on a motorcycle "project" right now meself. :^)
How does your wife feel about hybrid Z-cars? Here's one of the more impressive I've seen (cut and paste these urls to see the videos):
The car has a supercharged 383 cubic inch Chevy LT-1, backed by a T-56 (6-speed) manual transmission.
http://www.adata.com/movies/Darius-240Z-R1.mpeg
http://www.adata.com/movies/Darius-240Z-full.mpeg
http://www.adata.com/movies/Darius-240Z-sideways.mpeg
The sticker in the trunk reads B4U. It also has the trailering pkg, V92, and a posi, G80. The posi gets a 3.23 ratio, which splits the mileage/acceleration conundrum nicely in a family car.
the Jag is a Ford!!
That's exactly why the term "resto-mod" is often seen in car enthusiast magazines these days. Take a classic car and add modern amenities without permanently altering the vehicle and you've got the optimum setup. You can now buy electronic fuel injection setups that look like either a trio of Stromberg carburetors (for the old-school "hot rod" look) or a Hilborn mechanical fuel injection setup, complete with spun aluminum velocity stacks.
Only someone with a sharp eye will spot the electrical connections and know that an engine control computer is on board. Between an EFI setup and a modern overdrive-equipped transmission, you can even get respectable mileage out of a classic car or truck.
Jaguars have become more reliable since the company was purchased by Ford.
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