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Venezuela identifies 'idle' farms
BBC ^ | Jan 4 2004

Posted on 01/05/2005 11:55:47 AM PST by george wythe

Venezuelan authorities have identified more than 500 farms, including 56 large estates, as idle as it continues with its controversial land reform policy. Under a 2001 land law, the government can tax or seize unused farm sites.

A further 40,000 farms are yet to be inspected, the state's National Land Institute has told Associated Press.

Vice president Jose Vicente Rangel has said farmers and ranchers with their titles in order and their lands productive have "nothing to fear."

Critics of the land reform policy claim president Hugo Chavez is trying to enforce a communist-style economic programme that ignores property rights and will damage the country.

Land owners claim the National Land Institute has made mistakes in classifying lands as public or private.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Extended News
KEYWORDS: agrarianreform; communism; hugochavez; latinamerica; propertyrights; rangel; venezuela; venzuela

1 posted on 01/05/2005 11:55:49 AM PST by george wythe
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To: george wythe

Didn't Saloth Sar try this?


2 posted on 01/05/2005 11:58:20 AM PST by SpaceBar
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To: george wythe

Jimmy Carter-Castro must be so proud.


3 posted on 01/05/2005 11:58:28 AM PST by MisterRepublican ("I must go. I must be elusive.")
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To: george wythe

Hunger and starvation is a'coming


4 posted on 01/05/2005 11:59:41 AM PST by 2banana (They want to die for Islam and we want to kill them)
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It seems that the government strategy is to question the private ownership of farms by asking the owners to jump through unreasonable hoops:

Under the law, private farms may also be seized if owners do not use the land sufficiently for agriculture or if they fail to prove they obtained the property legally.

Of course, foreign owned farms will be the first targets:
A 32,000-acre ranch owned by a British cattle company is among those considered "partly idle" and its property titles are not in order, Otaiza said Tuesday. The El Charcote ranch sits on land previously owned by the government and the British Vestey Group has failed to prove it legally acquired the land, Otaiza added.

The government could expropriate part of the land and impose a production plan on Agroflora, the Vestey subsidiary that operates the ranch.

Agroflora has been fighting to oust more than 600 squatters who have now taken over roughly 90 percent of the ranch's land, according to Alejandro Arcay, the company's lawyer.


5 posted on 01/05/2005 12:01:54 PM PST by george wythe
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To: george wythe

I'm betting that the American liberals are watching with keen interest. They're thinking, "Could we get away with something like that?"


6 posted on 01/05/2005 12:02:59 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: george wythe

The longer Chavez rules, the more suffering there will be. He should have been chopped off at the knees a couple of years ago.


7 posted on 01/05/2005 12:05:45 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Brilliant

I believe we already have similar laws. Idle land can be claimed by people who live on it after a length of time.


8 posted on 01/05/2005 12:09:58 PM PST by twigs
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To: george wythe

Wow...this sounds suspiciously like 'nationalization' of property (actually, thats precisely what it is.) I think we all know what that leads to...


9 posted on 01/05/2005 12:09:58 PM PST by Banach-Tarski (get US out of the UN)
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To: Brilliant
Actually IMO we have things that are pretty close to that right here. Consider the tax policies that impose inheritance taxes, property taxes that have no link to services actually used, needed or demanded by the property owner and a host of other costs of simply owning land irrespective of what use it is put to.
10 posted on 01/05/2005 12:16:36 PM PST by drt1
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To: twigs

You're talking about adverse possession, I think. That's not the same thing. That is just a statute of limitations which says that if you possess land thinking it's yours, and someone shows up one day claiming it's his, you can keep it if you've had possession for a long enough time, because the statute of limitations for the opposing party's claim has passed.

Chavez is simply trying to take land from people who aren't using it. Different animal.


11 posted on 01/05/2005 12:16:37 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: Banach-Tarski
I'm trying to find a silver lining on this. There is a strong chance that new owners will turn against Chavez in the future, sincethat socialist land reform is 'progressive.'

First, the socialists will confiscate foreign-owned land and large estates.

Next, the small farmers will be 'encouraged' to join government-owned cooperatives and to sell their foodstuffs only to government-owned warehouses.

Finally, the small farmers who fail to become government serfs will be called 'CIA agents, counterrevolutionaries, and petit bourgeois' and persecuted.

See Soviet Union, Cuba, etc.

12 posted on 01/05/2005 12:17:23 PM PST by george wythe
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To: drt1

Don't forget about eminent domain where if WalMart wants your land, they just convice the city council that more taxes would be collected if you are removed and the land is given to WalMart.


13 posted on 01/05/2005 12:24:28 PM PST by KarlInOhio (In a just world, Arafat would have died at the end of a rope.)
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To: george wythe
I am looking for a silver lining too, but Chavez is getting a lot of help from Castro and he has proven to be very durable. The are Cuban cadres throughout Venezuela and it is going to be very hard to organize any real effort to oust Chavez. The best opportunity was lost when the coup failed. Fellow Traveler Jimma Carter has ALSO legitimized Chavez.
14 posted on 01/05/2005 12:32:07 PM PST by Truth29
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To: george wythe

It is time for the Terror phase of Party power consolidation.

The Genocide will follow in due course.


15 posted on 01/05/2005 12:32:47 PM PST by headsonpikes (Spirit of '76 bttt!)
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To: george wythe

Why all the complaining?

It worked great in Zimbabwe didn't it?


16 posted on 01/05/2005 12:38:43 PM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: george wythe
Vice president Jose Vicente Rangel has said farmers and ranchers with their titles in order and their lands productive have "nothing to fear."

This is the same lie that Castro said. Death is sure to follow.

17 posted on 01/05/2005 12:43:30 PM PST by KC_Conspirator (I am poster #48)
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To: farmfriend; Cincinatus' Wife


18 posted on 01/05/2005 12:47:36 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP (Make all taxes truly voluntary)
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To: george wythe
Hmm... Where are the environmentalists? They are always interested in reserving land out of productive use so that it is pristine and idle. You would think they would be all over this blatant attempt to degrade the environment by demanding that land not be idle. /mega sarcasm
19 posted on 01/05/2005 12:54:21 PM PST by drt1
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To: SpaceBar
Didn't Saloth Sar try this?

The property of this country is absolutely concentred in a very few hands, having revenues of from half a million of guineas a year downwards. These employ the flower of the country as servants, some of them having as many as 200 domestics, not laboring. They employ also a great number of manufacturers and tradesmen, and lastly the class of laboring husbandmen. But after all there comes the most numerous of all classes, that is, the poor who cannot find work. I asked myself what could be the reason so many should be permitted to beg who are willing to work, in a country where there is a very considerable proportion of uncultivated lands? These lands are undisturbed only for the sake of game. It should seem then that it must be because of the enormous wealth of the proprietors which places them above attention to the increase of their revenues by permitting these lands to be labored. I am conscious that an equal division of property is impracticable, but the consequences of this enormous inequality producing so much misery to the bulk of mankind, legislators cannot invent too many devices for subdividing property, only taking care to let their subdivisions go hand in hand with the natural affections of the human mind. The descent of property of every kind therefore to all the children, or to all the brothers and sisters, or other relations in equal degree, is a politic measure and a practicable one. Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions or property in geometrical progression as they rise. Whenever there are in any country uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right. The earth is given as a common stock for man to labor and live on. If for the encouragement of industry we allow it to be appropriated, we must take care that other employment be provided to those excluded from the appropriation. If we do not, the fundamental right to labor the earth returns to the unemployed. It is too soon yet in our country to say that every man who cannot find employment, but who can find uncultivated land, shall be at liberty to cultivate it, paying a moderate rent. But it is not too soon to provide by every possible means that as few as possible shall be without a little portion of land. The small landholders are the most precious part of a state.

-- Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Oct. 28, 1785 -- PROPERTY AND NATURAL RIGHT


20 posted on 01/05/2005 1:00:21 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: george wythe

maybe they'll unload the city people out into the countryside, as the cambodians did under pol pot.


21 posted on 01/05/2005 1:02:50 PM PST by ken21 (if you didn't see it on tv, then it didn't happen! (/s))
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To: george wythe

Guess he took lessons from Mugabe but failed to notice the effects on food production later on.
I wonder how long it'ss be before Citgo pumps go dry here.


22 posted on 01/05/2005 1:07:50 PM PST by 1066AD
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To: Brilliant

Amend you statement to .... "Chavez is simply trying to take land ."

... and you hav ethe jist of it.

LAND GRAB BY A BULLY, pure and simple.

It worked in Zimbabwe, why not here?


23 posted on 01/05/2005 1:09:50 PM PST by WOSG (Liberating Iraq - http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com)
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To: Brilliant

"I'm betting that the American liberals are watching with keen interest. They're thinking, "Could we get away with something like that?"

I have .45 good reasons why liberals should not try this in America.


24 posted on 01/05/2005 1:42:30 PM PST by PeterFinn (Liberals are a greater threat to the USA than are Islamofascists.)
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To: twigs

"Idle land can be claimed by people who live on it after a length of time."

I can't speak for the rest of the country, but in California squatters have no rights *unless* they have paid the taxes on the otherwise unencumbered property for five consecutive years. Recorded deeds of Trust have primacy in order of filing subject to subjugation regardless of this point of Title Law.


25 posted on 01/05/2005 1:51:59 PM PST by PeterFinn (Liberals are a greater threat to the USA than are Islamofascists.)
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To: Willie Green
Some disclosure needs to go with that letter by Jefferson. First it was to the Reverend James Madison, a cousin of the famous James Madison. Secondly, Jefferson was in France at the time, and the country he is referring to in the letter is France. Jefferson was instrumental in 1776 in overturning an English law called the Law of Entails in which the oldest son of a family inherited all the property of the parents. It was a law intended to create an aristocracy. France must have a had a similar law, and would explain this statement by Jefferson in the letter:
The descent of property of every kind therefore to all the children, or to all the brothers and sisters, or other relations in equal degree, is a politic measure and a practicable one.

26 posted on 01/05/2005 2:04:56 PM PST by Moonman62 (Federal Creed: If it moves tax it. If it keeps moving regulate it. If it stops moving subsidize it.)
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To: george wythe; abbi_normal_2; Ace2U; adam_az; Alamo-Girl; Alas; alfons; alphadog; amom; ...
Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.
27 posted on 01/05/2005 6:21:33 PM PST by farmfriend ( Congratulation. You are everything we've come to expect from years of government training.)
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To: farmfriend

BTTT!!!!!!!


28 posted on 01/06/2005 3:10:50 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: KarlInOhio
Show me where Walmart has done this.
29 posted on 01/06/2005 5:40:40 AM PST by razorback-bert
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To: razorback-bert
Show me where Walmart has done this.

Alabaster, Alabama, is the one which came to mind right away. WalMart was using another company to do the dirty work, but the land was being seized to be able to put in a WalMart. I don't know what happened to this plan after the spotlight of national publicity was turned on it.

Another attempt in Arvada, Colorado, was smacked down by the Colorado Supreme Court where the property had been declared an "urban blight" two decades before. The owners fixed up the property but the city tried to use that 1981 designation for running the owners out to use the land for a WalMart parking lot.

There are others. Just google for Walmart and eminent domain.

30 posted on 01/06/2005 6:54:14 AM PST by KarlInOhio (In a just world, Arafat would have died at the end of a rope.)
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To: george wythe; Libertarianize the GOP

Are your papers in order?!

Zimbabwe II

Cuba II


31 posted on 01/06/2005 12:38:18 PM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; Libertarianize the GOP; farmfriend

Didn't Chavez just return from a trip to China where there was a mutual pledge of eternal admiration? Isn't China looking to South America, not only for oil, but for arable land to feed its people? Couldn't this appropriation of idle lands be in part to make land available to China farm cooperatives to set up shop in Venezuela?

Just wondering....


32 posted on 01/06/2005 12:45:55 PM PST by hedgetrimmer
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To: hedgetrimmer
Not sure about the Chinese interest in in the farms but China is going to be looking to export millions of excess Chinese men to other countries so that they can find wives and cement Chinese influence.
33 posted on 01/06/2005 1:14:45 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP (Make all taxes truly voluntary)
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