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Proposal for the Free Republic High School Diploma.
Free Republic ^ | 1/8/05 | Kevin O'Malley

Posted on 01/08/2005 2:35:26 PM PST by Kevin OMalley

We have been discussing inexpensive ways to fast track kids through high school to avoid the liberal agenda:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1315730/posts?page=84#84

The thread title was not well thought out, because some parents might instinctively skip over it due to attached stigma, whether real or imagined.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: ab2607; assessment; chspe; clep; college; diploma; education; equivalency; fire; ged; generaleducation; highschool; homeschool; homeschooling; homeschoollist; ihatehighschool; iwantout; kidswantout; liberalagenda; nea; proficiency; psat; publiceducation; publicschools; sat; scholasticaptitude; school; schools; skiphighschool; students; teachers
Join us in the discussion.
1 posted on 01/08/2005 2:35:26 PM PST by Kevin OMalley
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To: Kevin OMalley

Here's the link.




http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1315730/posts?page=84#84


2 posted on 01/08/2005 2:39:33 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Kevin OMalley
Innovative idea, but for me personally this is a tough call. Expecting mass sums of children to scoot off to college at the tender age of 14 could deprive them of my own similar fond memories of four years of high school, i.e., the girls, sports, and ESPECIALLY debating my liberal journalism teacher, to the point where he turned red in the face, speechless, after losing an argument, embarrassed, as the rest of the students laughed and looked on. That was but one priceless moment I'll never forget.
3 posted on 01/08/2005 2:47:25 PM PST by streetrepair
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To: streetrepair

Just think, instead you could've been debating your liberal Comp I teacher in college, LOL!

My son started full time in our local college at 15. He's 16 now and about to finish his 2nd year with enough credits for an AA, but he's going to continue in the program for another year...what would be his senior year in high school.

The main problem I've found with this (other than having to drive him back and forth to the campus the first year because he wasn't old enough for a driver's license yet) is that my 16 year old doesn't really have a clue about what he'd like to major in.

That's why we're staying in the dual enrollment program for another year. At 16 his ambitions consist of being a professional rock climber or a whitewater rafting guide, LOL.

But he seems to have a propensity for math and science, so once he'd met his general reqs. we just kept building on that, taking each subsequent math course and science course.

If he gets to the point where he doesn't understand the math or can't comprehend the science, that's okay, we'll change directions, but in the meantime, we're following that course.

He's going to read a book on the different Engineering professions, right now he's more inclined toward Chemistry than the other sciences, so we'll see.

Of course, we've told him once he has a degree, if he still wants to be a whitewater rafting guide, and it's okay with his wife (when he's married) if he makes only $15,000 a year, then it's okay with us, LOL!


4 posted on 01/08/2005 3:00:55 PM PST by dawn53
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To: Kevin OMalley
To fast track a kid through an high school equivalent (not too difficult, given the dumbing down of the curriculum) and preferably to give the child more, one would have to start with the basic realization that one is talking about a school program for gifted (and even extremely gifted) children.
If the program is to be organized beyond home schooling by a single family, one would immediately be faced with the pupil selection - if you admit only the kids with IQ 150 and higher, you will have to turn away a kid with IQ 149 (and his/her parents with ACLU lawyers).
Thus the proposed program would have to be private (to keep PC out), tuition-free (so that it could - as it should - discriminate. Paying customer has rights; recipient of largesse does not) - and thus will have to cost a bundle.
5 posted on 01/08/2005 3:10:42 PM PST by GSlob
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To: streetrepair

Don't forget the drugs, PC policies like being escorted to the bathroom or not being able to wear red/white/&blue, race riots, violence, asinine social interactions, etc.


6 posted on 01/08/2005 3:13:05 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: dawn53
At 16 his ambitions consist of being a professional rock climber or a whitewater rafting guide,

Well rock climbers don't make a lot but whitewater rafting guides can rake in the moola.

7 posted on 01/08/2005 3:14:36 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum europe vincendarum (V minus 6 and counting))
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To: dawn53

"The main problem I've found with this... is that my 16 year old doesn't really have a clue about what he'd like to major in..."

***But the main point is that a 16 year old with as many college credits as your son has acquired would be better positioned in society than the average 16 year old. And when he turns 18, even better.


8 posted on 01/08/2005 3:15:24 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: GSlob

Actually, anyone who wants to can sign up to take the GED, and it would be no different for someone signing up for the FR HS diploma. Whoever passes gets to go on to college. Not nearly as complicated as you've made it out to be.


9 posted on 01/08/2005 3:19:16 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Kevin OMalley; GSlob

But had I not gone to high school, I'd have never learned how to tap a keg for college.


10 posted on 01/08/2005 3:23:22 PM PST by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
Well rock climbers don't make a lot but whitewater rafting guides can rake in the moola

Thanks for the info, didn't know that.

Don't think I'll pass on the info to the kid until he has a degree, LOL!

11 posted on 01/08/2005 3:23:31 PM PST by dawn53
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To: Kevin OMalley
I was talking about the ability to absorb high school curriculum on highly accelerated schedule. To do that, one needs some mental equipment. To receive way more in allotted time (there were special schools in Russia in 60's, where (IQ) selected children were studying topology and multidimensional geometry at tender ages of 13-14) takes that same equipment. It is from this stuff 14 year old college students are made.
Yes, it is doable (I witnessed it myself), but only with selected pupils; and it takes a highly concentrated effort to do it.
12 posted on 01/08/2005 3:31:49 PM PST by GSlob
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To: GSlob

I think it's doable by any kid who sets his mind to it. Even by the ones in the middle of the bell curve of aptitude.

In my current school district, the high school sent out some kind of circular which mentioned that 90% of the kids had passed the exit exam requirements WHEN THEY WERE FRESHMEN. That tells me that 90% of those kids are wasting their time. The only thing they'd be missing by taking advantage of such a program is some physical harrassment, useless peer pressure, and PC policies.


13 posted on 01/08/2005 3:42:14 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Kevin OMalley
This kind of off-topic but as I read this thread, I thought about this article.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/douggiles/dg20050108.shtml
14 posted on 01/08/2005 3:51:30 PM PST by Ellesu
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To: Kevin OMalley
Say a 8th grader can pass the GED, he doesn't have to go to high school now. Taxpayers would of spent an easy $28,000 (7000 x 4 years) educating the poor lad.

How about paying any kid who can pass the GED early a bonus to get out of school early, saving taxpayers big bucks.

I would think $4000 a fair amount.

Of course non-government educated kids would also be able for the bonus payments. They should not be denied their right to a government education.

15 posted on 01/08/2005 3:52:06 PM PST by Mark was here (My tag line was about to be censored.)
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To: Mrs Mark

I love it.

One problem I have with your statement, though: Taxpayers would [have] spent an easy $28,000 INDOCTRINATING and BABYSITTING the poor lad.


16 posted on 01/08/2005 3:54:58 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Kevin OMalley
There is a verse by Igor Guberman, I took the liberty to translate it verbatim (please take me at my word that it IS a verse in the language of the original). I'd say it is pertinent to the topic.
Environment and chance are strong and weighty,
And still genetics trumps it all:
For no matter how much one tortures them with education,
Still barrels do not give birth to Diogeneses...

Renaissance thinker Francesco Guicciardini, too, observed that "Learning inflicted upon weak minds does not improve them, and is frequently ruinous".
17 posted on 01/08/2005 3:58:18 PM PST by GSlob
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To: Ellesu

Good article. Very sad how today's kids feel they need to drop f-bombs everywhere.

As another off-topic aside, I was looking to link to an article on FR that was about some family suing the education administrators because their kid was so bright but couldn't afford to go to high school. One of the phrases in the article that I thought was interesting was the growing viewpoint (probably invalid) that sees access to education as a right which follows you, or something like that.


18 posted on 01/08/2005 4:14:46 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Kevin OMalley

couldn't afford to go to COLLEGE.

oops.

The kid had already completed his high school requirements by the age of 13 or so.


19 posted on 01/08/2005 4:25:57 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: dawn53

"Just think, instead you could've been debating your liberal Comp I teacher in college, LOL!"

That's too funny being that my best friend is a Comp. I teacher and I am debating him all the time already! I wish your son the best of luck -- he sure sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders (as well as wonderful parents!).


20 posted on 01/08/2005 4:31:09 PM PST by streetrepair
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To: GSlob

Don't forget the dumbing down of college courses, too.............


21 posted on 01/08/2005 7:16:09 PM PST by combat_boots (Dug in and not budging an inch.)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear; dawn53

And at least he's a rock climber with a college degree. He would have a better chance of being hired as a rock climber guide than the next guy over who just has his HS diploma.


22 posted on 01/08/2005 7:47:35 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: dawn53
we've told him once he has a degree, if he still wants to be a whitewater rafting guide, and it's okay with his wife (when he's married) if he makes only $15,000 a year, then it's okay with us, LOL!

On the other hand he could move to WV and set up his own whitewater rafting company and make a fortune.

23 posted on 01/08/2005 7:50:51 PM PST by WVNan
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To: WVNan

That would make him happy (maybe we should see he gets his MBA on top of his regular degree, LOL)...in his opinion, best rafting is in WV (can't remember the name of the river, starts with a G), he says it's better than the Chatooga or Ocoee.


24 posted on 01/08/2005 8:23:09 PM PST by dawn53
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To: Kevin OMalley; dawn53
Professional rock climbers need degrees?

In Geology or Physics?

25 posted on 01/08/2005 9:06:28 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum europe vincendarum (V minus 6 and counting))
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

In Geology or Physics?

Art History. Poli Sci. Humanities. Basket weaving.

Take your pick.


26 posted on 01/08/2005 9:38:33 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Ellesu

This is in a Free Republic thread.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1316944/posts#comment?q=1


27 posted on 01/09/2005 12:29:48 AM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: dawn53

If he enjoys the outdoors, and is good in math and science, point him toward Geology or geological engineering. He may have a passion lurking there.


28 posted on 01/09/2005 12:32:54 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (I'm still waiting for this global warming stuff to get to North Dakota.)
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To: Kevin OMalley

Here, they do not allow kids to drop out and take the GED. They are not permitted to take the test until their class would have graduated. THat stinks.


29 posted on 01/09/2005 12:35:34 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (I'm still waiting for this global warming stuff to get to North Dakota.)
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To: Smokin' Joe

Thanks for the info.


30 posted on 01/09/2005 4:03:26 AM PST by dawn53
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To: dawn53

Whitewater, rock climbing, (spelunking), Hmmmmm sounded familliar. Whatever he choses, I hope he loves it. Enjoying your job is worth a lot.


31 posted on 01/09/2005 5:03:59 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (I'm still waiting for this global warming stuff to get to North Dakota.)
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To: Kevin OMalley

Yes, I saw it posted later. Thanks.


32 posted on 01/09/2005 6:11:59 AM PST by Ellesu
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To: Smokin' Joe

Here, they do not allow kids to drop out and take the GED. They are not permitted to take the test until their class would have graduated. THat stinks.
***I agree. The problem is that the few parents who would like it changed in each district do not have the critical mass to effect the change. That's one reason why I think FR might be the right vehicle for such an agent of change.


33 posted on 01/09/2005 11:23:19 AM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Kevin OMalley

Bill Gates has declared American high schools "obsolete."





Public education isn't preparing teens

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1367344/posts?page=22#22



The Washington Times ^ | 3-21-05 | Michael Smith


Posted on 03/21/2005 11:12:45 AM PST by JZelle


Bill Gates has declared American high schools "obsolete." In a Feb. 26 speech to the National Education Summit on High Schools, he said "our high schools — even when they're working exactly as designed — cannot teach our kids what they need to know today." These criticisms are not new, but the fact that America's most successful businessman is concerned about how America will survive in a world that requires educated workers should cause people to take notice. Mr. Gates went on to say he was "terrified for our work force of tomorrow."


(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro/20050320-092252-1935r.htm




34 posted on 03/22/2005 8:21:21 AM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Kevin OMalley

NEA's Plan for Reducing School Dropouts/ Slavery for 18 to 21 year olds

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1759212/posts?page=191

Interesting thread.


35 posted on 12/28/2006 10:00:02 AM PST by Kevmo (Darn, if only I had signed up 4 days earlier, I'd have a 3-digit Freeper #)
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To: Smokin' Joe

Petroleum engineering has a high pay rate.


36 posted on 01/09/2013 7:57:56 AM PST by tbw2
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To: tbw2
Petroleum engineering has a high pay rate.

So does Pimping, and being a Hit Man.

Guess which two I chose.

37 posted on 01/09/2013 8:11:30 AM PST by Lazamataz (LAZ'S LAW: As an argument with liberals goes on, the probability of being called racist approaches 1)
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To: Kevin OMalley

If it is still a GED and not a Diploma, then no, it’s a bad idea.


38 posted on 01/09/2013 8:17:11 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: streetrepair
On the age difference: When I started College I was a mere 17 (it could have been earlier, but I opted not to). At the time, the drinking age in that State was 18 for beer and wine, and I was too young to legally participate in many of the more ordinary social functions on campus. Even a demanding major in a University which requires a wad of 101 courses in other disciplines leaves room for whooping it up a little on weekends, but my age created a potential snag. I looked older, was rarely asked, and ignored the law until I turned 18--something that could be a mite harder to do now.

From my Sophomore year on, it was hit the books time, as the courses in my major were generally more challenging than the basic requirements I had taken, and I spent a lot more time on lab and field assignments.

Had I been 16 when I arrived, or even 15, I am not sure things would have worked out as well. Either I would have blown off the social aspects until later in my education (when I was of age), I might have taken up less 'redneck' pursuits, or I might have decided to get in the social life when I needed to be hitting the books most.

Now, with the changes in laws which have occurred, I think I would not have done as well, and at a younger age I would not have been ready for the wide variety of attitudes, mores, and behaviours I observed even then.

I only had to drop one class because the professor and I spent a class period in disagreement, but now, that situation might be much worse.

Consider carefully, that while your student may be ready academically, there is a lot more going on there than just academic performance.

Community college while living at home with that direct influence continuing for the first couple of years might be the ticket. Just make sure the credits will transfer.

Frankly, unless someone is going Pre-Med, Nursing, Engineering, or hard science (Chem, Bio, Physics, Geology), trade school might be a better option.

39 posted on 01/09/2013 10:59:24 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Lazamataz
Petroleum engineering and.....

shucks, I just can't figure out which would be your second choice...

40 posted on 01/09/2013 11:06:36 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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