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1946 Document on Jewish Children Tells a Different Story
Zenit ^ | January 12, 2005

Posted on 01/12/2005 5:35:52 PM PST by It's me

1946 Document on Jewish Children Tells a Different Story Undercuts Tale That Vatican Tried to Keep Them From Their Families

ROME, JAN. 12, 2005 (Zenit.org).- The latest in a series of accusations about Pope Pius XII's behavior vis-à-vis the Jews and Nazi persecution seems to have little basis in fact.

The latest round began Dec. 28 when an Italian newspaper published passages of an alleged 1946 Vatican document that supposedly aimed to keep baptized Jewish children from being returned to their families.

The text, as stated in Il Corriere della Sera by Alberto Melloni, director of the G. Dossetti Library of the John XXIII Foundation for Religious Sciences of Bologna, was "a disposition of the Holy Office," as the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was formerly known. The document was said to be dated Oct. 20, 1946.

But after careful research, ZENIT discovered that the document, in fact, was not of the Holy Office and did not bear evidence of the reported date. Nor did it state what the article in Il Corriere said it did.

The document, whose original is in French, was written under the oversight of the then apostolic nuncio in Paris, Angelo Roncalli, the future Pope John XXIII.

It was meant to explain to the French clergy the instructions he had received from the Holy See, specifically, from the secretary of the Congregation for Extraordinary Ecclesiastical Affairs, Monsignor Domenico Tardini.

In his newspaper article, Alberto Melloni did not quote the archive from which the document came.

In fact, the document, in full, was published last Tuesday after being tracked down by Italian journalist Andrea Tornielli of the Milan newspaper Il Giornale.

Tornielli revealed that the original is kept in the Centre National des Archives de l'Église de France, archive of the secretariat of the French episcopate, position "7 CE 131."

ZENIT obtained by fax a copy of the original and verified that the text has the seal of the apostolic nunciature of France -- as opposed to what Il Corriere della Sera published, which attributed it to the Holy Office.

ZENIT also verified that the document is dated Oct. 23, 1946, three days later than that mentioned by Il Corriere, and that the terms of the Vatican proposal are very different from what the Italian newspaper had reported.

The original document contradicts Melloni's version. It states, in fact, that the children should be returned to their original Jewish families.

Regarding "Jewish institutions," which during those months were working in Paris and throughout Europe to transfer children to Palestine, the document states that each case must be examined individually.

ZENIT learned that the history of the document began in March 1946, when Isaac Herzog, the chief rabbi of Jerusalem, addressed a letter to Pope Pius XII in which the former wrote: "The Jewish people very much remember with profound gratitude the help given by the Holy See to the people that suffered during the Nazi persecution."

Profound thanks are given for the "thousands of children who were hidden in Catholic institutions," and the rabbi requests that these children be returned to the Jewish people.

Herzog emphasized how Pius XII "has worked to banish anti-Semitism in many countries" and concluded with an invocation: "God willing, may history remember that when everything was dark for our people, His Holiness lit a light of hope for them."

Pius XII took to heart the fate of these Jewish children and, in that same month of March, asked the Holy Office to study the case.

The Holy Office, after hearing from several consultors, prepared a document in response to the Pope's request.

In August 1946, some French bishops and, specifically, Coadjutor Archbishop Emile Guerry of Cambrai and Cardinal Pierre Gerlier of Lyon, asked nuncio Roncalli for pointers as to how to resolve the situation of Jewish children saved from Nazi persecution.

Angelo Roncalli gathered all this material and, at the end of September, sent a letter to the Vatican Secretariat of State requesting instructions.

Roncalli was answered by Monsignor Tardini, secretary of the Congregation for Extraordinary Ecclesiastical Affairs, not in the way quoted by the article in Il Corriere, but rather in the way mentioned above.

Journalist Andrea Tornielli told ZENIT that the Church in France resolved the problem in the vast majority of cases by returning the children, whose lives it saved, to their surviving families.

During the war, priests and religious received orders from the Holy See and bishops not to baptize these children. Baptism requires the consent of the person receiving the sacrament or of the parents, if the recipient does not have the use of reason. This is revealed in documents quoted by www.vaticanfiles.net. ZE05011220


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: holocaust; jewishchildren; misinformation; popepiusxii; vatican; vaticanchildren
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This is to set the story straight.

Anyone care to take back the anti-Catholic, anti-Pope, anit-Vatican remarks they made concerning this topic a few weeks back?

How long before the anti-Catholic people come out? Bet's anyone?

1 posted on 01/12/2005 5:35:52 PM PST by It's me
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To: It's me
Isaac Herzog, the chief rabbi of Jerusalem, addressed a letter to Pope Pius XII in which the former wrote: "The Jewish people very much remember with profound gratitude the help given by the Holy See to the people that suffered during the Nazi persecution."
2 posted on 01/12/2005 5:37:06 PM PST by It's me
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To: It's me
How about another quote:

Herzog emphasized how Pius XII "has worked to banish anti-Semitism in many countries" and concluded with an invocation: "God willing, may history remember that when everything was dark for our people, His Holiness lit a light of hope for them."

3 posted on 01/12/2005 5:38:33 PM PST by It's me
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To: Salvation; NYer

For your information.


4 posted on 01/12/2005 5:45:01 PM PST by It's me
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To: It's me
Jews should have fought back in World War 2. MOST didn't do anything at all to help their cause! I think many Jews do hold responsibility for not fighting back in WW2.

I support Israel now, but a lot of Jews won't do a damn thing to do anything to help themselves. Look at the majority of Jews in this Country, the U.S.A. This will be taken as antisemitic, which I am not. But many Jews have shown they won't fight for anything. Israel is the last hope of normal conservative Jews.
5 posted on 01/12/2005 5:47:25 PM PST by ThermoNuclearWarrior (PRESSURE BUSH TO CLOSE THE BORDERS!!!)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior

"Fighting back" is a bit tricky if, after escaping from the Nazis, you can only look forward to being lynched by the local peasants.


6 posted on 01/12/2005 5:52:27 PM PST by ambrose
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To: It's me
Who is Zenit? Knowing the source and their agenda (if any) is useful in evaluating any article they publish.
7 posted on 01/12/2005 5:52:47 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior
How could they fight back! Hitler Banned the guns! And you should never ever hold the victim responsible! That's like saying a rape victim holds responsibility because she shouldn't have been out that rime of night.

I don't think your anti Semitic, just VERY misguided.
8 posted on 01/12/2005 5:54:46 PM PST by LauraleeBraswell ("Hi, I'm Richard Gere and I'm speaking for the entire world. -Richard Gere)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior


Hindsight is 20/20.


9 posted on 01/12/2005 5:55:22 PM PST by LauraleeBraswell ("Hi, I'm Richard Gere and I'm speaking for the entire world. -Richard Gere)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior

Hitler's first action was to enact gun laws against undesirables. Jews weren't allowed to own guns. If you're talking about liberal jewish people, I'll agree. They're a spineless lot.


10 posted on 01/12/2005 5:56:29 PM PST by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior
I think many Jews do hold responsibility for not fighting back in WW2.

Would you say the same thing about the slaves during slave-times?
11 posted on 01/12/2005 5:57:27 PM PST by BikerNYC
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To: It's me
But after careful research, ZENIT discovered that the document, in fact, was not of the Holy Office and did not bear evidence of the reported date.

A Kinko's in Texas?

12 posted on 01/12/2005 5:58:18 PM PST by Senator Pardek
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior

What about the uprising in the Warsaw ghetto? There were also Jewish partisan guerrila fighters, from what I've read. Not many, but some.

If no one has fire arms, self defense is all theoretical, anyway.


13 posted on 01/12/2005 6:00:23 PM PST by little jeremiah (The "Gay Agenda" exists only in the minds of little jeremiah and his cohort. - Modern Man)
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To: LauraleeBraswell
I think that Jews could have fought back much fiercer than they did. How do 6 million Jewish people be killed without a significant fight? They made a stand in Poland after ever Jew there knew they were dead, but that wasn't enough.

I think Jews could have done more and I think the majority of the people in Israel agree. How can over 6 million people be killed without a significant organization or offensive fight be made?

Jews made big mistakes at that time and so have almost all other people and nations of the world.
14 posted on 01/12/2005 6:07:53 PM PST by ThermoNuclearWarrior (PRESSURE BUSH TO CLOSE THE BORDERS!!!)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior


3 million


15 posted on 01/12/2005 6:09:23 PM PST by LauraleeBraswell ("Hi, I'm Richard Gere and I'm speaking for the entire world. -Richard Gere)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior

What about the millions of others killed in the camps? They were in the same situation as Jews, without support and without arms.


16 posted on 01/12/2005 6:10:29 PM PST by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior


I'm sorry, but saying the Jews hold some responsibility for their mass extermination because they didn't fight back hard enough is an absurdity.


17 posted on 01/12/2005 6:11:45 PM PST by LauraleeBraswell ("Hi, I'm Richard Gere and I'm speaking for the entire world. -Richard Gere)
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To: little jeremiah
The Jewish people had the most ineffective opposition to any military action during World War 2 than any other ethnic groups in history. Stop acting like it didn't happen.

The uprising in Poland could have happened in many other places if there had been enough Jewish people to step up. Which there wasn't.

The fact is that most Jewish people didn't do a damn thing to help win WW2! Jews did less than any other group, with their numbers, than has any group I can think of recently.

Even the Israelis don't do enough. Maybe it's our governments fault but the the world must start doing what we should. ..
18 posted on 01/12/2005 6:19:47 PM PST by ThermoNuclearWarrior (PRESSURE BUSH TO CLOSE THE BORDERS!!!)
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To: Dog Gone

You seem to want to deny the truth to this article? Why?

Re-read the article. It seems that they did alot more "sleuthing" to uncover the truth than the Italian news did.


19 posted on 01/12/2005 6:22:59 PM PST by It's me
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior

People didn't think they were being shipped off to death camps.
They thought they were getting hot showers instead of gas chambers.
Saying that the jews made a "big mistake" by being massacred by their own country is such a ridiculous statement it doesn't even deserve a response.


20 posted on 01/12/2005 6:23:27 PM PST by bananarepublican23
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To: It's me

There has been a tremendous amount of false information (not to mention innuendo) published about the Pope's actions during WWII.

Bottom line, the Pope had little recourse to change events then as now.


21 posted on 01/12/2005 6:25:59 PM PST by Beauceron
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior

Sorry, jews might have been able to help more with the war effort if they weren't stuck in concentration camps at the time. Dearest apologies.


22 posted on 01/12/2005 6:27:56 PM PST by bananarepublican23
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To: little jeremiah

There were plenty of Jews that fought back. They were all killed. All of them. Just like in Iraq. There was no fighting back. That would just get your whole family killed and tossed in the garbage. Maybe your whole neighborhood.

How offensive these people are!


23 posted on 01/12/2005 6:30:37 PM PST by johnb838 (To Hell They Will Go. Killmore.)
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To: bananarepublican23
How long did it take to learn they were being shipped off to death camps? I support Jews but they didn't fight back at all compared to other ethnic groups through out history.

Jews knew where they were going soon. I don't blame them, I just admit they didn't fight the way they should have. They didn't and that's a fact. They could have organized and fought more than most idiots want to admit.

I do support Israel and I think they should become more violent with their war against terrorist scum. They should destroy the Palestinian opposition completely and we should allow it.

I like Jews and I love Israel but I won't deny their big loyalty problems of the past.
24 posted on 01/12/2005 6:31:52 PM PST by ThermoNuclearWarrior (PRESSURE BUSH TO CLOSE THE BORDERS!!!)
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To: It's me
I don't wish to deny what this article says. I want to know who said it. I want to know who they are. If they are essentially the news organization PR firm for the Vatican, then I don't consider it very definitive. Or at least not the final word on this dispute.

I understand the defensiveness of Catholics on this issue. But the facts are the facts, while motives are harder to pin down. Being curious about them doesn't mean I want to deny anything.

25 posted on 01/12/2005 6:39:19 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: johnb838
"There were plenty of Jews that fought back. They were all killed."


There are things worth dying for. Jews could have done more during that time. They are inherently passive like the MAJORITY of the ones here in America.

You should praise the normal Israeli loving Jews even more, while seeing the other Jews for what they are.
26 posted on 01/12/2005 6:39:53 PM PST by ThermoNuclearWarrior (PRESSURE BUSH TO CLOSE THE BORDERS!!!)
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To: Calpernia; Velveeta; Revel

Ping


27 posted on 01/12/2005 6:43:58 PM PST by nw_arizona_granny (The enemy within, will be found in the "Communist Manifesto 1963", you are living it today.)
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To: LauraleeBraswell
Perhaps the poster who thinks the jews didn't fight back ought to read about the heroism in the Warsaw Ghetto.

But then it would not fit into his false view.

28 posted on 01/12/2005 6:44:23 PM PST by OldFriend (PRAY FOR MAJ. TAMMY DUCKWORTH)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior

Have you read much history? I certainly have read less than many people on FR, but even I know that in Germany Jews had been repressed for years, tormented for years, denied basic rights for years. And most important, been denied the right to arm themselves for years.

If someone is torn apart by a vicious dog, do you criticize the victim or the dog?

Maybe many Jews just couldn't imagine how bad things would get, that the Nazis would be such inhuman beasts. And maybe other countries didn't step in to help sooner. When people want to do evil, they are often possessed of very great power, determination, and strength. If someone cannot fight hard enough against the evil to survive, are they to be condemned?

I don't think so. We are here on earth to help one another, not condemn those who suffered and died.


29 posted on 01/12/2005 6:46:06 PM PST by little jeremiah (The "Gay Agenda" exists only in the minds of little jeremiah and his cohort. - Modern Man)
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To: sinkspur
The original document contradicts Melloni's version. It states, in fact, that the children should be returned to their original Jewish families.

Looks like you're eating crow on this one.

30 posted on 01/12/2005 6:48:46 PM PST by St. Johann Tetzel (A fool can ask more questions than a wise man can answer -or- Not every question deserves an answer.)
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To: tutstar

for reading later


31 posted on 01/12/2005 6:49:35 PM PST by tutstar ( <{{--->< http://ripe4change.4-all.org Violations of Florida Statutes ongoing!)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior

"passive?"
I honestly don't think people realized the scope of what was going on before it was too late. People being made into bars of soap?
Being gassed in giant buildings like a factory?
While appreciate the support you say you have for Israel and "jews" in general I don't think you have any right to critizize the actions of the victims at the time.


32 posted on 01/12/2005 6:53:21 PM PST by bananarepublican23
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior

You're missing the most obvious tool Hitler had: starvation.

The Nazis controlled all sources of food. People only revolt when they feel they have nothing to lose, but years before that point, the Germans starved the Jews so that they had no energy, no hope, only the effort to make it to the next rationed meal.

The Germans played off the Jews' hopes well. Everything was couched in lies that led people to believe they were essential workers, they would be protected, if only they cooperated. This is human nature. The starving will go where there is food if they're told their labor is valuable. The Holocaust was fundamentally irrational. How do you live without hope?

The Jews had no weapons to fight back, no strength, no money. If they escaped a ghetto, they had nowhere to go. The peasants were as much under the thumb of the Germans as they were, and few were looking to hide people on their farm, giving them food and shelter and getting nothing in return but the possibility of a firing squad.

Look, it's a good rule of thumb for history that if you look back at a people and say all of their decisions were STUPID or COWARDLY, that maybe you don't understand the circumstances under which their decisions were made. The sad truth of the Holocaust is that the victims were all humans, all ordinary people, just like you and me. All we have over them is hindsight. In extremis, you have no way of knowing how you'd have behaved.


33 posted on 01/12/2005 6:59:23 PM PST by HostileTerritory
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior
Jews could have done more during that time.

Sitting on your fat ass, enjoying your brandy?

What kind of contemptible rat would practice revisionism on a race that was targeted for extinction?

I suppose you'd feel better if they were all shot down in the streets.

"Dem Joos, at least dey went down fightin'!"

I don't know who you are, or what you think you're accomplishing with this kind of tripe.

Enjoy your feather bed, cretin.

34 posted on 01/12/2005 7:02:42 PM PST by sinkspur ("How dare you presume to tell God what He cannot do" God Himself)
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To: St. Johann Tetzel

We'll see. Meanwhile, why are you sitting back while a revisionist reviles the Jews who died in death camps?


35 posted on 01/12/2005 7:03:41 PM PST by sinkspur ("How dare you presume to tell God what He cannot do" God Himself)
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To: It's me

Typical liberal BS. Claim a document says the exact opposite of what is written and expect it to be accepted unquestioned.


36 posted on 01/12/2005 7:08:04 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (pun my typo if you dare.)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior
Jews should have fought back in World War 2. MOST didn't do anything at all to help their cause! I think many Jews do hold responsibility for not fighting back in WW2.

I guess you haven't ever read about the battle of the Berlin Ghetto, where the jews stood off the Nazis for several day with nothing but old rifles and guts. I am not jewish by the way. The Jews in Germany were disarmed and faced not only the Government but the German people as well. Most of the people jumped on the band wagon and turned in jews that were trying to escape or hide. It is kinda hard to fight without weapons and when the Gov has a record of where you live. The Germans registered all the Jews first and then started to round them up. Siting innocent reasons for it. I am sure if they were told that they were going to be sent to torture chambers and gassed that many would probably have decided to fight.

Jews today, in Israel, fight hard and fight most everyday. Liberals say the fight to much and you are saying they don't carry their weight? Get real, read some history now and then, read some real news every day. Get a life.

37 posted on 01/12/2005 7:14:06 PM PST by calex59
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I'd like to point out that even Thermonuke's comments on this topic would be the best one would hope to find on a liberal blog.
Crying about an "arab holocaust" would've started right away, followed by outrage about the unfair slander that Islamic terrorists suffer on a daily basis in the US. By the end everyone would be pledging to either send money to Hamas or write an angry letter to FoxNews.
The views on this site are refreshing to see.
(especially when working late.)


38 posted on 01/12/2005 7:15:02 PM PST by bananarepublican23
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To: Dog Gone

Zenit is a Catholic news agency. As far as I know it is independent (not run by the Vatican or by church officials).


39 posted on 01/12/2005 7:15:37 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: sinkspur

See my tagline. Everyone knows that revisionists reviling the Jews who died in death camps is unworthy of debate.


40 posted on 01/12/2005 7:20:38 PM PST by St. Johann Tetzel (A fool can ask more questions than a wise man can answer -or- Not every question deserves an answer.)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior

My father and my uncles were all in the US military in WW2. My grandfather was a doughboy in WW1. I resent your comment and your apparent motives.


41 posted on 01/12/2005 7:25:54 PM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior
You are very misinformed, whether though ignorance or by design, only you would know.

The Zionist Protocols is the first book you should throw out.
42 posted on 01/12/2005 7:35:47 PM PST by Popman
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior
"Jews should have fought back in World War 2. MOST didn't do anything at all to help their cause! I think many Jews do hold responsibility for not fighting back in WW2."

Armchair Quarterback Statement of the Week.

43 posted on 01/12/2005 7:36:39 PM PST by yooper (If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there......)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior
Stop embarrassing yourself and this forum.

Take a couple of weeks and do a general study of the Jewish people during WWII. The one thing you will learn is they did not have a country or leadership during WWII. In Europe there was no place for him to hide except for a few brave people willing to hide them.
44 posted on 01/12/2005 7:46:14 PM PST by Popman
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior
"The fact is that most Jewish people didn't do a damn thing to help win WW2!"

Why don't you envisualize yourself standing in line to get de-loused, naked, your family members standing naked at your side, without a weapon, and completely terror-stricken, knowing that you are minutes away from a gas chamber.

"Well, I think I'll find me a gun and get the hell outta here."

Its easy for you to say what should have been done after 60 years of hindsight.

My advice to you would be to shut up. You are really making an anti-semitic ass-fool of yourself to others on this board.

45 posted on 01/12/2005 7:48:37 PM PST by yooper (If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there......)
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To: Popman; yooper; sheik yerbouty; St. Johann Tetzel; bananarepublican23; calex59


Well Really! How could someone say something so awful!


46 posted on 01/12/2005 7:51:45 PM PST by LauraleeBraswell ("Hi, I'm Richard Gere and I'm speaking for the entire world. -Richard Gere)
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To: Dog Gone

Google them.


47 posted on 01/12/2005 8:06:55 PM PST by It's me
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior

I now realize why this person has said these wierd, off the wall things. He/she wants to take the light off the issue in the article.
Get people sidetracked.
It worked.

How about addressing the issue of the Vatican and the Jewish children after the war.


48 posted on 01/12/2005 8:13:27 PM PST by It's me
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To: Dog Gone
Or at least not the final word on this dispute.

Actually, the The New York Times is a good source on this. There are books that defend Pope Pius XII that use these quotes.

But these are quotes of The New York Times during World War II.

But obtain a copy of the movie The Scarlet and the Black, and you will have a much clearer picture of what happened.

In World War II, Jewish people had the HIGHEST SURVIVAL RATE in Italy.

49 posted on 01/12/2005 8:30:21 PM PST by topher (Pray for our leaders -- let the fighting 109th Congress rip into the evil past)
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To: little jeremiah
What about the uprising in the Warsaw ghetto? There were also Jewish partisan guerrila fighters, from what I've read. Not many, but some.

If no one has fire arms, self defense is all theoretical, anyway.

I think that there are a number of reasons for this. First off, I think that there was a belief that people are basicly good, and that the terrible things that the Jews and other "undesirables" were suffering would end in time. They wanted to believe that they were being "relocated." There was also the belief, especially in Germany, that these Jews were first and formost, good Germans! The "Reform Judaism" movement began there, and one of the things that Reform Jews are known for is assimilation with the local people. I'm not saying that this is a bad thing. What I mean is that they want to "blend in," as opposed to "standing out," as the Orthodox sects tend to do.

It was only when they realized that they were going to die that SOME Jews fought back. Either through partisan groups, the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, or the revolt at the Treblinka concentration camp.

But most, as I believe would be the case with most people, didn't fight back.

Mark

50 posted on 01/12/2005 8:35:46 PM PST by MarkL (That which does not kill me, has made the last mistake it will ever make!)
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