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Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke
WRAL.com ^ | 01-25-05 | WestVirginiaRebel

Posted on 01/25/2005 8:59:47 AM PST by WestVirginiaRebel

LANSING, Mich.-Four employees of a health care company have been fired for refusing to take a test to determine whether they smoke cigarettes.

Weyco Inc., a health benefits administrator based in Okemos, Mich., adopted a policy Jan. 1 that allows employees to be fired if they smoke, even if the smoking happens after business hours at home.

(Excerpt) Read more at wral.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: 100000postsalready; cancer; emphysema; employmentatwill; freedomofcontract; johnnycarsondead; pufflist; smokers; smokersrights; stench
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To: Raycpa
Would someone who lived with a smoker test positive ?

No, it would take a smoker to attain the carbon monoxide levels in the blood. The gas is cleaned out and released through exhaling and the tester registers the levels.

A faulty exhaust system on your car could trigger it however.

61 posted on 01/25/2005 9:33:21 AM PST by Cold Heat (What are fears but voices awry?Whispering harm where harm is not and deluding the unwary. Wordsworth)
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To: twigs
True, but where does it end? When will employers start asking to see someone's private medical records to determine employability? I believe that private business is private, but then this private business is jumping over into a private individual's rights.

I see your point. However, before I was hired by the company I work for now, they did a credit check on me. Even though people go into debt and get into shopaholic stuff on their own time (usually), the company which hired me felt they had a right to check my credit rating. They were concerned that if they hired someone who didn't have control of their own finances that I could be a threat to their finances, through employee theft so they wanted to check to make sure I had decent control over my finances.

I had the right to say no and I would have also been exercising my right not to be hired by them. There is a fine line and we are all struggling with where that line might be.

62 posted on 01/25/2005 9:35:03 AM PST by Tamar1973 (Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats-- PJ O'Rourke)
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To: Modernman

People have no understanding of what "employment at will" actually means.


63 posted on 01/25/2005 9:41:14 AM PST by dmz
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To: Tamar1973

It's not about whether or not you could steal something. It's whether or not you are a reliable person who meets their obligations. That's fair game because it directly relates to your ability to be a trustworthy employee.

Not everyone who smokes gets cancer. There are statistics, but nothing that indicates Joe CEO can look into a crystal ball and decide you're going to be hooked to an oxygen tank at age 40.


64 posted on 01/25/2005 9:43:02 AM PST by Rutles4Ever
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To: WestVirginiaRebel

There's a way for people to be one hundred per cent healthy, with no illness or disease.
It's called nonexistence.


Exactly right, and how is this company able to single out smokers? Homosexuality and Obesity are far more dangerous to ones health and far more expensive for health insurance companies, yet they don't fire those to groups???


65 posted on 01/25/2005 9:45:27 AM PST by gidget7
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To: Tamar1973
Yes, there is a fine line and it's getting more difficult all the time to determine when we've crossed it as a society. I don't like credit checks as a basis for employement; but I can see their point. The policy we're talking about here, however, goes beyond that fine line IMHO. And I think that we could make the argument that the credit check is part of the slippery slope that we may rue one day.

About two years ago, my grand-nephew was born with a fatal illness that killed him within six months. Afterwards, someone called my niece to ask her about a family history of infant death. Genealogy is a hobby in my family and my mom dutifully reported that we had a history of such fatalities. I was surprised because most of the women in our ancestry are the hardy type who pioneered this country. My mom happened to remember one obscure line, but now it's in a government database somewhere. So will that info keep future generations from getting jobs? It might save a future employer insurance premiums and they have the right to hire who they want.

66 posted on 01/25/2005 9:46:46 AM PST by twigs
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To: WestVirginiaRebel

Thomas Edison refused to hire anyone who used tobacco. Nothing new here.


67 posted on 01/25/2005 9:49:40 AM PST by Luddite Patent Counsel
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To: Dat Mon
Ok, what if I work for a health care facility that is not privately owned and they pass a rule that says there will be no smoking on their grounds?
68 posted on 01/25/2005 9:52:20 AM PST by hookman
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To: hookman
Ok, what if I work for a health care facility that is not privately owned and they pass a rule that says there will be no smoking on their grounds?

The rule is completely enforceable. You have no right to smoke on someone else's property.

69 posted on 01/25/2005 9:54:08 AM PST by Modernman (What is moral is what you feel good after. - Ernest Hemingway)
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To: Modernman

Don't the taxes I pay fund the hospital?


70 posted on 01/25/2005 9:56:04 AM PST by hookman
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To: Owl_Eagle

The key there is "doesn't affect or disrupt my workplace".


Very few smokers can smoke only at home. Most have to leave their post during the day to smoke. Further, by smoking you are opening yourself up to numerous diseases that will likely impact your work performance, either through absenteeism or decreased physical capability. In all cases, the end result is less money made by the employer. Why should a private (or public for that matter, since it's my tax money doing it) organization essentially subsidize your poor health? After all, by paying you while you underperform, either through smoke breaks or reduced productivity, that's exactly what they are doing.


71 posted on 01/25/2005 9:59:29 AM PST by Little Pig (Is it time for "Cowboys and Muslims" yet?)
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To: hookman
Read my post.

I said it is not reasonable IMO, to require an employee to change their overall belief system or lifestyle AFTER the fact of hiring them.

Not allowing you to smoke on company property doesn't change your lifestyle, it may inconvenience it somewhat.

Thats the distinction.

Also, I can set a policy before hiring you that you cannot smoke...but IMO I must disclose it to you in a formal document, you must review and sign that document telling me you understand the conditions for employment. That covers me legally in the event of later lawsuits, IMO.

I cannot change the rules of the game on a whim after hiring you, unless it is for a reasonable cause. A reasonable cause would ultimately have to be decided in a court of law, should you file suit against me.

This is all JMHO, of course.
72 posted on 01/25/2005 10:01:56 AM PST by Dat Mon (will work for clever tagline)
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To: hookman
Don't the taxes I pay fund the hospital?

So what?

73 posted on 01/25/2005 10:01:58 AM PST by Modernman (What is moral is what you feel good after. - Ernest Hemingway)
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To: Modernman
Illnesses like AIDS are protected by the ADA. Voluntary activities, such as smoking, are not.

Seems to me like inviting strange penises into one's rectum is an entirely voluntary act...With consequences.

74 posted on 01/25/2005 10:03:30 AM PST by WideGlide (That light at the end of the tunnel might be a muzzle flash.)
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To: k2blader

Well this is perhaps the one thing that I agree with the DUmmies on, I saw this story at DU the other day when I was there for my daily dose of humor, of course they are predicting the end of the world over this in thier normal stupidity filled way. But I have always felt that what you do in your personal time should not have any effect on your job unless
1. You are in some way still representing the company (i.e. wearing a shirt with thier logo on it).
2. Your activity has a negitive effect on your job (i.e. constantly drinking too much and coming into work hung over, etc)
3. You demonstrate behavior that could cause problems for the company (i.e. if you are dealing drugs or even using there is a good posibility that you may have brought drugs either on your person or in your car onto the property of the business)

Anything else if it is done in your free time then so be it. I see nothing wrong with a company that doesn't like smoking refuseing to allow an employee to smoke anywhere on the business grounds, but they can't run your personal life that is a violation of your civil liberties.


75 posted on 01/25/2005 10:06:32 AM PST by bgnn32
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To: WideGlide
Seems to me like inviting strange penises into one's rectum is an entirely voluntary act...With consequences.

Few people voluntarily seek to get AIDS. Furthermore, once you have AIDS, you can't stop having it. You can stop smoking, however. That's why smoking is voluntary and AIDS is not.

76 posted on 01/25/2005 10:06:55 AM PST by Modernman (What is moral is what you feel good after. - Ernest Hemingway)
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To: RetiredArmy

Is he allowed to NOT hire illegal aliens?


77 posted on 01/25/2005 10:08:55 AM PST by B4Ranch (Don't remain seated until this ride comes to a full and complete stop! We're going the wrong way!)
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To: Modernman

Illnesses like AIDS are protected by the ADA. Voluntary activities, such as smoking, are not.

It's a company that would be brought before the courts if it fired an obese employee. Is that okay with you?

Depends on the state. There is no federal law protecting fat people. Most states allow you to fire someone for being fat, too.


27 posted on 01/25/2005 9:12:05 AM PST by Modernman (What is moral is what you feel good after. - Ernest Hemingway)
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Opps, you forgot the Queer issue. While it may not be volutary behavior to think queer thoughts, it IS to act on them.


78 posted on 01/25/2005 10:09:11 AM PST by Area51 (Illegal Immigration: 20 Million Mexicans can't be wrong.)
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To: k2blader
It's a private company. There is nothing wrong with this.

A private company cannot dictate to people what they do after business hours, only during the time the people are working and getting paid. After that, their life is their own. Or are you suggesting that these people are being paid 24 hours a day? They might as well tell their workers what clothes to wear, what car they can drive and what music they can listen too. This is an illegal firing and I hope they are sued over it.

79 posted on 01/25/2005 10:14:19 AM PST by calex59
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To: hookman

My attitude is that we are supposed to live in a civil, reasonable society, where rights are protected for all people to the greatest extent possible.

In your case, if there is public funding in part or whole of a facility, a court would probably require a designated area to be established on the grounds, but the overall ban on smoking on hospital grounds in non-designated areas would stand, IMO.


80 posted on 01/25/2005 10:14:30 AM PST by Dat Mon (will work for clever tagline)
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