Shroud of Turin: Old as Jesus?

THE NEW YORK TIMES ^ | January 27, 2005 | NA

[mdmathis6]

Then there should be no image of a face on the shroud; only on the head piece...unless the burst of energy was strong enough to irradiate an image onto the shroud thru the head piece with out burning the head piece.

[dangus]

You write as if the shroud may have been made by some sort of science-fiction reanimator energy ray. It wasn’t; it was a gift left as a sign of Christ’s divinity, just as Veronica’s veil. (Jesus’ image was also left on a cloth when a woman, known to legened as Veronica, wiped his head with her cloth.) There’s no sign of any burning or irradiation associated with any of these images.

But let’s say it was some sort of funky sci-fi energy ray: Was the burning bush consumed by its flames? No? Then why would the shroud of Turin? Was the Temple Curtain Veil protected by the masonry of the Temple? Did God have to crush the outer wall of the Temple to crack the Temple altar?

[dangus]

>> There’s no sign of any burning or irradiation associated with any of these images. <<

So no-one plays gotcha with me:

The Shroud of Turin is indeed burned around the edges, the result of being in a medieval fire. (Miraculously, the image itself was undamaged; unfortunately, the introduction of fresh carbon made accurate carbon-dating of the portion selected for testing impossible.) I meant as I wrote that there is no burning or irradiation associated with the creation of these images.

[mdmathis6]

Some accounts I’ve read state it appears to be a burning but not like an iron, more like flash concentrated energy on just the very outer fibers, in away not seen in history. The atomic bomb blasts in Japan left flash outlines of walking people against walls, but they didn’t have atomic energy long ago. Lasers can create an effect close to it but they didn’t have lasers back then. So I don’t think you and I have any real arguements here, other than I had questions about an imprint on the head napkin as well as the shroud.

Remember what our Lord said;”Only an evil, adulterous generation would demand a miraculous sign, but the only sign I will give them is the sign of the prophet Jonah.” Then Jesus left them and went away.:”Matthew 16:4

Was the shroud a part of that sign...I don’t know, but the empty tomb sure was!

[mdmathis6]

Oh I’m not trying to play gotcha with you...I’m not even trying to disagree with you. I just saw a previous post about how the head napkin could have been arranged so that the napkin pushes the hair forward so that gravity draws the napkin away in such a fashion to allow the face imprint to be burned/ or imaged..take your pick on the shroud, consistent with what they saw on the head napkin and the shroud. It sounds reasonable to me as far as the evidence presented by the ‘pro Christ’s shroud’ advocates are concerned.

It would be wonderful if the shroud were the genuine article but we live in a fallen world and even an authentic image of Christ on a cloth won’t make a difference. When Christ was alive performing miracles and raising the dead, they still managed to justify their killing of him. What do you think a piece of cloth with his image will do? It might convince some folks, other folks might think it was a work of demons in order to confuse people into venerating a piece of cloth instead of venerating Christ thru Christian living. Some will insist it was all clever forgery and will be quite convincing in their claims. Some folks will continue to scoff, the same way they always have. The scientists will all wheeze; some pro, some anti and the question will remain logically unsettled.

The empty tomb is the key...without that, Chrisitanity becomes a dead religion and all those who claimed to have met Christ or to have been healed and set free by him are all lunaticks.

[dangus]

No, I didn’t mean YOU were trying to play gotcha! I was just correcting myself because the religion forum is filled with trolls who try to twist and misinterpret everything.